Bulgarian infinitive?

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duko
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Bulgarian infinitive?

Postby duko » 2005-06-07, 8:15

Is there any?
It's really hard to find any resources on the web :(
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Postby Psi-Lord » 2005-06-07, 13:34

Duko, do you know http://www.hf.uio.no/east/bulg/mat/gram/index.html? It's worth having a look, although it won't go really, really far.
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Postby paruha » 2005-06-07, 18:33

since I'm very bad at grammatical terms ( :oops: ) I presume you mean the endings of verbs in their basic form. And that's the same as the verb in first person singular in present tense. For example, the verb 'to read' is conjugated like that:
аз чета
ти четеш
той/тя/то чете
ние четем
вие четете
те четат

and the verb itself is 'чета'.
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Postby avataar » 2005-06-07, 23:48

No, there is no infinitive in Bulgarian. It has been lost for many many many years. The function of the old infinitive has been taken by the particle да + conjugated verb. This construction is however not a simple infinitive replacement but a whole new mood, the optative-subjunctive. Examples:

Искам да отидеш и да го направиш.
want-1st-sg <да> go-2nd-SG and <да> it do-2nd-sg
(I want you to go and do it)

Не е лесно да се мисли.
not be-3rd-sg easy <да> self think-3rd-sg
(It is not easy to think)

Той да дойде.
he <да> come-3rd-sg
(HE should come)

All that applies to Macedonian as well. And if you're wondering, verbs in dictionaries are listed as 1st sg in Bulgaria and 3rd sg in Macedonia.

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Postby Rikita » 2005-06-08, 2:49

I suppose the optative-subjunctive can to a certain degree be compared with the Romanian conjunctive? If I remember right, it is said to be one of the phenomena of the Balkan-Sprachbund (no idea how to say Sprachbund in English) that the infinitive at least in some of its functions is replaces by the conjunctive... And I would use the conjunctive if translating your examples into Romanian (I am not a native speaker though, so I might be wrong). At least in Romanian though that the conjugation of the conjunctive is not 100 % the same as the indicative.

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Postby duko » 2005-06-08, 8:04

Thank you for the replies :) now it's clear, there's no infinitive (as I know it).

Rikita wrote:I suppose the optative-subjunctive can to a certain degree be compared with the Romanian conjunctive? If I remember right, it is said to be one of the phenomena of the Balkan-Sprachbund (no idea how to say Sprachbund in English) that the infinitive at least in some of its functions is replaces by the conjunctive... And I would use the conjunctive if translating your examples into Romanian (I am not a native speaker though, so I might be wrong). At least in Romanian though that the conjugation of the conjunctive is not 100 % the same as the indicative.


Yes, I think that's it. You can also find it in Macedonian and Serbian, wasn't this a Greek influence? In Romanian, using the infinitive is also correct but it sounds archaic. In Serbian is correct too, but then it sounds Croatian :)
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Postby ekalin » 2005-06-08, 12:27

The description of how it works sounded quite similar to the Greek "infinitives"[0], which are actually a subjunctive, formed with na + conjugated verb.

[0] That is, the verb form used where many other languages would have used an infinitive, especially after other verbs.
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Postby Malcolm » 2005-06-08, 16:12

Rikita wrote:it is said to be one of the phenomena of the Balkan-Sprachbund (no idea how to say Sprachbund in English)

Sprachbund is the word you use both in English and French for what you described.

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Postby Rikita » 2005-06-08, 22:22

Malcolm wrote:
Rikita wrote:it is said to be one of the phenomena of the Balkan-Sprachbund (no idea how to say Sprachbund in English)

Sprachbund is the word you use both in English and French for what you described.

Ah that explains me not knowing a different English word for it...

As far as I learned though, in modern Romanian the use of the infinitive in such phrases is correct only in connection with "to be able to" - i.e. pot sa calatoresc/pot calatori - and with other verbs it would be wrong? or did they teach me wrongly?

In Romanian, using the infinitive is also correct but it sounds archaic.

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Postby duko » 2005-06-09, 8:30

Yes, that's a safe rule, although not that strict. There are other cases when you can use an infinitive in Romanian, i.e.
"nu cutez a spune"
I don't dare to say

But it's a very good rule.
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Sprachbund

Postby Travis B. » 2005-06-14, 0:11

Actually, in English the word "Sprachbund" is what's generally used, for such, pronounced like the original German word except most English-speakers who don't know any German will not devoice the end of it, thus resulting in it being pronounced as ending in [d] rather [t]. There is the English term "language union" or like, but that's just a calque of the term Sprachbund, and isn't used much in English in the first place.

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Re: Sprachbund

Postby Kirk » 2005-06-15, 22:59

Travis B. wrote:Actually, in English the word "Sprachbund" is what's generally used, for such, pronounced like the original German word except most English-speakers who don't know any German will not devoice the end of it, thus resulting in it being pronounced as ending in [d] rather [t]. There is the English term "language union" or like, but that's just a calque of the term Sprachbund, and isn't used much in English in the first place.


Yeah in my linguistics classes and linguistics texts I've only seen "Sprachbund." I normally hear it as:

/ˈʃpɹɑkbund/

but some people more aware of German phonology will devoice the final consonant.
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Re: Bulgarian infinitive?

Postby bulgarianimmortal » 2016-12-10, 23:27

I know some guys helped you understand this but I will repeat.
The actual answer is "yes". Every single word has the infinitive form of using the way from English.

Example:
to thank -> да благодаря

"to" literally means "да" / "да се" (to be, but in partial form, which French has).

Example:
se promener (means to have a promenade/walk) -> да се разхождам

Something a bit off-topic:

Bulgarian has several similarities with English, we have a lot words that come from French and English, so note that Bulgarian is an entry-level easy to master Slavic language, although it's still in Moderate difficulty and passes French's difficulty. Still better than Chinese tbh :D

Example for similar words:

екзалтация [ekzaltatsiya] - exaltation (from the verb: to Exalt)
екзистенция [ekzistentsiya] - existence (from the verb: to Exist)
континент [kontinent] - continent
идеал [ideal] - ideal
перфектен [perfekten] - perfect
сак [sak] - sack
гей [gey] - gay
педал [pedal] - pedal
лаптоп [laptop] - laptop
компютър [kompyutÿr] - computer
синоним [sinonim] - synonym
антоним [antonim] - antonym

Some from French:

шофьор [shofyor] - un chauffeur
клошар [kloshar] - un clochard
магия [magiya] - une magie
фотьойл [fotyoil] - un fauteuil
визита [vizita] - une visite
маг [mag] - un(e) mage

Bonus easy similar by look word (photo-graphical):

бог [bog] - god (Just try to read it mirrored, d is b, o is o, g is g.)


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Re: Bulgarian infinitive?

Postby Linguist » 2016-12-11, 0:02

What's actually about nominalized infinitives which are so common in other languages? das Sprechen, el hablar, the talk... even in Romanian: vorbire, iubire etc

Does Bulgarian have that?
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Re: Bulgarian infinitive?

Postby Woods » 2017-01-26, 23:43

If the ‘infinitive?’ is “the basic form of a verb, without an inflection binding it to a particular subject or tense,” as Wikipedia suggest, then in Bulgarian there’s no such thing.

To answer the last question, there are no “nominalised infinitives,” as there are no infinitives whatsoever.

I agree with what avataar has said 11 years ago – there is a subjunctive form (I’m not sure if this is the terminology used in Bulgarian grammar books, but to me it fits), which is used to express the things that can be expressed by using the infinitive in English.


I disagree with bulgarianimmortal’s wordlist:

екзистенция [ekzistentsiya] - existence (from the verb: to Exist)

There’s no such word in Bulgarian and luckily I’ve never witnessed anyone use it.
Macedonians may do, but that would only illustrate how their language is ridiculous.

перфектен [perfekten] - perfect
визита [vizita] - une visite

These ones are clearly foreign words, people use them sometimes to create a certain stylistic effect or to sound too intelligent, but there are good Bulgarian words that would normally be used instead.


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