Short questions

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buman
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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-01, 20:21

Mehrdad, thank you so much.

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-01, 21:00

سلام

1) How do you say AND/OR write a birth date ? Is it like in English ? In French? I explain:

Do the people from Iran say "I was born in 1962" -> nineteen sixty two
OR
Do they say " I was born in one thousand nine hundred sixty two"

[or maybe both are spoken / written so ? (lit. versus coll. ?)

2) Concerning events same question. Do we say "This [event] happened in 1610" -> Sixteen Ten ?
OR
"This [event] happened in 1610" -> One thousand six hundred ten ?

3) Can we also say (French / English) "in the Nineteen hundreds" ? Then what would be the translation ? Would it be:
صد نوزده ?

Thank you very much.

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Mehrdad » 2016-01-02, 8:18

Hi,
Year is always written and said by its complete numeric value : One Thousand <and> Nine Hundred <and> Sixty <And> Two
"And" is "و " and for all kind of numbers including years, is always pronounced as "o" (formal & informal).


هزارونهصد وشصت و دو
Hezaro Noh-Sado Shasto do

Do hezaro shanzdah (2016)

من در سال هزارو سیصدو چهل و هفت شمسی به دنیا آمده ام.


1900 is never read as nineteen hundred for date,money or anything else.
1610 is never read as sixteen-ten (except in Tel numbers or passwords!).It must be read as: Hezaro shesh-sado dah هزاروششصد و ده
(Tel numbers are exactly read the same way as in English)

Happy New Year & Good Luck
Last edited by Mehrdad on 2016-01-02, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-02, 13:30

Again, thank you so much Mehrdad for a great answer ! While learning to count from صفر to هزار I had been wondering about my questions I couldn't find an answer anywhere! Many many thanks to you!!

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Mehrdad » 2016-01-02, 17:19

You're welcome, dear Oliver.

Also note these translations :
1900s (1900 - 1999) : قرن بیستم
or:
1900s (1900 - 1909) : دهه ی اول قرن بیستم
60s (60-69) : دهه ی شصت

In early 1800s ... در اوایل قرن نوزدهم
In late 70s ... در اواخر دهه ی هفتاد

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-03, 12:10

This is tremendously helpful dear Mehrdad - This is exactly what I was looking for concerning how to say/write the decades/centuries. Thank you so much for the follow up !!

Please forgive my ignorance and my questions in my quest of learning:

1) Why is it " دهه ی شصت " and not " دهه ی ششم " ?

2) Why is it " در اواخر دهه ی هفتاد " and not " در اواخر دهه ی هفتادم " ?

Thank you for all your time and your help.

, خدا حافظ
Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Mehrdad » 2016-01-03, 17:20

buman wrote:1) Why is it " دهه ی شصت " and not " دهه ی ششم " ?

There's nothing similar to 's' of 60s in Farsi. So the word 'Decade= دهه ' must always be used for its translation (whether 'decade' presents in Eng sentence or not).
And using ordinal or cardinal numbers here, is the same in English & Farsi.
He moved here in (late) 60s -> دهه ی شصت
In the sixth decade of his life... -> دهه ی ششم

And note: I haven't heard any 00s or 10s in Eng. Neither do they exist in Farsi. They're always دهه ی دوم - دهه ی اول

buman wrote:2) Why is it " در اواخر دهه ی هفتاد " and not " در اواخر دهه ی هفتادم " ?

That means 70th And like English it's not used here. Do you say 'In late Seventieth' ?
(And we often use ordinal numbers for centuries , as Eng I suppose)

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-03, 18:50

Mehrdad !! As soon as I started to read your answer I understood my big mistake: trying to follow some kind of 'pattern' (being too much into grammar) instead of understanding (comprehending!) what we were talking about. Many thanks to you...

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-05, 10:18

Listening to real pronunciations on forvo.com, Is there a rule as to why for instance the long a in " ما " (we) is pronounced "mo".... " بابا " is " bobo"... " آمد " is "omad"... " آمد " is omad etc... BUT " شما " (you / vous in French) is pronounced " shoma"

Thank you for any help to help me understand !

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby eskandar » 2016-01-10, 22:26

It's probably just the result of different people with different-sounding voices uploading recordings for those words. The long 'a' in all these cases should be pronounced the same.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Short questions

Postby Michael » 2016-01-11, 5:14

buman wrote:Listening to real pronunciations on forvo.com, Is there a rule as to why for instance the long a in " ما " (we) is pronounced "mo".... " بابا " is " bobo"... " آمد " is "omad"... " آمد " is omad etc... BUT " شما " (you / vous in French) is pronounced " shoma"

Thank you for any help to help me understand !

Oliver

eskandar wrote:It's probably just the result of different people with different-sounding voices uploading recordings for those words. The long 'a' in all these cases should be pronounced the same.

It should be mentioned that, although [ɒː] is the prescriptively correct pronunciation of <آ ـا>, it is very common to reduce it to the more relaxed [oː] in speech, to such an extent that I, as a student, have learned to avoid [ɒː] in all but a few words (where the prescriptive vowel naturally wins out over the reduced one) in my own pronunciation, except in the recitation of poetry, but even then, the reduced vowel tends to slip out if I'm not vigilant. :lol:
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Re: Short questions

Postby NightWalker » 2016-01-11, 7:19

Hi
Hardly will you hear a native speaker of Persian say, for example, Man Amædæm, meaning *I came*, because this sounds odd to Persian ears, we traditionally change (ā) to (ô) or even (û).However, in some parts of the country, it is pronounced like (å) sound as in *Aseman*

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Re: Short questions

Postby NightWalker » 2016-01-11, 7:27

As to (ما)، it is not a matter of preference, it's related to the different accents that Persian language has.

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-23, 16:13

As a beginner using the Assimil (French) method, I came across the following sentences: (please ignore the simplicity of these examples as it is aimed to true beginners)

1) آب کم است (âb kam ast )

and then

2) پسر کم آب داد (pesar kam âb dâd)

[The boy gave a little bit of water]

My question is: why is it, in #2, kam âb and not âb kam ? Thank you so much for your help.

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Michael » 2016-01-23, 16:32

buman wrote:As a beginner using the Assimil (French) method, I came across the following sentences: (please ignore the simplicity of these examples as it is aimed to true beginners)

1) آب کم است (âb kam ast )

and then

2) پسر کم آب داد (pesar kam âb dâd)

[The boy gave a little bit of water]

My question is: why is it, in #2, kam âb and not âb kam ? Thank you so much for your help.

Oliver

I'm not a native or even a proficient speaker, but I'd like to put forth my thoughts. Kam is a noun itself, not an adjective, although, as in the first example, it may seem as such when it's used by itself in the predicate. Thus, it never comes after the noun, but before it. When meaning "a little [bit] of", as in the second example, I tend to see it more commonly paired with the indefinite suffix, as kam-i; without the indefinite suffix, it may carry the connotation of "little (…, if any)". However, I may simply be overanalyzing it, so let's wait for someone else to validate what I've written.
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Re: Short questions

Postby Mehrdad » 2016-01-23, 19:13

buman wrote:
2) پسر کم آب داد (pesar kam âb dâd)

[The boy gave a little bit of water]

My question is: why is it, in #2, kam âb and not âb kam ? Thank you so much for your help.

Oliver


Hi,
My dear Oliver. You worry too much about these things. Both are correct & have the same meaning.
پسر آب کم داد
پسر کم اب داد

کارشناس کشاورزی به من گفت که به درختان کم آب داده ام
کارشناس کشاورزی به من گفت که به درختان آب کم داده ام

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-23, 19:42

Mehrdad ! Here you are again saving me :) I just don't want a parrot I love to understand as in French "peu d'eau" and not "eau peu" and in English of course "low water" and not "water low" (unless we say 'water is low'). So I am very glad to know that the place of "kam" is not set in Persian. Thank you so much for the example you provided.

As usual many many thanks to you dear Mehrdad !

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Mehrdad » 2016-01-23, 20:10

Michael wrote: Kam is a noun itself, not an adjective, although, as in the first example, it may seem as such when it's used by itself in the predicate.


ِDear Michael,
I think کم is always an adjective.
As far as I know in Eng, whenever an adjective comes after the verbs like: to be,seem,look,smell,become,... , it's called Predicative Adjective (or indirect) .
(Mary is pretty ) مری زیباست Pretty comes after noun, it's Predicative and is NOT paired with the noun(Mary)
(Pretty Mary is here) مریِ زیبا اینجاست (Mary-e Ziba) Here it's Attributive and Paired with the noun.

I think in both cases, it's called Adjective (both in English & in Farsi). Why do you call this poor word "noun" ?

And about کمی . Its ی is not exactly an indefinite suffix. The word کمی is somehow an expression exactly meaning "A little bit of..." because you can say کمی آب به من بده but you can't say زیادی آب به من بده . You can't add any ی to any other adjective & put a noun after that adjective (without pairing).

پول مفیدی :
ی is indefinite suffix : some useful money

مفیدی پول :
Completely wrong with no meaning (but if you pair them by putting an -e- in between, then it becomes : the usefulness of money)

پول کمی:
ی is indefinite suffix : a little (amount of ) money

کمی پول:
Not Wrong! With the same meaning as پول کمی

I hope it helped.

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Re: Short questions

Postby buman » 2016-01-23, 22:49

Thank you Mehrdad for always giving in depth explanations and examples. As a beginner it helps me tremendously
: thanks for all the time you take doing this.

And in fact in French we can say:

"De l'eau il y en a peu" (#1)

"L'homme donna un peu d'eau" (#2)

.... so "peu" ( little / kam ) can be set as well before or after "eau" ( water / âb ) as well.

Oliver

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Re: Short questions

Postby Michael » 2016-01-24, 0:36

OK then, disregard what I said. :P I have a question myself. I used Thackston's An Introduction to Persian as a raw beginner, and he did vaguely explain how to make "than" comparisons with از and تا, but I'm still confused as to when to use which prepositions.
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