Kurdish Discussion Group

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kalemiye
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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2010-12-27, 11:06

Ocmentos, are Sorani and Kurmanji mutually intelligible?
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-27, 13:38

kalemiye wrote:Ocmentos, are Sorani and Kurmanji mutually intelligible?

Obviously if you take kurds from most sothern dialects of kurdistan and the one from most nothern they will not understand each other easily, but as for me i can totally understand a conversation in kirmanji even though i am not a native kirmanji, an ive never even taken lessons in kurmanji..., turks make up lies to seperate us..

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-27, 13:42

ocmentos wrote:
kalemiye wrote:Ocmentos, are Sorani and Kurmanji mutually intelligible?

Obviously if you take kurds from most sothern dialects of kurdistan and the one from most nothern they will not understand each other easily, but as for me i can totally understand a conversation in kirmanji even though i am not a native kirmanji, an ive never even taken lessons in kurmanji..., turks make up lies to seperate us..

Oh and another thing, the kurds in turkey cannot understand our writing only because it is in a different script, we use the arabic script, they use the latin one.

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2010-12-27, 19:54

In Turkey both Kurmanji and Zaza are spoken. Many people is bilingual in both of them in certain areas, but apparently they are not mutually intelligible. What is your take on this?

I post a song in Zaza as I do not know if you have been exposed to this language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPwY7QsWnEM
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-27, 23:54

kalemiye wrote:In Turkey both Kurmanji and Zaza are spoken. Many people is bilingual in both of them in certain areas, but apparently they are not mutually intelligible. What is your take on this?

I post a song in Zaza as I do not know if you have been exposed to this language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPwY7QsWnEM

The case of Zazaki is different, here in Iraq we have another language related to it called hawrami,i don't know if you have ever heard about it or not, but anyway I had one hawrami friend of mine teach me some of its grammar, i was shocked to see that persian grammar was much more similar to sorani than the hawrami's was, but for vocabulary hawrami is affected to a great extent by Sorani.... the majority of the hawramis identify themselves as kurds, even though their language is not a "kurdish" language.... so i guess kurdish is more than just the language its more like the people and culture and all..... by the way i didn't get a word of that song LOL, but i think that if we try and get the vocabulary of these language standard, the grammar is not going to be that important, my father tells me that kirmanji nowadays is much more understandable than when he was a child, plus i have heard it when kirmanji is spoken with sorani words its 95% understandable..

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2010-12-28, 12:14

The Zaza language is a very controversial topic for Kurds in Turkey, did you know that? Zazas insist it is a separate language, while Kurmanji-speakers say it is a dialect :lol:. I just wanted to ask somebody from outside Turkey.

I had no idea about Hawrami, thank you for the information!

Another question, do you watch TRT6 in Iraq? I mean, for instance Turkish channels are rather popular in North-Western Iran even if Azerbaijani language is rather different. Are there any other channels broadcasting in Kurdish there?
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-28, 21:46

kalemiye wrote:The Zaza language is a very controversial topic for Kurds in Turkey, did you know that? Zazas insist it is a separate language, while Kurmanji-speakers say it is a dialect :lol:. I just wanted to ask somebody from outside Turkey.

I had no idea about Hawrami, thank you for the information!

Another question, do you watch TRT6 in Iraq? I mean, for instance Turkish channels are rather popular in North-Western Iran even if Azerbaijani language is rather different. Are there any other channels broadcasting in Kurdish there?


well I think that it has to do with the turkish government trying to seperate kurds, the hawramis are also called goranis they with the zaza come from the zaza-hawrami language branch, the hawramis identify themselves as kurds while zazakis don't, that definately has to do with turks, but anyway if zazakis don't see themselves as kurds too bad for them, we aren't gonna force them to be kurds :lol: we would be as bad as turks if we did so!
we actually have plenty of Kurdish channels probably more than 20 or so, Kurds here don't watchTurkish channels that much because we don't understand Turkish, my sister speaks turkish fluently and she used to watch them, it's only because we don't understand..... we watch the Kurdish channels or the Arabic ones, most people understand Arabic although they can't speak with it.... TRT6 is not really popular here, there are people who watch it but not many, because we have plenty of our own channels... by the way I have a question, one American teacher of mine went to turkey and they told him that the kurds in iraq are turks too, do they really think that we are turks? our languages are not related at all???!!

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2010-12-29, 9:25

by the way I have a question, one American teacher of mine went to turkey and they told him that the kurds in iraq are turks too, do they really think that we are turks? our languages are not related at all???!!


Wow, I have never heard anything like that during my stay in Turkey :?: .

I know there is a Turkmen minority living in Iraq's Kurdish federal state, but Turks don't think the Iraqi Kurdistan is populated by Turks! I remember watching Kurtlar Vadisi: Irak, and it was clear that the people they were interacting with were Kurdish, and in fact there were some dialogues in Kurdish.

When did she go to Turkey? It is true there has been a denial of Kurdish identity, but not to that extent (I am not Turkish though).
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-29, 13:13

kalemiye wrote:
by the way I have a question, one American teacher of mine went to turkey and they told him that the kurds in iraq are turks too, do they really think that we are turks? our languages are not related at all???!!


Wow, I have never heard anything like that during my stay in Turkey :?: .

I know there is a Turkmen minority living in Iraq's Kurdish federal state, but Turks don't think the Iraqi Kurdistan is populated by Turks! I remember watching Kurtlar Vadisi: Irak, and it was clear that the people they were interacting with were Kurdish, and in fact there were some dialogues in Kurdish.

When did she go to Turkey? It is true there has been a denial of Kurdish identity, but not to that extent (I am not Turkish though).

hhhhh anything is possible there, i don't know he went a couple of months ago, he told us that he was surprised they told him that when he talked about Kurds in Iraq, good that's not true though.. although they do actually say that kurds in turkey are "mountain" turks :lol:

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Meera » 2012-03-11, 21:13

Hey everyone, I was just wondering if any of you knew any good novels/books on Kurdistan? I don't have time to learn Kurdish unforuently :( But I really want to know more about Kurdish, I just read a book called Betrayed that took place in Kurdistan, but honestly it wasn't that good. Sorry I know its kind of a stupid question, I tried searching on amazon but nothing really came up :oops:
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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Limagne » 2012-03-11, 21:39

Have you heard of Mem and Zin by Ahmad Khani ?

It's one of the most important work ever written in Kurdish.

I haven't read it myself though.

But yeah, Kurdish is tempting for me too :oops:

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Meera » 2012-03-12, 3:30

Limagne wrote:Have you heard of Mem and Zin by Ahmad Khani ?

It's one of the most important work ever written in Kurdish.

I haven't read it myself though.

But yeah, Kurdish is tempting for me too :oops:


Thanks I will check this one out. Is there an english translation for it?

And yes it is very tempting, its a very interesting language and culture.
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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2012-03-12, 17:16

Meera wrote:
Limagne wrote:Have you heard of Mem and Zin by Ahmad Khani ?

It's one of the most important work ever written in Kurdish.

I haven't read it myself though.

But yeah, Kurdish is tempting for me too :oops:


Thanks I will check this one out. Is there an english translation for it?

And yes it is very tempting, its a very interesting language and culture.


Yes, I heard about it and there is a superb translation into Turkish - in fact it is the first Kurdish work ever translated into Turkish - but I heard some parts were censored. Recently, the story has been adapted into a soap opera set in contemporary Turkey named Siya Mem u Zin (meaning Under the shadow of Mem u Zin, at least according to the Turkish translation).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J75GDAFNZPo
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Meera » 2012-03-12, 19:03

Wow thanks for that, Renata! It looks really good.
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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Set » 2012-04-07, 13:09

I have a question about the orthography of the Kurmanji dialect. Is it more common to write short i as 'i' and the long as 'î'; or the short as 'ı' and the long as 'i'?
I guess this may vary between Kurdistan-Iraq and Kurdistan-Turkey.
Native: (en) Good: (de) (ca) Focusing on: (fa) (ku) (ps) Interested in: (zza) (tr) (sw)

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2012-04-07, 18:56

I havent seen such a thing in written Kurdish in Turkey :/
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Limagne » 2012-04-08, 11:30

I have a Kurdish - Turkish - Kurdish dictionary which uses ı for the short i.

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Set » 2012-04-08, 13:57

The study book I'm using at the moment (http://www.amazon.de/Rojbas-Einf%C3%BChrung-kurdische-Sprache-Lehrbuch/dp/3882269944/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333892906&sr=8-1) uses ı and i, but I think this is written from the perspective of immigrants to Germany who are probably mostly from Turkey. However, take a look at the KRG website in Kurmanji: http://www.krg.org/?lngnr=16&smap=01010000 and you can see they use i and î.

So maybe the second form is just used in Kurdistan-Iraq.
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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby Limagne » 2012-04-08, 15:18

TRT's Kurdish website actually uses i and î too, so I guess this orthography isn't limited to Iraq.

http://www.trtxeber.com/

:hmm:

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2012-04-09, 7:35

TRT's Kurdish website actually uses i and î too, so I guess this orthography isn't limited to Iraq.


I have a couple of bilingual books in Kurdish and Turkish and i and î are used in the Kurdish text, not to mention that the newspaper Azadiya uses it as well, as does TRT6. Besides, people is familiar with those characters and the spelling has been standardized [I checked a dictionary, a grammar book, a set of Kurdish-Turkish flashcards and a textbook of Kurdish yesterday in a bookstore near my place].
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"


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