Moderator:vijayjohn
cHr0mChIk wrote:So, it's pretty much the same situation as with Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, etc.
eskandar wrote:I read Urdu fluently and can read anything available in the language, from poetry to novels to academic writing to newspapers, but if you transliterated a Hindi newspaper for me, I would still have to look up the definitions of so many words that it would still be impossible for me to understand.
cHr0mChIk wrote:And, the Devangari script, this is my attempt:
क़ल्ब-ए-आशिक़ धड़क उठा इक दम,
जब छुछिड़ा तज़किरा मदीने का
आँख से अश्क होगए हो गए जारी,
जब चला क़ाफ़िला मदीने का
eskandar wrote:Most urban and/or educated Hindi-speakers will properly pronounce [z] and [sh], perhaps fewer pronounce a proper [x] though I'd say it's not so rare, and [q] seems rare nowadays among Hindi speakers - in my opinion anyway - whereas everyone can pronounce [f] just fine.
My own theory is that [z] and [sh] are maintained because they are also present in English (often the Hindi speakers who do not, or cannot, pronounce these sounds also have little or no knowledge of English) whereas since [q] and [x] are not present in Indian English they have been abandoned.
If we're going for IPA, I'd say it should be more like:
/qəlbɛ: ɑːʃɪq d̪ʱəɽək ʊt̪ʱɑː ɪk d̪əm/
/d͡ʒəb t͡ʃʰiɽɑː t̪azkirɑ məd̪iːnɛː kɑː/
/ɑːnkʰ sɛː əʃk hoː gəjæː d͡ʒɑːriː/
/d͡ʒəb t͡ʃəlɑː qɑːfilɑ məd̪iːnɛː kɑː/
If Vijay notices this thread he might be able to provide something even more accurate.
cHr0mChIk wrote:Thanks, and this is my attempt on writing this in Devangari script. I hope someone can approve:
मेरे क़ल्ब का है ये यह कहना
मुझे आप के पास ये यह रहना
मेरे मंज़िल-ए-राह है मदीना
मेरे रूह को है पाकीज़ा होना
The reason I always ask for lyrics and pronunciation is because I like to record multilingual Nasheeds sometimes in free time.
Something between /ɹ/ and /ɾ/ but more close to /ɾ/; a fricative r. At the beginning and at the end of a word, this one always occurs. 2 – /ɾ/, like Italian madre, but less stressed and softer. 3 – Occasionally, /ɹ/, the sound of an American or English r, is used.
vijayjohn wrote:eskandar wrote:Most urban and/or educated Hindi-speakers will properly pronounce [z] and [sh] [ʃ] ...
eskandar wrote:vijayjohn wrote:eskandar wrote:Most urban and/or educated Hindi-speakers will properly pronounce [z] and [sh] [ʃ] ...
Seems a bit overly pedantic to "correct" this... I was giving transcriptions (and indicating phonemes) here in romanized Urdu, not IPA, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
And Arabic too. Listen to some tajwid recitations.vijayjohn wrote:Oh OK. Yeah, I've heard [ɹ] even in Hindi/Urdu word-finally in songs sometimes, so it's not that surprising.
mōdgethanc wrote:And Arabic too. Listen to some tajwid recitations.vijayjohn wrote:Oh OK. Yeah, I've heard [ɹ] even in Hindi/Urdu word-finally in songs sometimes, so it's not that surprising.
They did? Wouldn't that just sound like <غ>?vijayjohn wrote:mōdgethanc wrote:And Arabic too. Listen to some tajwid recitations.vijayjohn wrote:Oh OK. Yeah, I've heard [ɹ] even in Hindi/Urdu word-finally in songs sometimes, so it's not that surprising.
OK. Yeah, I haven't heard too many. In the only ones I've ever listened to, they pronounced it as [ʁ].
mōdgethanc wrote:They did?vijayjohn wrote:mōdgethanc wrote:And Arabic too. Listen to some tajwid recitations.vijayjohn wrote:Oh OK. Yeah, I've heard [ɹ] even in Hindi/Urdu word-finally in songs sometimes, so it's not that surprising.
OK. Yeah, I haven't heard too many. In the only ones I've ever listened to, they pronounced it as [ʁ].
Wouldn't that just sound like <غ>?
vijayjohn wrote:Oh OK. I thought it was supposed to be IPA. Sorry about that. Fixed now.
vijayjohn wrote:Yep! I can show you if you'd like.
eskandar wrote:Please do!
It does? Huh?vijayjohn wrote:Nope! غ sounds more like [gʁ] I think.
Yes, but often you see uvular fricatives transcribed as velar and vice versa. It's confusing.I believe that in Arabic, it is supposed to be:
ر = /ɾ/ and غ = /ɣ/
mōdgethanc wrote:It does? Huh?vijayjohn wrote:Nope! غ sounds more like [gʁ] I think.
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