When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

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When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Woods » 2016-02-11, 11:00

Scandinavia has one of the greatest music scenes in the world… That’s one of the main reasons many people (including me) are into Scandinavian languages. And yet almost any band from this area continues to issue their albums with lyrics in English. The same topics and half-English, half-not-so-English (and therefore pretty dumb) sentences to the point where it becomes totally annoying to listen to the same “language” anymore. Everybody in the planet is doing it (because of low self-esteem, I guess) – but why you too? I don’t want to listen to English anymore – it’s boring, and let’s face it – only the British and the Americans (okay, and the Australians too...) are actually good enough at it to make their lyrics sufficiently artistic! I want next In Flames’s album to come out in Swedish, and the next great band that shows up to be one that sings in Swedish!

I don’t care that a few retards will not be able to understand at all what the lyrics are about if they are in Swedish (which is, of course, a language as far away from English as Chinese :) The market share for musicians is getting narrower anyway because of the far too many bands already, so it’s no longer true that if you don’t sing in English, nobody will be interested in listening to you. I think the opposite is getting truer – people want to listen to something new and interesting, not to the same thing over and over. Is there a way we get this to the ears of Scandinavian musicians, and especially to people responsible for the music industry in these countries? Janjan & Jurgen, can you help spread the word – we don’t want English, we want Swedish!!!

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English - it gets me sick

Postby hashi » 2016-02-11, 23:54

Woh woh calm down there tiger ;)

It's pretty simple really. Singing in English = larger consumer base = more money. You think most singers are in it for the music? psh, they want the moolah.

In saying that, there are a number of fantastic singers from Scandinavia that do sing in their mother tongue. Only downside is you have to hunt a little harder since they're not generally as well known outside Scandinavia :P
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English - it gets me sick

Postby Johanna » 2016-02-12, 4:00

Artistic lyrics or not, if your music is anything close to mainstream, English is the way to go unless you want to limit yourself to the Nordic Countries, and a lot of musicians would love to get a shot at a large international audience, being played on radio stations all over the world, and not only reach those who go looking for music in smaller languages specifically.

You also have to keep in mind that there have been a number of Swedish artists and bands who've made quite a splash on the international scene, and everyone has done so in English, not in Swedish, stupid lyrics and all. ABBA, Europe, Roxette, Ace of Base, The Cardigans, Robyn...

Then there were the late 90's and early 00's when Cheiron Studios in Stockholm were behind a huge chunk of the songs that dominated the charts, by for example Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Celine Dion, and even one or two songs by Bon Jovi, and it wasn't like the people who worked there stopped making music just because the studio closed its doors, last time I heard Taylor Swift was working with one of them, a guy who's only behind Paul McCartney and John Lennon when it comes to number one hits on the main American chart. Honestly, name a mainstream international pop hit from the last couple of decades, and there's probably a 50% chance that a Swede has been involved in it in some way.

If I remember correctly, all-in-all that makes Sweden the world's third largest exporter of music, after the US and the UK, something that would be impossible if everyone suddenly switched to Swedish, so not only is music in English something people mostly do be able to reach a larger audience, it's a source of pride for many - if not most - Swedes. OK, it is sort of embarrassing at the same time that the most well-known Swedish songwriters and producers on the international scene make lightweight teen-friendly pop music and not something more profound, but on the other hand, it's also pretty funny in a schadenfreude kind of way that 'we' have got to torture music snobs all around the globe for the past 20 years :P

Anyway, it's true that the way music is consumed is slowly changing, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's easier to find an audience just because it's possible for someone from the other side of the world to get hold of your work, they might have even less reason to these days since there's so much more they can find in the same language(s) they've always listened to music in. And if most people are like pretty much every single person I know IRL, being familiar with the language the lyrics are in makes a huge difference when it comes to being able to appreciate a song too. It's not really about understanding the lyrics, but rather that if you have a basic grasp of the phonology of the language in question it's a lot easer for your brain to process and remember the song than if you don't.

There are some that make music in both languages, but often what comes out is pretty different, and many even use a different name depending on the language, or they're in one band that sings in one and do their solo stuff in the other, or they're in two different bands. Some that normally sing in English have made one-off records in Swedish too, usually some sort of special project, like when Mando Diao put music to poems by Gustaf Fröding a few years ago. And then there are of course many who never sing in English at all.

So like hashi says, there's plenty of music in Swedish in all genres :) Or well, the really stupid pop that's not specifically aimed at kids is mostly conducted in English these days, thank God, that means it's much easier for me to ignore the lyrics and shut it out completely :P
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English - it gets me sick

Postby Woods » 2016-02-12, 11:08

hashi wrote:Woh woh calm down there tiger ;)
there are a number of fantastic singers from Scandinavia that do sing in their mother tongue. Only downside is you have to hunt a little harder since they're not generally as well known outside Scandinavia :P

Any names will be highly appreciated!

I've found some, but very very few. What I listen to keeps coming out in English. Example:

Favourite band: Soilwork
Origin: Sweden
Lyrics: awesome
Language: English

I'm actually okay with this one because their English is at the required level, they seem to play a lot in the USA and all of that, and they have band members from all over Europe (one guy is French and one is Dutch - I guess they don't speak Swedish). But I don't like every single band singing in English, it makes no sense.

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Woods » 2016-02-12, 11:38

Janjan, have a look at the Germans - they don't take the argument against their language, and for some reason Rammstein is the most well-known contemporary German band around the world (as far as my metalhead knows :)

They don't care the world understands English better, and - okay, maybe that makes them number four instead of number three in terms of revenues, but it also takes me closer to Germany in the long term, which is in their benefit as well!

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby linguoboy » 2016-02-12, 14:05

Woods wrote:Janjan, have a look at the Germans - they don't take the argument against their language, and for some reason Rammstein is the most well-known contemporary German band around the world (as far as my metalhead knows :)

Have they managed to outsell the Scorpions yet?
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Yasna » 2016-02-12, 14:39

It's largely about local market size. If you produce a hit in the Swedish market, you are probably not going to make a whole lot of money off of it. If you produce a hit in the German market, you have made it. So I can understand why an ambitious Swedish band would want to take aim for a bigger market.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby linguoboy » 2016-02-12, 14:43

Yasna wrote:It's largely about local market size. If you produce a hit in the Swedish market, you are probably not going to make a whole lot of money off of it. If you produce a hit in the German market, you have made it. So I can understand why an ambitious Swedish band would want to take aim for a bigger market.

Yeah, most European countries I visited had minimum local language content laws to prevent the airwaves from being swamped with English-language pop. But I don't think Spain bothered. Spanish-language bands had not only Spain (and Portugal, and the Spanish diaspora within Europe) for an audience, but all of Spanish America as well. That tips the scales.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Johanna » 2016-02-12, 20:02

Woods wrote:Janjan, have a look at the Germans - they don't take the argument against their language, and for some reason Rammstein is the most well-known contemporary German band around the world (as far as my metalhead knows :)

The language is one of the things that make Rammstein unique in an international perspective, so sure, one Swedish band could probably make singing in Swedish rather than English their thing. If everyone used Swedish on the other hand, they'd drown each other out.

You've also latched onto one well-known example, but what about Scorpions that were previously mentioned? Helloween? Or a bunch of others that were big in the 80's, like Alphaville and Modern Talking? Or Scooter from the 90's? Not to mention Kraftwerk, who have released dual versions of their albums since the mid-70's; German for the domestic market and English for the international.

Woods wrote:They don't care the world understands English better, and - okay, maybe that makes them number four instead of number three in terms of revenues, but it also takes me closer to Germany in the long term, which is in their benefit as well!

German market: 100 million people or so, it's enough to make an international career a nice bonus but nothing you actually need in order to be truly successful.

Nordic market: 25 million people. But as far as I know, music in Swedish isn't very big in Denmark, and I don't think that Finnish-speaking Finns care that much for it either, which leaves Sweden, Swedish Finland, Norway, the Faroes and maybe Iceland (and maybe, maybe Greenland, but I doubt it). So we're down to 15 million, which is tiny in comparison.

It would be nice if more bands went they way of Týr though, releasing some stuff in English and some in their mother tongue, and metal seems to be the perfect genre for it :)

linguoboy wrote:
Yasna wrote:It's largely about local market size. If you produce a hit in the Swedish market, you are probably not going to make a whole lot of money off of it. If you produce a hit in the German market, you have made it. So I can understand why an ambitious Swedish band would want to take aim for a bigger market.

Yeah, most European countries I visited had minimum local language content laws to prevent the airwaves from being swamped with English-language pop. But I don't think Spain bothered. Spanish-language bands had not only Spain (and Portugal, and the Spanish diaspora within Europe) for an audience, but all of Spanish America as well. That tips the scales.

Sweden doesn't have any such laws and it shows, at least as far as commercial stations are concerned. Or more precisely, it shows during the rather long periods when there aren't many big hits in Swedish, while at other times you hear almost as much Swedish as English, it all depends on what's hot at the moment. Public service probably has some sort of quota though, and I think it may even extend to genres to a degree.

Speaking about the Spanish American market, Roxette recorded a bunch of songs, maybe even entire albums, in Spanish as well as in English for it. That duo is also a perfect example of artists already being big here in Sweden but wanting to make it internationally; Per Gessle had had huge success with his band Gyllene Tider a few years before, they might very well be the most popular band singing in Swedish ever, and Marie Fredriksson has made a few songs that you have to include if you're compiling a Greatest Hits of songs in Swedish.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2016-02-12, 20:11

Woods wrote:Janjan & Jurgen, can you help spread the word – we don’t want English, we want Swedish!!!

My personal opinion is that every other language that I have heard in music sounds more powerful than English, so I can agree with the statement above, :) but I have no influence in such circles. :(

Is she called Janjan? How odd ... :silly:

The last few years I have mostly listened to Estonian and Russian pop, without understanding any lyrics. :partyhat:
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby linguoboy » 2016-02-12, 20:19

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:My personal opinion is that every other language that I have heard in music sounds more powerful than English

Sounds like you have an irrational animus against English.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2016-02-12, 20:44

linguoboy wrote:Sounds like you have an irrational animus against English.

It does? Well, that is a misinterpretation. I just meant that some other languages appear, for example, harder and sharper, more fit for Rock, while English feels softer and elastic, more Rock'n'roll-ish, 1950s style, sort of. I have not made an extensive survey of different languages, so my comment concerns only some continental European or similar-sounding languages.

Some pop songs in Swedish have been remade into rather anonymous and bland English versions by the same artists.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby linguoboy » 2016-02-12, 20:51

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Some pop songs in Swedish have been remade into rather anonymous and bland English versions by the same artists.

It's natural that a song you first connected to in your native language is going to sound blander when remade in English. I even feel this way about German pop songs, despite the fact that English is my native language and German my L2.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2016-02-12, 20:57

But that was only an example, and not a good one. Do you not feel that English and French sound less harsh or less sharp in their pronunciation than a number of other European languages?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby linguoboy » 2016-02-12, 21:31

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:But that was only an example, and not a good one. Do you not feel that English and French sound less harsh or less sharp in their pronunciation than a number of other European languages?

I personally feel any language can be sung to sound harsh or sharp. It's a matter more of the singer's delivery than the inherent qualities of the language.

For instance, I've noticed some of the rougher French pop bands using an unvoiced uvular fricative as their preferred reflex of /r/, which gives their French a noticeably harsher sound than the French of singers such as Piaf and Trenet with their voiced trills.

Similarly, German is stereotyped as harsh, but listen to Max Raabe or the Comedian Harmonists sing Jazz Age songs and tell me they sound any less smooth than their English-language counterparts.
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English - it gets me sick

Postby hashi » 2016-02-13, 0:39

Johanna wrote:There are some that make music in both languages, but often what comes out is pretty different, and many even use a different name depending on the language

An example of this is Petra Marklund. When she did pop/dance music in English (example), she was known as 'September' (which could equally be an English or Swedish name - but probably more English in this case), but when she decided to do more serious music - and in Swedish - she changed to releasing music under her actual name - Petra Marklund (example).
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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby TheStrayCat » 2016-02-13, 4:43

I would love to have the opportunity to listen to something by Secret Service in Swedish. But at the same time, if they had played all their music in Swedish instead of English, I most likely wouldn't have heard of them at all, for commercial reasons we have no control over. So yeah, I'd rather support lyrical bilingualism among perspective and well-known music performers. ;)

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby SayItInSwedish » 2016-03-10, 6:12

The explanation is pretty simple hand has already been posted here. I do agree though that it would be much nicer to have more people singing in Swedish. It is a beautiful language and it needs to be fed! If everyone was singing in English a huge chunk of culture would just disappear. With that said, I am not against Swedes singing in English, but I think some just don't dare to sing in Swedish because it feels too personal. As a songwriter myself, it's hard to get confident enough to write in your mother tongue. At first, all those lyrics will just feel crappy and ridiculous. Crappy and ridiculous lyrics just sound cooler in English ;)

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Re: When will Swedish bands stop singing in English?

Postby Woods » 2016-03-27, 20:22

SayItInSwedish wrote: With that said, I am not against Swedes singing in English, but I think some just don't dare to sing in Swedish because it feels too personal. As a songwriter myself, it's hard to get confident enough to write in your mother tongue.

I think it’s time for you to get past this feeling.

Believe me you’ll feel a lot more powerful if you’re able to write something good in your own language. You know how to handle it much better, don’t you? And us foreigners, if we want a glimpse of Swedish culture, why do we have to get it through English? It makes it crippled.

It wouldn’t sound less “crappy and ridiculous” if you write something crappy in a different language. It just makes it obvious for everyone. On the other hand, it might indeed be crappy because you’re not as skillful and acquainted with English as you are with your own language?


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