Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

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Cesare M.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Cesare M. » 2015-03-02, 19:08

Jag älskar skånska! :D

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby hashi » 2015-03-02, 20:18

Johanna, jag är lite nyfiken på den här videon/låten; sjungs det på skånska också? Det låter som en sydsvensk dialekt i mina öron, nog på grund av de uvular(a?) ljuden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cfntL4wJok

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Johanna » 2015-03-02, 20:36

Japp, han sjunger med skånskt uttal :)

Det lättaste sättet att känna igen skånska förutom de uvulara r:en är att de har diftonger typ överallt, norr om det landskapet har de r:en men inte diftongerna.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2015-03-07, 23:03

gfl87 wrote:
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:My speech has only the back sound [x] for back "sj".

I listened to some recording of yours, and to those of some other Swedish speakers, and it's actually roðunded: [xʷ]. ;)

I still do not understand what he means by "rounded" in this case. When I say [x] the lips are in [e] position and are definitely not rounded. :?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2015-03-18, 18:17

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
gfl87 wrote:
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:My speech has only the back sound [x] for back "sj".

I listened to some recording of yours, and to those of some other Swedish speakers, and it's actually roðunded: [xʷ]. ;)

I still do not understand what he means by "rounded" in this case. When I say [x] the lips are in [e] position and are definitely not rounded. :?

Now I have realised that it is even worse. When I say sj [x] the lips are actually in ä [ɛ] position, so they do not move when saying [xɛ:] (stjärna, skära, stjäla).
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby TeneReef » 2015-06-15, 23:26

gfl87 wrote:Oh, where can I found some recordings where I can listen to the damped i & y?


hɨ:r :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvH2dloUPM
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Koko » 2015-06-25, 0:59

Does the -r on verbs trigger retroflex allophones of following coronals?

Like, if you had a sentence such as "Vad gör du?" would you say [vaːd jøːr du] or [vaːd jøːɖu]? (also, don't judge my vowels, I don't know how to transcribe 'em :whistle: )

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2015-06-28, 18:03

Generally speaking, the r+alveolar is a very active soundchange, so it occurs across wordboundaries.

Your particular example is not the most appropriate here, since there are much older soundlaws in this case, so
Vad gör du?
is actually
Va jö(r) ru?
in central Swedish speech, where d is r in some positions.

Of course there are cases of rd and cases of thick l in this sentence, so you have several choices ... :)
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Johanna » 2015-06-28, 20:16

Koko wrote:Does the -r on verbs trigger retroflex allophones of following coronals?

Like, if you had a sentence such as "Vad gör du?" would you say [vaːd jøːr du] or [vaːd jøːɖu]? (also, don't judge my vowels, I don't know how to transcribe 'em :whistle: )

First of all, the d in vad is silent ;)

But yeah, like Jurgen says, in pronouns initial d usually turns into an r, so that makes this r + alveolar thing across word boundaries moot in a sentence like the one in your example. But if you were doing some renovations to your home and asked someone for example Sitter dörren rakt? it would be pronounced [ˈsɪtːɛ ˈɖœɾːɛn ɾɑːkt] yes.

If you can't assimilate r and the sound that the next word starts with, the r simply disappears, so if you asked Står vasen bra där? that would be [stoː ˈʋɑːsɛn bɾɑː dæːɾ]. And when the next word starts with a vowel, the r is left in peace.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Koko » 2015-06-28, 20:58

Thanks for that explanation Johanna :D

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby TeneReef » 2015-09-06, 17:31

I don't get this youtube comment:
kärna på himelen?
:hmm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfVfBA0FXc
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2015-09-07, 19:30

TeneReef wrote:I don't get this youtube comment:
kärna på himelen?
:hmm:

He refers to the speaker´s use of the now rather unusual rikssvenska front sj [ʃ] in stjärna. The front sj [ʃ] sounds almost like tj [ɕ] as in kärna. A curious thing is that she does use the back sj [x] in the placename Nässjö.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby dEhiN » 2015-09-15, 22:31

How is double t pronounced - as geminated t, or some combination of glottal stop + t? For example, in the word dotter, I'm not sure if I'm hearing [dɔtːɛɾ] or [dɔʔtɛɾ] or even [dɔktɛɾ] here.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Johanna » 2015-09-16, 13:18

dEhiN wrote:How is double t pronounced - as geminated t, or some combination of glottal stop + t? For example, in the word dotter, I'm not sure if I'm hearing [dɔtːɛɾ] or [dɔʔtɛɾ] or even [dɔktɛɾ] here.

When you say it in a sentence it's usually just geminated, but in isolation there is often something funky going on yeah. Don't ask me exactly what though (except it's definitely not [k]), and you don't have to imitate it, I think it's actually more common among female speakers.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby dEhiN » 2015-09-16, 19:41

Johanna wrote:
dEhiN wrote:How is double t pronounced - as geminated t, or some combination of glottal stop + t? For example, in the word dotter, I'm not sure if I'm hearing [dɔtːɛɾ] or [dɔʔtɛɾ] or even [dɔktɛɾ] here.

When you say it in a sentence it's usually just geminated, but in isolation there is often something funky going on yeah. Don't ask me exactly what though (except it's definitely not [k]), and you don't have to imitate it, I think it's actually more common among female speakers.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Marcellus » 2015-09-17, 0:41

Johanna wrote:
dEhiN wrote:How is double t pronounced - as geminated t, or some combination of glottal stop + t? For example, in the word dotter, I'm not sure if I'm hearing [dɔtːɛɾ] or [dɔʔtɛɾ] or even [dɔktɛɾ] here.

When you say it in a sentence it's usually just geminated, but in isolation there is often something funky going on yeah. Don't ask me exactly what though (except it's definitely not [k]), and you don't have to imitate it, I think it's actually more common among female speakers.


Sounds a bit like preaspiration, which is the normal realization of doubled voiceless stops in Icelandic and Faroese.

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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Johanna » 2015-09-17, 11:17

dEhiN wrote:Tack Johanna!

Det var så lite :)

Marcellus wrote:Sounds a bit like preaspiration, which is the normal realization of doubled voiceless stops in Icelandic and Faroese.

Yeah, I think it's our version of preaspiration, but like you say, it only sounds a bit like in Icelandic and Faroese and not identical to what they have.
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Sjösjuka sjuksköterskor

Postby Woods » 2016-01-13, 20:52

Can anyone write a phonetic transcription of the following:

Sjuttiosju sjuksköterskor sköter om sjuttiosju sjösjuka sjömän.

I’m mostly interested in long vs. short u – I guess the two u's in sjuttiosju are different, whereas the u in sjuksköterskor is the same as in sju despite the triple consonant as this is a compound word?


Off-topic:

I don't know who moved my post here, but I had trouble finding it for a while.

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Re: Sjösjuka sjuksköterskor

Postby Johanna » 2016-01-13, 21:50

Woods wrote:Can anyone write a phonetic transcription of the following:

Sjuttiosju sjuksköterskor sköter om sjuttiosju sjösjuka sjömän.

/ɧɵtːɪˈɧʉː ˈɧʉːkˌɧøːtɛrskʊr ɧøːtɛrˈɔm ɧɵtːɪˈɧʉː ˈɧøːˌɧʉːka ˈɧøːˌmɛn/

Which in what's said to be the standard accent would be something like this:

[xɵtːɪˈxʉ̟ː ˈxʉ̟ːkˌxøːtɛʂkʊɾ xøːtɛɾˈɔm xɵtːɪˈxʉ̟ː ˈxøːˌxʉ̟ːka ˈxøːˌmɛn]

/ɧ/ my be [xʷ] rather than plain [x] though, I'm not entirely sure since I don't really hear the difference and I don't speak that accent myself. Also, the -or ending may very well be /ɛr/, in fact that's the natural pronunciation, while /ʊr/ is a pretty recent development brought about by spelling.

Woods wrote:I’m mostly interested in long vs. short u – I guess the two u's in sjuttiosju are different, whereas the u in sjuksköterskor is the same as in sju despite the triple consonant as this is a compound word?

In this case it's not a triple consonant, since it's /k/ followed by /ɧ/ - ⟨k⟩ followed by the digraph ⟨sk⟩ in writing -, and that wouldn't mean anything even if they were in the same word, or syllable even, since there are plenty of cases where a long vowel is followed by more than one consonant phoneme, either if you combine the coda with the onset of the next syllable, or in the coda itself.

What's special about compounds is that syllables that are long in the individual words are kept long even if they become unstressed, something that's not permitted in other cases.
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Re: Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

Postby Woods » 2016-01-17, 17:16

Thanks!

What about ung – is it pronounced /ɵŋ/ or /ʉŋ/? (I’m using your symbols and terms, even though I’m not sure what some of them mean in advanced phonology :) I.e., is ng considered a digraph like sk?

I also thought that sköterskor would have a /ʃ/ – /’ɧøːtɛʃkʊr/ or /’xøːtɛʃkʊɾ/ as somebody presented it to me. Are these /-rs-/ and /-ʂ-/ standard pronunciation? And what exactly is /ʂ/?


/ɛr/ [is] the natural pronunciation, while /ʊr/ is a pretty recent development brought about by spelling.

What? Was it more common to hear /ɛr/ than /ʊr/ before the spread of the standard language? And why would it be chosen then?

In Danish and standard Norwegian (as far as I know) it’s nice there’s only one ending (-er), whereas in Swedish there are so many (or, ar, er) and that’s so confusing.


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