Moderator:Johanna
Woods wrote:Well, if you named yourself after this historical German person, then I think I should
Woods wrote:...I'm listening again, it really sounds like r.
Johanna wrote:Thick l is definitely seen as regional and has been ever since spoken Standard Swedish was invented; Jurgen is the only person I've ever encountered who would even entertain the idea that some groups would think that the absence of it is non-standard in any way.
Johanna wrote:That being said, there are accents of Standard Swedish in which it's quite common, but the key here lies in the very first sentence of this post: regional, it's not a sound that you'll hear on national news, and barely even on regional news in the areas where normal people use this sound. I also think Norrland is the only macro region where you can speak Standard Swedish in everything but prosody and exact pronunciation of the usual phonemes and still have thick l, around here only those who speak full-blown dialect or retain quite a lot of it in their everyday Swedish have both l sounds, but then you use non-standard vocabulary, grammar and a phonology that plays completely by its own rules too, not just an extra allophone of /l/.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Johanna wrote:I made a recording of a few words with both sounds so that you can compare them
https://www.dropbox.com/s/75pl5f6b7mseh ... l.mp3?dl=0
bli, valv, älg, stol
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Germans often think so, and Japanese r actually is similar to this sound.
Johanna wrote:Thick l is definitely seen as regional
Woods wrote:I don’t know almost anything about Japanese, but I have a friend who’s got the letter l in his name and the Japs replaced it by r when he was in Japan.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Can something objectively be regarded as regional when it encompassed the entire country except the formerly Danish provinces?
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:East Asians do not separate l from r, so they see all of them as the same sound, it is said.
Johanna wrote:around here only those who speak full-blown dialect or retain quite a lot of it in their everyday Swedish have both l sounds, but then you use non-standard vocabulary, grammar and a phonology that plays completely by its own rules too, not just an extra allophone of /l/.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Järvi wrote:Jag har läst många gånger att uttalet av sj-ljudet inte bara varierar mellan olika regioner utan också mellan sociala grupper. Jag är nyfiken på konkreta exmpel men jag hittar inga ... Känner ni till några?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
An auditory, acoustic, articulatory and sociophonetic study of Swedish Viby-i
Järvi wrote:Om jag förstår rätt, anses det främre sj-ljudet inte speciellt förnämt nuförtiden?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Inget är förnämt nu längre, och det vulgära är allestädes närvarande i medierna, men i just detta fall verkar myndigheterna ha givit vika för språkutvecklingen. Sj-ljudet var troligen främre från början (kring år 1700), men övergick sedan till ett bakre ljud. I sydsvenskan är sj alltid bakre, och i nordsvenskan är sj alltid främre, men i centralsvenskan växlar vi mellan bakre sj och främre sj beroende på plats i ordet, och därtill kommer att det främre sj ofta har sammanfallit med rs och tj.
Järvi wrote:Tack så mycket för upplysningen, Jurgen!
Om jag förstår rätt, anses det främre sj-ljudet inte speciellt förnämt nuförtiden?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
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