"s/iz -> na/v" versus "od -> do"

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Gavril
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"s/iz -> na/v" versus "od -> do"

Postby Gavril » 2015-01-26, 22:29

Živijo,

In the last thread, there was some discussion about the difference between the following constructions:

1) od [X] do [Y]
versus
2) s/iz [X] na/v [Y]

As explained in the last thread, both of these can mean "from [location X] to [location Y]", but with slightly different nuances.

I am curious which construction is more commonly used in the following contexts:

- small distances ("I walked from the kitchen to the living room")

- traveling between landmarks ("I ran from the park to the train station")

- traveling between cities ("I drove from Ljubljana to Trbovlje")

- traveling between countries ("He flew from Slovenia to Norway")


Najlepša hvala za pozornost

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miae
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Re: "s/iz -> na/v" versus "od -> do"

Postby miae » 2015-01-27, 10:22

You decide which construct to use based on what you're trying to emphasize:
  • "iz/s/z - v/na", if you want to emphasize change in location,
  • "od - do", if you want to emphasize distance between the two.
For example:
Šla sem iz kuhinje v dnevno sobo.
Šla sem od kuhinje do dnevne sobe.
It's more common to say the first one because these places are usually near in someone's home.
Tekla sem iz parka na železniško postajo.
Tekla sem od parka do železniške postaje.
Use the first one if it's landmarks you want to emphasize. Use the second one if you want to brag about the distance you run.
Peljala sem iz Ljubljane v Trbovlje.
Peljala sem od Ljubljane do Trbovelj.
First one because these two towns are near.
Letel je iz Slovenije na Norveško.
Letel je od Slovenije do Norveške.
First one as well. You'd use "od - do" if you said something fascinating like: Tekel je od Slovenije do Norveške!

I'd also rewrite your sentences in the previous thread a bit - they aren't wrong though!
Gavril wrote:Sem vozil z/od/iz Jurovskega Dola do Mežice.
Se je smejal tako močno, da je padel s/od stola.
If you drop the subject, it's more common to form past tense with participle first and then auxiliary verb biti. This doesn't apply if you don't drop the subject - for example, when you want to emphasize that "I drove" or "HE laughed".
Vozil sem iz Jurovskega Dola v Mežico. / Peljal sem iz Jurovskega Dola v Mežico.
Vozil sem od Jurovskega Dola do Mežice. / Peljal sem od Jurovskega Dola do Mežice.
Jaz sem vozil iz Jurovskega Dola v Mežico. / Jaz sem peljal iz Jurovskega Dola v Mežico.
Jaz sem vozil od Jurovskega Dola do Mežice. / Jaz sem peljal od Jurovskega Dola do Mežice.
"Vozil" if you were repeatedly driving between these two places (nedovršni glagol - imperfective aspect), "peljal" if it was a one time thing (dovršni glagol - perfective aspect).
Smejal se je tako močno, da je padel s stola.
On se je smejal tako močno, da je padel s stola.

Really enjoy these questions and discussions you're starting lately, keep them coming!

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Re: "s/iz -> na/v" versus "od -> do"

Postby Gavril » 2015-01-27, 14:35

miae wrote:"Vozil" if you were repeatedly driving between these two places (nedovršni glagol - imperfective aspect), "peljal" if it was a one time thing (dovršni glagol - perfective aspect).


Ah, I forgot that voziti was imperfective. I think there is a tendency for -iti-verbs to be the perfective counterparts of -(l)jati-verbs (postavljati / postaviti, raztapljati / raztopiti, etc.), so perhaps that is what threw me off.

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Re: "s/iz -> na/v" versus "od -> do"

Postby Ashucky » 2015-01-27, 15:27

Gavril wrote:
miae wrote:"Vozil" if you were repeatedly driving between these two places (nedovršni glagol - imperfective aspect), "peljal" if it was a one time thing (dovršni glagol - perfective aspect).


Ah, I forgot that voziti was imperfective. I think there is a tendency for -iti-verbs to be the perfective counterparts of -(l)jati-verbs (postavljati / postaviti, raztapljati / raztopiti, etc.), so perhaps that is what threw me off.
That's a good observation but it's not exactly a rule. Those imperfective (l)jati-verbs are actually secondary imperfective verbs.

Here's how it goes (it's kind of a neat chain you can follow):
1. (Primary) imperfective verb: topiti, staviti (< itself derivative of stati)
2. Perfective derivation: raztopiti, postaviti
3. Secondary imperfective: raztapljati, postavljati

The verb voziti is a primary imperfective verb, not a perfective derivative (which are pretty much always prefixed, so you can use that as a hint). But you can create such chains for many verbs, so that can definitely help you figuring out the aspect of the verb (eg. pisati > popisati > popisovati), and you can easily find the right verb to use without having to look it up in a dictionary or something.
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