Help: Lithuanized Forename

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-02, 20:23

Hello everybody, I am a new member here.

I have ancestry from around Kaunas and I have interest in a particular forename which we bear: "Mitletonas". In our family, we believe we descend from Scottish immigrants with the surname "Middleton" who settled in Poland and Lithuania, specially in the town of Kedainia and Kaunas.

We've seen this surname also written as "Mitleton", "Middletonas", and more differently: "Miklitonas" and "Mikletonas".

Could any of you help me in my research regarding this name? On the yellow pages I've found people with the surname "Miklitonas/Mikletonas". I'd like more information on these names. Are they Lithuanian-language surnames or Lithuanized Scottish names?

Also, has anyone here come accross people with Lithuanized Scottish names?
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-03, 15:20

It can also be anglicized Lithuanian name... ordinary, most probably for emigrant.
In Lithuanian last name dictionary ("Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas") is "Miklitonas", "Miklitonis", but it is of Lithuanian descent, most probably according to the dictionary.
Maybe you should get a genetic test for interpretation of your origin, at first.


Lithuanian last names as tradition is given to all people only from the 18th century. Prior to that, it is not a constant thing, and only nobles had last names. Last names in Lithuania emerged from the 15th century.
So, if your ancestors Scots emigrated to Lithuania before the 18th century, the Scottish last name most probably did not survive.

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-04, 0:36

Varaleiva wrote:It can also be anglicized Lithuanian name... ordinary, most probably for emigrant.
In Lithuanian last name dictionary ("Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas") is "Miklitonas", "Miklitonis", but it is of Lithuanian descent, most probably according to the dictionary.
Maybe you should get a genetic test for interpretation of your origin, at first.


Lithuanian last names as tradition is given to all people only from the 18th century. Prior to that, it is not a constant thing, and only nobles had last names. Last names in Lithuania emerged from the 15th century.
So, if your ancestors Scots emigrated to Lithuania before the 18th century, the Scottish last name most probably did not survive.


Thank you for your answer, Varaleiva.

This surname cannot be an anglicized Lithuanian surname because I am not from an anglophone country. My surname was already written "Mitleton/Mitletonas" in Lithuania, that's why I am curious.

Regarding the Miklitonas surname, is it common in Lithuania?
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-04, 4:33

Smaug wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:It can also be anglicized Lithuanian name... ordinary, most probably for emigrant.
In Lithuanian last name dictionary ("Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas") is "Miklitonas", "Miklitonis", but it is of Lithuanian descent, most probably according to the dictionary.
Maybe you should get a genetic test for interpretation of your origin, at first.


Lithuanian last names as tradition is given to all people only from the 18th century. Prior to that, it is not a constant thing, and only nobles had last names. Last names in Lithuania emerged from the 15th century.
So, if your ancestors Scots emigrated to Lithuania before the 18th century, the Scottish last name most probably did not survive.


Thank you for your answer, Varaleiva.

This surname cannot be an anglicized Lithuanian surname because I am not from an anglophone country. My surname was already written "Mitleton/Mitletonas" in Lithuania, that's why I am curious.

Regarding the Miklitonas surname, is it common in Lithuania?


No "Mitletonas" in " Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas" and I never heard of such a "Mitletonas". But I'm from a different region of Lithuania (not from "Kėdainiai").
"Miklitonas" in Lithuania is rare. I heard it for the first time here. But Google finds such.

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-04, 19:45

Varaleiva wrote:
Smaug wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:It can also be anglicized Lithuanian name... ordinary, most probably for emigrant.
In Lithuanian last name dictionary ("Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas") is "Miklitonas", "Miklitonis", but it is of Lithuanian descent, most probably according to the dictionary.
Maybe you should get a genetic test for interpretation of your origin, at first.


Lithuanian last names as tradition is given to all people only from the 18th century. Prior to that, it is not a constant thing, and only nobles had last names. Last names in Lithuania emerged from the 15th century.
So, if your ancestors Scots emigrated to Lithuania before the 18th century, the Scottish last name most probably did not survive.


Thank you for your answer, Varaleiva.

This surname cannot be an anglicized Lithuanian surname because I am not from an anglophone country. My surname was already written "Mitleton/Mitletonas" in Lithuania, that's why I am curious.

Regarding the Miklitonas surname, is it common in Lithuania?


No "Mitletonas" in " Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas" and I never heard of such a "Mitletonas". But I'm from a different region of Lithuania (not from "Kėdainiai").
"Miklitonas" in Lithuania is rare. I heard it for the first time here. But Google finds such.


Indeed, according to what I've read, Kedainiai had a sizable Scottish community which I believe I am related to. There were many Lithuanized Scots there, Such as George Anderson (Jurgis Andersonas).

I am sorry if I am abusing of you, but you are the only one who showed interest in my question. Would you mind if I asked you two more things?

Since you are Lithuanian, what's the meaning of Miklitonas? Despite being on the " Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas" it does not strike me as the most Lithuanian surname. Also, have you ever seen the surname "Laurinaicius/Lavrinaicius"?
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-05, 4:57

Miklitonas, Miklitonis (Mikl(-)it-on- – "Miklit- offspring"): stem miklit- perhaps contamination of mikl- (Mìklius) and mikit- (Mikità).
Miklius, Miklis < 1. baptis. name Mikalõjus (Nicolaus); 2. Lith. miklùs "nimble, agile, quick, lively".
Mikita, Mikytas < Polish., Brus. Mikita, Mikolaj.
Laurinaicius, Lavrinaicius (Laurinavičius?) (dial. č (ch), c (ts) from t' (tj)): Laurinaitis
Laurináitis, Laurynáitis (Lauryn-ait-: "Lauryn- offspring") < baptis. name Laurỹnas
Last edited by Varaleiva on 2016-04-05, 6:01, edited 1 time in total.

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-05, 5:29

Smaug wrote:Despite being on the " Lietuvių pavardžių žodynas" it does not strike me as the most Lithuanian surname.

Lithuanian surnames formed exposed to Russian, Belarusian, Polish, German languages. In addition Christian baptismal names had a significant impact. Therefore, the formation of Lithuanian surnames have not Lithuanian elements and distortions coused by different language.

Also, be aware that the in Russian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Lithuanian language was persecuted by Christian fanatics and Polish or Russian chauvinists. In Russian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Lithuanian language had no official status. Only in Prussian Lithuania situation was litle better.

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-05, 22:18

Varaleiva wrote:Miklitonas, Miklitonis (Mikl(-)it-on- – "Miklit- offspring"): stem miklit- perhaps contamination of mikl- (Mìklius) and mikit- (Mikità).
Miklius, Miklis < 1. baptis. name Mikalõjus (Nicolaus); 2. Lith. miklùs "nimble, agile, quick, lively".
Mikita, Mikytas < Polish., Brus. Mikita, Mikolaj.
Laurinaicius, Lavrinaicius (Laurinavičius?) (dial. č (ch), c (ts) from t' (tj)): Laurinaitis
Laurináitis, Laurynáitis (Lauryn-ait-: "Lauryn- offspring") < baptis. name Laurỹnas


Thank you. I found a document of one ancestor of mine in which her name was written "Marijonas Lavrinaičių Mitletonių". Since I do not speak Lithuanian, I assumed it was her full surname, but the translator we hired translated the text as "Maria Mitletonas from Lavrinaitis", that's why I was confused. Also, I did not find any location in Lithuania called "Laurinaitis/Lavrinaitis". Have you ever heard of it?

And I am aware of Lithuanian language's difficult history. It seems that Polish was considered a more prestigious language in Lithuania. I have Lithuanian ancestors who had money and probably belonged to the local bourgeoisie, and they were fluent in both Lithuanian and Polish. Sometimes they name appeared in Polish, such as "Vitkauskas/Witkowski". Based on some letters I have of them, they also spoke some German and Russian. My family left Lithuania in 1926, when the country was already independent, and Lithuania already had an official status.
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-06, 4:32

Smaug wrote:I found a document of one ancestor of mine in which her name was written "Marijonas Lavrinaičių Mitletonių".


Here the surnames given in plural genitive case (as family name), the
singular nominative of surnames is:

Marijonas Laurinaitis Mitletonis

– ending -is not -as, according to genitive case.

– nominative plural is used to name the entire family: Laurinaičiai, Mitletoniai.

Laurinaitis and Mitletonis are both surnames, now they are written with a hyphen: Laurinaitis-Mitletonis.

Your entry "Marijonas Laurinaičių Mitletonių (šeimų)" means "Marijonas of Laurinaitis and Mitletonis (families)".

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-06, 5:15

Smaug wrote:It seems that Polish was considered a more prestigious language in Lithuania.


Polish language was the language of the ruling caste (Szlachta).
Vatican intrigue resulted Lithuanian language was eliminated from the Lithuanian nobility environment.

Within a few centuries Lithuanian language areas decreased significantly. One of the most numerous of the first millennium nations (known as barbarians), Lithuanians has become one of the smallest.

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-09, 0:49

Varaleiva wrote:
Smaug wrote:It seems that Polish was considered a more prestigious language in Lithuania.


Polish language was the language of the ruling caste (Szlachta).
Vatican intrigue resulted Lithuanian language was eliminated from the Lithuanian nobility environment.

Within a few centuries Lithuanian language areas decreased significantly. One of the most numerous of the first millennium nations (known as barbarians), Lithuanians has become one of the smallest.


Yes, our ancestors were one of the last pagans in Europe. Incredible, isn't it?

Varaleiva, thank you very much for your time and for sharing your knowledge with me, it was really enlightening!

Lithuanian is a really archaic and hard language, but I do want to give it a shot. Do you know of any good sites I could get started? It seems many people are already in a more advanced level in this part of Unilang, that's why I am asking.
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-09, 6:24

Smaug wrote:Yes, our ancestors were one of the last pagans in Europe. Incredible, isn't it?


"Pagans" is a swear word. Christians used to call him those of different faith.

The ancient Lithuanians were fire worshipers. The fire was perceived as light and progress carrier.
The ancient Lithuanians worshiped their great ancestors, including the Apollo, Hercules and Prometheus.
And so, the ancient Lithuanians knew the only god "Dievas" the creator of the universe.
Christian propaganda is severely perverted world of our ancestors...

Lithuanian language is not hard.
Websites do not know.

uzferry

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby uzferry » 2016-04-09, 11:43

Varaleiva wrote:The ancient Lithuanians worshiped their great ancestors, including the Apollo, Hercules and Prometheus.


[citation needed]

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-09, 14:20

uzferry wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:The ancient Lithuanians worshiped their great ancestors, including the Apollo, Hercules and Prometheus.


[citation needed]


How much do you pay for a job?

uzferry

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby uzferry » 2016-04-09, 16:40

Varaleiva wrote:
uzferry wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:How much do you pay for a job?


? Apie kokį darbą kalbat? Citatų ieškojimą? Argumento pagrindimo darbą? :hmm:

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-09, 17:27

uzferry wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:
uzferry wrote:
Varaleiva wrote:How much do you pay for a job?


? Apie kokį darbą kalbat? Citatų ieškojimą? Argumento pagrindimo darbą? :hmm:


Kas man iš to? Kai kuriems ne tiesos galvoj ir jokie argumentai neturi reikšmės. Va, toks ponas, Česlovas Gedgaudas, net knygą („Mūsų praeities beieškant“) prieš kelis dešimtmečius parašė, su visokiomis citatomis, nuorodomis į šaltinius, moksliniu nagrinėjimu ir mokslinėmis išvadomis – na ir!?

uzferry

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby uzferry » 2016-04-09, 17:35

Na, nežinojau aš tokios knygos, bet dabar žinosiu :) ačiū :)

Smaug
Posts: 6
Joined: 2016-04-02, 20:02
Gender: male

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Smaug » 2016-04-10, 2:55

Varaleiva wrote:
Smaug wrote:Yes, our ancestors were one of the last pagans in Europe. Incredible, isn't it?


"Pagans" is a swear word. Christians used to call him those of different faith.

The ancient Lithuanians were fire worshipers. The fire was perceived as light and progress carrier.
The ancient Lithuanians worshiped their great ancestors, including the Apollo, Hercules and Prometheus.
And so, the ancient Lithuanians knew the only god "Dievas" the creator of the universe.
Christian propaganda is severely perverted world of our ancestors...

Lithuanian language is not hard.
Websites do not know.


I don't see it as a swear word. They were not christians, and they pantheon was closely related to other Indo-European religions.

Perkūnas, Dievas, Dalia and many other Lithuanian deities are found in other "pagan" Indo-European religions. They did not use those Greek names you posted, though.
"Every man dies, but not every man truly lives"
-William Wallace

Varaleiva
Posts: 119
Joined: 2014-05-08, 18:40
Gender: male
Country: LT Lithuania (Lietuva)

Re: Help: Lithuanized Forename

Postby Varaleiva » 2016-04-10, 6:43

Smaug wrote:I don't see it as a swear word. They were not christians, and they pantheon was closely related to other Indo-European religions.

Standard Christian approach.

Smaug wrote:Perkūnas, Dievas, Dalia and many other Lithuanian deities are found in other "pagan" Indo-European religions.

Another standard Christian approach. Tales, concealing the full essence.

Smaug wrote:They did not use those Greek names you posted, though.

Definitely, Lithuanian ancestors called the deities not by Greek names. I gave Greek names, as is already known in the English language. One can also mention the Lithuanian these demigods names: Balas-Balys-Balonis-Balnys-Belenas-Velenas-Dievulis-Upelonis-Uponis-Šv.Upuolis; Gaurikulis-Gaurikis-Šv.Gergauris-Šv.Jurgis; Pramatąs-Pramatėjas.

Warning. If you are hot Christians, going further towards the truth, you will lose your faith. Because historical truth and Christianity incompatible. You've been warned!


Return to “Lithuanian (Lietuvių kalba)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest