Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

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zhiguli
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Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby zhiguli » 2005-11-21, 11:38

Anybody interested in this language? Know any good resources?
There isn't much on the net or in English about Ottoman. I have some books and am willing to share, if there is enough interest.

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Postby Go:bekli » 2005-11-22, 22:10

I am interested, but my connection to Turkish in general and Ottoman Turkish in particular is too thin to sustain anything more than a minimal interaction.

I am mostly interested in names and name etymologies, a subject that has more in common with pre 1930 Turkish. E.g., there is a karateka named KadIr Dola[sh]. The modern(?) Turkish dola[sh]and the Reddhouse dola[sh] do not give me an idea how Dola[sh] Bay ended with the last name he has. I wonder if in the Ottoman Turkish the connection between the word and the name would be any clearer.

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Postby ego » 2005-11-22, 23:41

Is there anything special about Ottoman or it is just a mixture of Turkish and Persian? Is there any special grammatical feature of Ottoman, not found in either Turkish or Persian?

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-07-21, 19:59

very weird (and super-religious) site (اینترنتڭ ایلك عثمانلیجه سیته سی "internetin ilk osmanlıca sitesi" - the first ottoman site on the internet!):
http://www.siyahnur.com/osmanlica/

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-21, 22:52

zhiguli wrote:very weird (and super-religious) site (اینترنتڭ ایلك عثمانلیجه سیته سی "internetin ilk osmanlıca sitesi" - the first ottoman site on the internet!):
http://www.siyahnur.com/osmanlica/


Fascinating! I can only marginally understand it though... :?
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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-07, 10:31

found this textbook on google books:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... h&as_brr=1

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-07, 18:07

zhiguli wrote:found this textbook on google books:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... h&as_brr=1


:praise:
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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-08, 5:56

and by the way...
not too long ago i came across an ottoman-french conversation guide at my local fnac (they even gave it to me - apparently no one wants to learn to speak turkish like they did 80 years ago)

the first section of the 3rd volume:

Conversations Divers مكالمات متنوعه
Salutation سلام و استفسار خاطر

Bon jour. Monsieur, - Sabahenez khaïr olsoun éféndim - صباحكز خیر اولسون افندم
Soyez le bien venu - Séfa guéldiniz - صفا كلدیكز
Comment vous portez-vous? Keyfiniz éyimi dir - كیفكز اییمیدر؟
Je me porte bien à merveille - Pék ala boundan éyi olamaz - پك اعلا بوندن ایو اوله ماز
Et vous monsieur. - Siz nacelcenez éféndi - سز نصلسكز افندی
Très bien,Dieu merci - Allaha chukur pék eyiyim - اللهه شكز پك اییم
Comment vous êtes-vous porté depuis que je n'ai eu le plaisir de vous voir? - Sizi gueurméyélidén bérou né haldé siniz? - سزی كورمیه لیدن برو نه حالده سكز؟
Le mieux du monde - Pék ala - پك اعلا
A mon ordinaire - Daïmaki guibi - دائما كی كبی
Et vous, monsieur, comment cela va-t-il? - Zate valanezenki nacilder éfendim - ذات والاكزككی نیجه در افندم
J'en suis bien aise - Pek mémnounoum - پك ممنونم
Je suis ravi de vous voir en bon santé - Sizi sehéte afiyétdé gueurdugumden pék khochnoudim - سزی صحت وعافیتده كوردیكمدن پك خوشلاندم
Comment se porte monsieur votre frère? - Biradér éféndinin kéyfi eyi mi dir - برادر افندینك كیفی اییمیدر؟
Il vous remercie - Pek eyi dir eféndim mouamer oloun - پك اییدر افندم معمر اولك
Comment se porte-t-on chez vous? - Dévlét khanénizdé olanlar hép eyimidirlér - دولتخانه كزده اولانلر هپ اییمیدرلر؟
Tout le monde se porte bien - Hépsi eyi rahatdirlar - هپسی ایی راحتدرلر
Comment se porte madame? Hanim eféndi naceldir - خانم افندی نصلدر؟
Elle jouit d'une parfaite santé - Kémali afiyetdé dir - كمال عافیتده در
J'en suis charmé, enchanté - Pek mésrour memnoun oldoum - پك مسروز، ممنون اولدم
Présentez-lui mes hommages - Tarafe adjizanémdén kéndouciné tchok sélam édin - طرف عاجزانه مدن كندوسنه چوق سلام ایدك
Dites bien de choses - Djumlé familyaya arze khoulouçoumou tébligh bouyouroun - جمله فاملیایه عرض خلوصیمی تبلیغ بیورك
Je n'y manquerai pas - Bachim ustuné - باشم اوستنه

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-08, 6:02

صباحكز خیر اولسون افندم

صفا كلدیكز

I find the missing 'nun's a little bizarre...Is it just me? :? I would have trouble to insert them by context...Also, the French you took directly from the book, right? It reads quite funny to me. :lol:
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-09, 17:18

zhiguli, are the sentences, near french, in Azeri?
I mean, Sabahenez khaïr olsoun éféndim,Hépsi eyi rahatdirlar....

I can understand them but they've got some difference writings.

By the way, i read an article about Ottoman Turkish.
Ottoman Turkish has lots of writing styles. Like about 17 or 18. It is a really tough language to learn and it is taught for students who study Turkish Language and Literature. It is read from left but the numbers are read from right. Ottoman is indeed not a language at all. It's like a different letter typing style. The all writings (archives) before Republic was established, are in Ottoman.

All in all, one day, i will learn Ottoman Turkish. It is not a hope, i will learn. I'll learn because and i want to read the archives, i will read because i want to witness the whole 600 years period.

Some useful links:

http://www.ottomanlanguage.com/english.htm
http://www.osmanlimedeniyeti.com/makale ... index.html

(This one is a dictionary)

http://www.tarihvakfi.org.tr/
(this site gives Ottoman lessons to people. But not from internet.) :lol:

Do you want to know what is written in your grandpa's letters from his chest? Or do you wonder what is written on the Watchtowers you see?
Then, we'll wait you. :lol:

edit: i was about to forget.

Click here to learn Ottoman Turkish.
http://www.siyahnur.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=299

İnternetten çalış: Study from internet
Bilgisayarına yükle: Download to your pc

Unfortunately, the lessons are in turkish. :cry:

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Postby ego » 2006-09-09, 20:40

Tam kallesi kesile! :lol:

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-09, 20:44

ego wrote:Tam kellesi kesile! :lol:

:lol:

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-09, 21:00

Alcadras wrote:zhiguli, are the sentences, near french, in Azeri?
I mean, Sabahenez khaïr olsoun éféndim,Hépsi eyi rahatdirlar....


it's ottoman. the transcription next to the french is "french" style, as i copied it from the book (it also has transcriptions of the french words with arabic letters). e = ı, é = e, ou = u, u = ü and so on. so - sabahenez khaïr olsoun éféndim = sabahınız hayr olsun efendim.
there are some parts where the transcription doesn't match what is written in arabic script -
Zate valanezenki nacilder éfendim - ذات والاكزككی نیجه در افندم
zat-ı valanızınki nasıldır efendim - nasıl نصل here is written نیجه nece (just like azeri)

Marcus wrote:I find the missing 'nun's a little bizarre...Is it just me? :? I would have trouble to insert them by context...


the three-dotted k represents a sound like "ng" which disappeared from turkish and azeri but still exists in most of the other turkic languages. so knowledge of another turkic language can help in determining the correct spelling. taking turkmen as an example:
soňra sonra صڭره
eň - en - اڭ
deňiz - deniz - دڭیز
taňry - tanrı - طاڭری

Alcadras wrote:Some useful links:


thanks for these. most of the sites i have seen dealing with ottoman write it in latin letters only, though.
here is the textbook i use, it's said to be one of the best: http://www.netkitap.com/ayrinti.asp?id=67060

it's a shame more people don't know this language. i read somewhere that ottoman had an even bigger vocabulary than that of english - it really was that big a language. oh, well...

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-09, 21:03

Do you use that book? So, you must have an enough knowledge of Turkish to understand books.
Btw, i'm thinking of buying an Ottoman Turkish book. I think it'll cost too much but it worths.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-10, 5:56

I think I'm going to ditch modern Turkish for a while...This has more cognates. :wink: And they're easier to recognize too. :lol: This script I prefer also haha. 8)
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-10, 7:10

Marcus wrote:I think I'm going to ditch modern Turkish for a while...This has more cognates. :wink: And they're easier to recognize too. :lol: This script I prefer also haha. 8)

Get out! :twisted:
(Defol!)

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-10-10, 21:23


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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-10-10, 23:32

zhiguli wrote:http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC46265910&id=OTvHRG7w28cC&pg=PT6&lpg=PT6&dq=grammaire+raisonnee+ottomane&as_brr=1


Yes, this is easier to read and to remember - thanks once again! :praise: :praise: :praise:
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Postby jemiljan » 2007-05-17, 19:22

Hi there,

i'm using Mac OS 10 and have found a certain problem writing the letter nef ڭ on my machine. No established keyboard seems to include this character. The Azeri keyboard is Romanized- for the former soviet republic, not Azeri language in Iran. the closest I can come is found in Afghan keyboards- it looks like a kaf with a sukun semi-circle in the underside of the top stroke.

If I use the unicode character pallete to insert the letter, the results are inconsistent. In TextEdit, no matter which form of the letter I use, only the final form can be appears. Even on this board, I notice a distinct break in the letter in any word in which it is typed.

I appreciate any suggestions you may have!

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Postby kalemiye » 2007-05-20, 17:22

try with insert symbol in word using tahoma font.
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"


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