Kısa sorular / Short Questions

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md0
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2014-03-15, 16:04

Shouldn't dark L have a secondary velar realisation?
What you describe sounds like a clear L to me.
My normal /t d l/ are produced mostly with the tip of my tongue touching the alveolar ridge, but sometimes they touch the back of the upper teeth (usually for the aspirated /t:/ in Cypriot Greek).
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-16, 11:57

When I do a soft L, I really just add a "y" next to it. And for me, Y and k/g have the same tongue position.

This is something I don't do when I produce a dark L.


Phonetics isn't my strongest point, so I'm not sure how helpful I'm being here.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2014-03-16, 20:20

When I do a soft L, I really just add a "y" next to it.

Yes, I can hear a slight palatalisation in your [l].

And for me, Y and k/g have the same tongue position.

Do you mean like k/g before i,e,ö,ü, or k/g before a/o/u/ı? I was thinking of the latter, ie velar. The former would be palatal, like y indeed.


Phonetics isn't my strongest point, so I'm not sure how helpful I'm being here.

Mine neither, it's really difficult for me to learn a new sound (luckily I learnt Ö and Ü as a kid, in French, but even there, I couldn't learn the difference between [ε] - [e] and [ø] - [œ]).

How far can I go in Turkish without running into problems with my lack of dark L? I know some problems might occur, because of â and î. If there's word with a "lâ" or a "lî", when it matters that the L is soft there, but if I pronounce all Ls as soft, I'm not upholding the distinction.
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-16, 22:46

Hmm. I don't think you'll run into any problems. I can't think of a minimal pair differing from each other with only the quality of L. There is no such word. Or if there is, it's not vital. ;p

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2014-03-16, 23:02

I hope I can get it down at some point though, to sound more natural. [ɫ] and [h] are hard.
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-03-26, 19:51

What's the difference between "veya" and "yoksa"? Is "veya" inclusive and "yoksa" exclusive?

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-26, 21:21

I'm not sure what is intended with "inclusive" and "exclusive", but I'll try to summarize their use:

We use "veya / ya da" in affirmative and negative sentences; "yoksa" in questions, but only if you're asking the words connected with this "or". Observe:

1. Austin'e veya Wyoming'e gidecek. - She will go to Austin or Wyoming.
2. Austin'e veya Wyoming'e gitmeyecek. - She won't go to Austin or Wyoming.
3. Austin'e mi yoksa Wyoming'e mi gidecek? - Where is she going: Austin or Wyoming?
4. Austin'e veya Wyoming'e gidecek mi? - Will she go to Austin or Wyoming, or not?
5. Austin'e veya Wyoming'e bugün mü gidecek? - She will go to Austin or Wyoming, but is it today?

Sentences 1 and 2 are understood I guess. Number 3, 4 and 5 are all questions, but only number 3 requires "yoksa", because that's the only sentence where you actually ask "Is it X or Y?". In sentences 4 and 5, we know that it's either going to be x or y; we're not asking which one it is. In Sentence 4 we're asking if she will go or not to either of these places, and in sentence 5, we want to know if it's today or not.

----

"Yoksa" can also mean "otherwise":

"Sıkı giyin; yoksa hasta olursun." - Dress warmly; otherwise you'll get sick.

It's not interchangeable with "veya / ya da" in this case either.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-03-27, 0:30

OK, yeah, that sounds pretty much like what I was thinking. So basically, if I ask "A mi yoksa B mi?" I presumably expect the answer to be either A or B (and not some third answer C). But if I ask "A veya B mi?" I'm basically asking, "Is the answer one of either A or B? (Or is it neither A nor B but rather some third answer C?)"

I hope that makes at least some sense! And I have to say, I love your examples. :lol:

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-27, 0:54

Yep, you've learnt it!

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-03-27, 19:27

Teşekkürler! :D

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby modus.irrealis » 2014-07-24, 13:12

Does "bunu çok sevmiyorum" mean "I very much don't like this" or "I don't like this very much" or is it ambiguous? How do you express this difference in Turkish?

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2014-07-25, 8:01

As far as I know, it means "I don't like this very much". To express this other meaning you can say "Bunu hiç sevmiyorum".

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby modus.irrealis » 2014-07-25, 10:02

Thanks.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Turco » 2014-08-07, 21:38

Bir sorum var

How does it work the imperative mood in 1st person plural

I know that for the 2nd p.s. I've just to put the infinitive root and for 2nd p.pl. I have to ad -ünüz , -unuz , -iniz or -ınız
For example for "almak" (to buy) it should be
Al! (Buy! 2nd p.s.)
Alıniz! or Alız! (Buy! 2nd p.pl.)

But how can I say it in 1st p.pl?

Teşekkür ederim!

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-07, 22:03

Turco wrote:I know that for the 2nd p.s. I've just to put the infinitive root and for 2nd p.pl. I have to ad -ünüz , -unuz , -iniz or -ınız
For example for "almak" (to buy) it should be
Al! (Buy! 2nd p.s.)
Alıniz! or Alız! (Buy! 2nd p.pl.)

But how can I say it in 1st p.pl?


The ending you want is -alım/-elim. If the verb stem ends in a vowel, you insert y before the first vowel of the ending.

Alalım! Let's buy!
Söyleyelim! Let's sing!
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Turco » 2014-08-07, 23:15

linguoboy wrote:
Turco wrote:I know that for the 2nd p.s. I've just to put the infinitive root and for 2nd p.pl. I have to ad -ünüz , -unuz , -iniz or -ınız
For example for "almak" (to buy) it should be
Al! (Buy! 2nd p.s.)
Alıniz! or Alız! (Buy! 2nd p.pl.)

But how can I say it in 1st p.pl?


The ending you want is -alım/-elim. If the verb stem ends in a vowel, you insert y before the first vowel of the ending.

Alalım! Let's buy!
Söyleyelim! Let's sing!


Oh, tamam teşekkür ederim :)

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2014-09-02, 8:35

What's the difference between iç, içeri, içerisi and which one should I use in a sentence like:
If I call a service method, and from inside of it I call another method, can it lead to a problem? (in a programming context)

Bir servis metodu çağırırken içinden/içeriden/içerisinden başka bir metot çağırırsam problem çıkmaz mı?

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-09-02, 11:18


This word can, although rarely, be an adjective meaning inner or internal:
İç organlar (internal organs); iç savaş (civil war) [inner war]

But mainly it's a noun, meaning the inside. As it's a noun it's very flexible with the declensions, and especially izafet:
kavuniçi (a colour); evin içi güzel (The house is beautiful on the inside, [lit.The inside of the house is beautiful])

When it's izafet: X'in içi, it is interchangeable with içerisi, often pronounced 'içærsi': Evin içerisi güzel.

If you don't want to mention the X in the izafet, you can no longer use 'içi'.
Evin içi nasıl? :yep:
Evin içerisi nasıl? :yep:
İçerisi nasıl? :yep:
İçi nasıl? :nope: :nope: :nope:

içeri
This word is an adverb of location in the dative case, i.e.; into.
İçeri gel. → Come in.
İçeri bak. → Look inside.
İçeri götür. → Take it and go in.

You can also use içeriye in all these sentences.

Neither içeri nor içeriye are izafet-able. Therefore you'd need the word if you want to specify 'into what': Evin içine girdim. I went in the house (lit. I went to the inside of the house).
Since it's an izafet, you can also say: Evin içerisine girdim.

By the way, if you're looking inside through a frame or an object, then you use the ablative:
Kapıdan içeri(ye) baktım. (I looked through the door and peeked inside).


Bir servis metodu çağırırken içinden/içeriden/içerisinden başka bir metot çağırırsam problem çıkmaz mı?


İçinden and içerisinden are clear. But 'içeriden' is more context-dependant. If both parties are well aware of what's going on, then 'içeriden' is also usable, but the immediate sense of this word is: "From the other room." (In the Turkish mentality, when in a house, the people or things that are in a different room than yours are referred to as içeride).

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2014-09-02, 15:24

Thanks! The same applies to dış/dışarı/dışarısı, right?

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-09-02, 16:09

Yep.


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