Kısa sorular / Short Questions

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md0
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2013-09-25, 13:57

It's difficult to think of it as a question there. But it could be that Ben- was transferred as mu to fit Cypriot Greek grammar, in which clitic personal pronouns (like "mu" is) go after the verb (or in this case, imiş, which is more of a particle, not a verb). Still, it is peculiar that it's always first person singular: you can't say "imişi su" (2nd p. sig.) or "imişi mas" (1st p.pl.). But then again you have "adjapis su" which only occurs with su (which looks like the 2nd p. sig). they really don't play by any known rule. (but that question is not related to this forum)

Thanks fie the clarification though.
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby riwnodennyk » 2013-09-27, 14:38

Dostlar! Ukraynaca dilinde öyle kelime var: "хемелю-хамелю" [hamelü-hamelü]. Günümüzde popüler değildir, ama yine de.
Türk veya Qırımtatat kökenli benziyor mu? Belki "hamile-hamile" ya da böyle bir şey?
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2013-09-27, 15:08

Merak ettiğin kelime şu mu?
http://hrinchenko.com/slovar/znachenie- ... show_point

Onun bir Türk kelimesi olup olmadığını bilmiyorum maalesef.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2013-09-28, 23:42

If anyone's familiar with Cypriot Turkish:
Is the word 'ziligurti' still used? It appears in my dictionary to mean "Shut up" (and it is used like that in Cypriot Greek), but I didn't find any evidence to support that ziligurti is still used as a slang in northern Cyprus. So if anyone knows about (or if you have heard of this word in Turkey - probably in the south?)
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby kalemiye » 2013-10-10, 6:41

I asked a friend. Nowadays it is a curse used to answer somebody who is really annoying you. "Ziligurti çıkar" is the expression, and conveys a similar meaning to the more commonly used "allah belani versin". So I guess somehow it means something like "shut up" :D.
------
How would you translate "bilgi edinilmesi hususunu rica ederim"?
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2013-10-11, 10:59

How would you translate "bilgi edinilmesi hususunu rica ederim"?

It looks like a curious way of saying "I request more information". Can you ask someone and let us know? :)

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Question on stress

Postby Psi-Lord » 2013-10-16, 0:51

I honestly think I may’ve missed something on the topic around the UniLang forum, because, from what I’ve read so far, this does seem to be a somewhat major topic that is poorly explored in learners’ materials. In short – how problematic can learners around here say it is to acquire proper stress in Turkish?

Sure, the topic does show up in most materials, but the overall impression I get is that authors don’t give it as much attention as they could, or even try to pass the idea that it’s simpler and more uniform than it really is – an impression that actually got stronger after I read a really interesting paper called The phonological word and stress assignment in Turkish (available online here).

One special reason for me to wonder about it is that I don’t trust my ears when it comes to studying languages, so that playing by the ear alone, with no written theory to follow or to support me, is really complicated. :( As a practical example, I’m still wondering about which syllable to stress in anne – materials seem to imply it’s the first, but the Güncel Türkçe Sözlük doesn’t mark it as having a non-final stress, and, when I hear it in audio files, I can’t be sure myself either…
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Re: Question on stress

Postby voron » 2013-10-16, 1:46

Psi-Lord wrote:I honestly think I may’ve missed something on the topic around the UniLang forum, because, from what I’ve read so far, this does seem to be a somewhat major topic that is poorly explored in learners’ materials. In short – how problematic can learners around here say it is to acquire proper stress in Turkish?

I think you are exaggerating the problem a bit. It's not a simple topic by any means, but several basic rules is a good enough approximation, and every book that I used so far listed these rules, e.g.
'yapma (don't do) - yap'ma (doing)
'benim (I am) - be'nim (my)
etc

There is a number of other topics in Turkish (or in any other language as a matter of fact) which are quite complicated and which are only given in an approximated form in traditional textbooks. The stress issue is just one of them.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby kalemiye » 2013-10-16, 17:34

voron wrote:
How would you translate "bilgi edinilmesi hususunu rica ederim"?

It looks like a curious way of saying "I request more information". Can you ask someone and let us know? :)


Actually in the context it was written, it means something like "Consider yourself as informed" , but apparently it is grammatically wrong. Somebody trying to sound smart, i guess :D
"Demə Məcnuna dəli, bəlkədə Leyla dəlidir
Eşq olan yerdə bütün aqilü dana dəlidir.
"

Not available
"Düşdü yenə dəli könlüm gözlərinin xəyalinə,
Kim nə bilir bu könlümün fikri nədir, xəyalini.
"

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby TheStrayCat » 2014-01-06, 20:18

Merhabalar!

Küçük bir sorum var.

Is there any difference in using beyaz/kırmızı/siyah (preferred by my coursebook) and ak/kızıl/kara (derived from Old Turkic)?
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2014-01-07, 1:45

Beyaz/kırmızı/siyah is what you would generally use when telling a color of an object, such as a car, a shirt, a house's paint etc.

The use of ak/kızıl/kara is more idiomatic and for practical purposes you just have to remember the expressions and proper names where they occur.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby TheStrayCat » 2014-01-07, 18:01

Thank you!

So are the forms ak/kızıl/kara met anywhere in modern speech apart from idiomatic expressions and proper names?
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby voron » 2014-01-08, 16:10

I'd say that they are not used anywhere apart from set phrases, but the latter are numerous, especially in case of kara. To name a few:
kara gözlü - dark eyed
kara kara düşünmek - to think in a depressed way, to think dark thoughts
kara kedi - black cat (siyah kedi is also possible)
etc

To help think about these expressions systematically, this can be useful:
However, when we are talking about dark, sky, eye color, or a black dirt, we use more commonly "kara".
e.g. kara gözlü, kara kaşlı
hava karardı (here it is not the word "kara" but the verb originating from it:kararmak)
ellerin kara olmuş! ("your hands became black!" e.g. after a child played outside)
etc, etc...

From: http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_42320

Also, the link above suggests that kara is more often used in Anatolian dialects.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-01-31, 7:14

What's the difference between memnun and mutlu?

I mean, I know you can say memnun oldum, but you can't say ?mutlu oldum to mean 'nice to meet you', can you? Also, it seems that memnun is of Arabic origin, and I guess mutlu isn't. Is it? :lol: Other than that, I don't have the faintest idea what the difference might be.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-02-02, 22:22

Well, I'd say that mutlu is 'happy', while memnun rather equates to satisfied or glad.

"Memnun oldum" is an established phrase to mean "nice to meet you". If you say "mutlu oldum", it wouldn't make immediate sense. However, you can perfectly build a full sentence: Tanıştığımız için mutluyum.

Other than that... well, whenever you feel you can say "glad", use 'memnun'.
For instance, would you say: "I used to be very glad when I was a little kid." ? I'm not a native speaker of English, but I'm sure I would never use "glad" in this context, as I would never use "memnun" in the Turkish sentence. I'd rather use "happy/mutlu".

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-02-17, 17:55

Teşekkür ederim. That makes a lot more sense now. I think Teach Yourself Turkish made a mistake by translating both words as 'happy'. (I've recently begun to realize how many mistakes these books in the Teach Yourself series have). :ohwell:

Ektoras wrote:For instance, would you say: "I used to be very glad when I was a little kid." ? I'm not a native speaker of English, but I'm sure I would never use "glad" in this context, as I would never use "memnun" in the Turkish sentence. I'd rather use "happy/mutlu".

Yeah, same here. I'd say 'happy', not 'glad'. :)

"Memnun oldum" is an established phrase to mean "nice to meet you". If you say "mutlu oldum", it wouldn't make immediate sense. However, you can perfectly build a full sentence: Tanıştığımız için mutluyum.

Yeah, here also, I'd say the same goes for 'happy' in English. (You can say "I'm happy to have met you" and such).

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2014-03-13, 19:44

Guys please take a look here and evaluate my attempt to pronounce the Turkish dark L as it is pronounced before a, o, ı (and u, which I forgot it existed while I was making the recording :roll: )
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-15, 14:06

Hmm. I hear a soft L.
*pats*

Do you clearly hear the difference when someone pronounces an L?
Here are some words, both Greek and Turkish, that I've read both with a soft and a dark L. I've shown the dark L's with upper case, short L's with lower case. See if you can imitate:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0VZ4bRJudnB
aLa - ala
εΛΛάδα - ελλάδα
saL - sal
tarLa - tarla
καΛό - καλό
soL - sol
buLut - bulut - bülüt (this last one is just to show the contrast)
kapıLar - kapılar
μαΛάκα - μαλάκα
İstanbuL - İstanbul
İstanbuLLu - İstanbullu

---------

I think that the real pronounciation of μαλάκα is somewhere between my two versions, but you be the judge.

It's not that important btw. Don't sweat it. It'll come in time.

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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby md0 » 2014-03-15, 14:55

Thanks for looking into it Ektoras.

Yes, I can hear the difference between dark L and clear L in both northern Greek dialects, and in Turkish.

But on the other hand, my two recordings don't sound the same to me. My "darkish L" sounds different to me than my normal /l/, so I thought it was at least a bit velarised (my understanding was that the back of my tongue must approach the velar position (of /k g/), while the front of the tongue performs the usual /l/.

I will attempt to record them later, as the environment is very noisy right now.
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Re: Kısa sorular / Short Questions

Postby Ektoras » 2014-03-15, 15:44

For what it's worth, k/g have different positions for me. When I pronounce a k or a g, the back of my tongue approaches/touches the palate.

However, when I pronounce a dark L, the back of my tongue is not approaching the palate. Only the tip of my tongue touches my upper teeth.

Actually, I do the same movement to pronounce both the T and the L. So maybe you start pronouncing a T, but pronounce a L instead. the back of your tongue must stay still.


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