NORWEGIAN DISCUSSION // Norskdrøfting

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NORWEGIAN DISCUSSION // Norskdrøfting

Postby E}{pugnator » 2002-12-10, 18:15

Hallo alle samen,

This group is intended for people interested in the Norwegian language. Before introducing the group, I should clarify some important things:

1. It's not a virtual class, it's a virtual discussion group

Meaning: we have no tutor for Norwegian. But this is no obstacle for those interested in Norsk to unite themselves and study it!!!!! The idea of "groups" was proposed for all these languages with no native speaker in Unilang (or those that actually have native speakers at Unilang but no one of them oferred to be a tutor). Such groups will be coordinated by those non-native guys who are most interested in the language and are learning it for the largest period of time. If you are interesting in creating a group for another language that's not your mother tongue or that hasa no native speaker here in Unilang, please first be sure that there's enough people interested on it to justify the existence of a group (in order not to convert it into a monologue). You should ask one of the administrators of the Virtual School of Languages Forum (proy, Aba, Poliglot, anyone else)to give you the status of moderator at the Virtual School of Languages Forum (this one here). Then you will be able to introduce a new thread, as only moderators of the VSL Forum can post new messages. I recommend you to suggest the creation of such a group at the Unilang Languages Forum (the bigger one) and see if there are people interested.

2.Anything related to the Norwegian language can be discussed here.

Feel free to write in Norwegian if you can. You are also encouraged to write in Danish or any other Scandinavian language provided that you explicit the language you're writting is not Norwegian (as beginner students will probably confuse Norwegian and Danish).

3.Feel free to ask for lesson in the Basic Norwegian.

Users like Axystos and me, who are not complete beginners (I personally am not a complete beginner...I'm just a...beginner) in Norwegian, can help you whenever it's posible. But, remember, we're not native speakers, and our opinion is not to be taken as a reference...This is a group, and, since we have no one to tutor us, the learning process has to be done, more than in any other class, by the contribution of all users!

If you are completely new, tell us here and we'll do our best to teach pronunciation, some grammar and some vocabulary! We plan to make a resources database with links to be posted here at this thread.

Now, hope you enjoy this new group and can contribute to one more Unilang initiative!!! Ha det bra,

E}{pugnator
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-10, 23:15

Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! Vi måtte vente litt, men nå er den her: en virtuell diskusjonsgruppe...på norsk!! *glad*

Som E}{pugnater allerede sa, finnes det ingen norsk studieleder. Hvis dere vill, kan dere spørre <i>oss</i> hva som helst, men vi (eller i hvert fall jeg) kan ikke love å vite allt.

Det er selvfølgelig også mulig å bare skrive noenting her for å øve din (eller, hvis dere bruker vanskelige ord, vår) norsk. :)

Jeg skal skrive litt mer om meg og hvordan jeg har lært norsk senere, men først vill jeg vite....må jeg også oversette denne teksten til engelsk, eller forstår dere det her allerede?

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2002-12-11, 12:14

Yes, Axystos, of course you should translate your messages into English...I could understand most of it (i mean, understand without checking at a dictionary, of course), but, remember, I'm also a beginner...so, it will be good to have some norsk messages here, specially if they are translated.
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-12, 0:06

Ok, here comes the translation:

--------

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!! We had to wait a little, but now it's here: a virtual discussiongroup...in norwegian!! *happy*

Like E}{pugnator already said, there's no norwegian tutor. If you want, you can ask <i>us</i> anything, but we (or in any case I) can't promise to know everything.

It is of course also possible to just write something here to practise your (or, if you use difficult words, our) norwegian. :)

I will write more about myself and how I learned norwegian later, but first I'd like to know...do I have to translate this text into english, or do you all understand this already?
(Well...that question has already been answered, I guess. ;)

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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-15, 15:35

Ok, nå: hvordan jeg har lært norsk.

I 2000 hadde jeg en mulighet for å gå til Norge, for å arbeide i en frukthage, og å bo hos en gjestfamilie. Så jeg lærte litt av den norske grammatikken før jeg gikk, og når jeg var der, leste jeg mange bøker og lærte mange ord.
Dessverre har jeg glemt mange av disse ord nå, men jeg håper, når jeg skriver mye norsk her, at jeg husker de fleste igjen...

----

Ok, now: how I learned norwegian.

In 2000 I had a possibility to go to Norway, to work in a fruitgarden and live with a guestfamilie. So I learned a bit of the norwegian grammar before I went, and when I was there, I read a lot of books and learned a lot of words.
Unfortunately I forgot a lot of these words now, but I hope, when I write a lot of norwegian here, that I'll remember most of them again...

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Postby froggie » 2002-12-15, 16:32

Heisan til alle :)
Jeg har også lært norsk engang, i en uni kursus, da jeg studerede i Tyskland. Det var da mze morsomt! Men nu snakker jeg bare dansk, for jeg bor i Danmark, men det ville være mye fint, hvis jeg kunne forbedre mit norsk her igjen! Så jeg håber at det er var ikke for dansk ;)
Hej med dere
Polarfrø

Hey all
I once learnt norwegian in a university course (actually 2 courses) when I studied in Germany. It was a whole lot of fun, unfortunately i forgot most of my norwegian, as i speak danish every day, but well, they are not so different. So I hope I kan make my norwegian get better here :)
hej hej
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-21, 11:44

Hei Polarfrog.

Nei, jeg sa ikke så mye dansk i beskjeden din. Fint at du vil gjøre med! :)
Hvor lenge hadde du studert norsk i uni kurset?

Mm..jeg trodde at jeg sa i det annet forumet mer personer som ville snakke litt norsk her.
Hvor er de? :)

-----

Hi Polarfrog.

No, I didn't see so much danish in your message. Nice that you want to join us! :)
How long did you study norwegian in the uni course?

Mm..I thought I saw more persons in the other forum who wanted to speak a little norwegian here.
Where are they? :)

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Postby Car » 2002-12-21, 12:41

Axystos wrote:Mm..jeg trodde at jeg sa i det annet forumet mer personer som ville snakke litt norsk her.
Hvor er de? :)

-----

Mm..I thought I saw more persons in the other forum who wanted to speak a little norwegian here.
Where are they? :)


Her. :)

---------

Here. :)

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Postby froggie » 2002-12-22, 13:31

heisa!
Jeg har läst norsk i ett aar i Freiburg. Det var da mye morsomt i kursen :)))
polarfrö

unskyld, jeg er hjemme hos mine foräldre og jeg maa ikke installere norske bogstaver...


I studied norwegian for one year in Freiburg. it was really a lot of fun.
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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-24, 0:35

Car wrote:Her. :)


Hei Car.

Takk for den poetisken beskjeden din. :P Kunne du fortelle oss litt mer om degselv (hvis du vill, selvfølgelig)? :)

Thanks for your poetic message. :P Could you tell us more about yourself (if you want, of course)? :)

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Postby Car » 2002-12-24, 10:37

Axystos wrote:Takk for den poetisken beskjeden din. :P Kunne du fortelle oss litt mer om degselv (hvis du vill, selvfølgelig)? :)

Thanks for your poetic message. :P Could you tell us more about yourself (if you want, of course)? :)


Jeg lærer norsk ved å lese NorWord-leksjoner og jeg kan litt norsk. Jeg har begynt å lære norsk i oktober (?).

----------

I am learning Norwegian by studying the NorWord lessons and I know a little Norwegian. I have begun to learn Norwegian in October.

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Postby Axystos » 2002-12-26, 21:42

Norword? Det kjenner jeg.. Men jeg kan ikke si at det har hjulpett meg mye.
Men det er kanskje fordi jeg liker bøker mer enn internetsites for å lære et språk..
Men hvis det hjelper deg... :)

Norword? I know that.. But I can't say that it helped me a lot.
But that's maybe because I like books better than internetsites to learn a language..
But if it helps you... :)

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Postby Car » 2002-12-28, 20:01

Axystos wrote:Norword? Det kjenner jeg.. Men jeg kan ikke si at det har hjulpett meg mye.
Men det er kanskje fordi jeg liker bøker mer enn internetsites for å lære et språk..
Men hvis det hjelper deg... :)

Norword? I know that.. But I can't say that it helped me a lot.
But that's maybe because I like books better than internetsites to learn a language..
But if it helps you... :)


Jeg også liker bøker mer enn internetsites for å lære et språk, men for å begynne NorWord hjelper meg.

I also like books better than internetsites to learn a language, but for starting, NorWord helps me.

I wasn*t sure if I like learning Norwegian, NorWord is good to find it out.

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2002-12-30, 18:03

Hei,

I feel emotioned our initiative have grown up...I don't have much time now, I'm in a cybercafe, but I hope next week when I return to the uni i can continue learning Norwegian! I'm fascinated with the so much I can learn from the bylingual messages!

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-01-06, 18:47

Hei,

Jeg tror vi skulle arbeide med musikk. Jeg har mange norske sangene, og jeg har også sangstekstene. Og jeg veit hvor kan du finde norske sangene på internetet.
(please correct all this asap, it's terrible!!!)

Hey,

I think we should work with music. I have many Norwegian songs, and I also have the lyrics. And I know where you can find Norwegian music at the internet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw, do any of you already know some Norwegian artists; Could you make some suggestions (preferably artists that sing in bokmål, of course);
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Postby Axystos » 2003-01-07, 0:13

Med musikk? En bra idé. Hvilke sanger har du? Og er det folksmusikk eller popmusikk?
Selv kjenner jeg ingen bokmålsangere, dessverre.

With music? A good idea. What songs do you have? And is it folkmusic or popmusic?
I myself don't know any bokmålsingers, unfortunately.

[correction of which I know for (almost) sure how they should be]
-veit isn't bokmål --> vet

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Complicated pronouns

Postby Saaropean » 2003-01-09, 14:34

Jeg lærte noe om norsk grammatikken i dag! :D
I learned something about Norwegian grammar today! :D

In my Grammar Theory course today, we learned about anaphoric binding in lexical-functional grammar. :?
Basically this deals with the question How does a computer find out what a pronoun refers to?
This seems to be very complicated in Norwegian, since different pronouns (anaphors) behave in different ways, unlike in English...
The slides our professor showed us were basically copies of the paper Anaphoric binding and 'inside-out' functional uncertainty by Ronald Kaplan and Mary Dalrymple (Xerox PARC 1995), which you can find at http://www.essex.ac.uk/linguistics/clmt ... naphora.ps

Enjoy the following examples: :)

1) seg selv corefers with a subject, never with an object
"Jon fortalte meg om seg selv" = "Jon told me about himself"
"Jon beundrer seg selv" = "Jon admires himself"
but not: "Vi fortalte Jon om seg self" = "We told Jon about himself", because Jon is the object of "fortale"

2) ham selv corefers with an object, never with a subject
"Vi fortalte Jon om ham selv" = "We told Jon about him(self)"
"Vi gav Jon ham selv i julegave" = "We gave Jon himself as present"
but not: "Jon respeckterer ham selv" = "Jon respects himself", because Jon is the subject

3) seg does not corefer with coarguments, i.e. with other arguments of the same verb
"Jon hørte oss snakke om seg" = "Jon heard us talk about him(self)"
but not: "Jon foraktet seg" = "Jon despises himself", because Jon is the subject of "forakte", thus "seg" cannot be an object of the same verb

4) seg selv does corefer with coarguments
"Jon beundrer seg selv" = "Jon admires himself"
"[Jon's angrep på seg selv] var en overraskelse" = "[Jon's attack on himself] was a surprise"
but maybe not: "Jon leste noen omtaler av seg selv" = "Jon read some report about himself", because some people don't consider the prepositional phrase "av seg selv" to be an object of "lese"

5) hverandre corefers with an element that has a predicate and a subject ("minimal complete nucleus")
"De fortalte meg om hverandre" = "They told me about each other"
"Jon og Marit leste noen omtaler av hverandre" = "Jon and Marit read some reports about each other"
but not: "De hørte meg snakke om hverandre" = "They heard me talk about each other", because "meg" is the subject of "snakke", not "de"

6) seg corefers with the minimal element that has a tense ("minimal finite domain")
"Jon bad oss forsøke å få deg til å snakke pent om seg" = "Jon asked us (to) try to get you to talk nicely about (him)self"
but not: "Jon var ikke klar over at vi hadde snakket om seg" = "Jon was not aware that we had talked about him(self)", because "snakke" is not in the infinitive (it has the pluperfect tense), thus "seg" should refer to "vi" instead of "Jon".


So pay attention when using reflexive or reciprocal pronouns in Norwegian... :wink:

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-01-15, 18:28

Interesting topic, Saar...

I'll try not to read it carefully now, or I may get mad and give up instantly!!!! :D

For those who want to know how to get norwegian music, mail me and I'll tell you...Then we'll choose a song and discuss it here...
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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-01-21, 13:07

Hei,

So, here are the lyrics for the song Idyll, from Postgirobygget...

Idyll

Det var solnedgang, det var latter, det var sang
det var sommerfri...det var sjø og magi
Det var deg og det var meg, det var minner som aldri vil dø
det var evighet...og en sol som farga himmelen rød

Det var øl, berusende ord
det var sommer, det var sol
det var hjerter i brann, blikkstille vann
alt på denne jord

Og det var kjærlighet...ja det var kjærlighet
minner som aldri vil dø...en sol som farga himmelen rød...Idyll

Sommer'n var på hell...dette var siste kveld
vi lå på rygg, jeg følte meg trygg
men frøys litt likavel

Vi lå og så på stjernene...og hørte på sangen fra ternene
vi visste begge hvor det bar, og at vi aldri skulle glemme hvordan det var

Det var øl, berusende ord
det var sommer, det var sol
det var hjerter i brann, blikkstille vann alt på denne jord

Og kanskje en dag vi sees igjen
vi stopper og prater og du blir med meg hjem
så ser vi med tiden hva som skjer
mens vi tenker tilbake på minner og ler

Det var øl, berusende ord
det var sommer, det var sol
det var hjerter i brann, blikkstille vann alt på denne jord

Og det var kjærlighet...ja det var kjærlighet

minnene vil aldri vil dø
solen farga himmelen rød...Idyll

Barbeint i varm sjø, solen farga himmelen rød
minnene vil aldri dø...Idyll

Hope you liked it...If not, don't worry. What I like most in this band is that they sing songs from styles that are completely differents...You can find "heavier" or even "dancer" music amongst theirs...

I've decided to begin with these lyrics because I have important remarks about grammar to be made based on its verses...

1. Since a norwegian verb has a single form for all persons, "Det var" can mean both "there was" and "there were"...This can be noticed throughout the song when you find some plural words coming after it...
2. The opposition between the plural, articleless, and the definite plural is quite elucidative...At the chorus, we can hear the sentence

"Det var...minner som aldri vil dø" (There were memories that will never die)

But at the last chorus, we hear:
"Minnene vil aldri dø" (The memories will never die; i.e. the memories the author was referring to during the music, he says at the end that they will never die, it's interesting the construction that Norwegian uses to change from one sentence to another, based on the word endings for plural and definite article, what wouldn't sound the same in languages that doesn't use an attached definite article form)

3. Remember that final "t" in the word "kjærlighet" is pronounced...it's not the neuter singular definite article ending, but rather a suffix that made the word "kjærlig" into a noun...if you wanted to attach a definite article, u'd write "kjærlighetet" (and wouldn't pronounce the final t), the same way you write "universitetet", so it's something we should pay attention...

4. Don't get frightened with the word "Sommer'n", it is not that the song is in another dialect, it's bokmål, the "e" was taken out for metrical reasons in the lyrics...

All comments are welcome...And who is courageous enough to start translating it?! I'll wait for some of you to try and only then I'll get the dictionary at the library again...
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Postby Axystos » 2003-01-26, 17:07

Well..Let me try to translate the first 10 lines.

Idyll

There was sunset, there was laughter, there was singing
There was free time in the summer...there was sea and magic
There was you and there was me, there were memories that will never die
There was eternity...and a sun that colored the sky red

There was beer, intoxicating words*
There was summer, there was sun
There were hearts on fire, water as smooth as a mirror**
All on this Earth

And there was love...yes, there was love
Memories that will never die...a sun that colored the sky red...Idyll



*Hva?? So basically this guy is singing about this person he met, while he was completely drunk??
"Memories that will never die"? I'm surprised he even <i>has</i> memories of that period in his life.. :shock: :P
So..let's just hope that I translated that part wrong. :)

** Not sure about this translation.

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