Prosperen galtoak

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Ez da ihor heben?

[OrE]

Egün hun!

"Beldurtzen ninduena gertatu zen." esango nuke euskara batuaz, baina ez dakit ziur nola den zubereraz.

Izan huntsa!

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Beldurtzen ninduena gertatu zen

I don't understand why it is "ninduen"... isn't it "he/it... me" in the past (of ükhen) ?
can you explain me? looks like it's a complicated expression

[OrE]

Well, to be fair I changed the verb (beldur izan -> beldurtu) to do the trick.

Uraren beldur naiz. -> I'm afraid of water
Urak beldurtzen nau. -> Water frightens me.

[arabarra]

Hi,

I think the "multiuse" -n ending can be applied in this case:

"beldur nintzen hura gertatu egin da azkenean"...

Basque has the capacity (or the necessity, in lack of other resources) of just ignoring the case coordination in subordinate sentences.

For instance:
" The bar in which I met you"
becomes in Basque:
"ezagutu zintudaN taberna"
where the original case ("non") has just dissapeared.

In other languages, prepositions give an elegant way to construct this kind of sentences, while Basque is poorly equipped for such constructions. Complex sentences might be very messy or just impossible to formulate... Lots of language militants get angry when this evident fact is pointed out: people might be very sensitive about anything that might sound as an statement of Basque being inherently inferior to socially developed languages. But that's a different story.

In practical terms, this limitation does not mean anything else that in Basque the natural way of thinking drives the speaker through series of short sentences rather than complex ones. In your sentence, even if it can be translated more or less literally, one detects that the language is being pushed along a path it does not feel comfortable walking. Probably, in a natural conversation, one could say something like:
"lehen ere beldur nintzen horretaz ta azkenean gertatu egin da!"
or even with the nice telegram style so typical in Basque:
"betidanik beldur hortaz, ta azkenean gertatu"

[Lur]

In other languages, prepositions give an elegant way to construct this kind of sentences, while Basque is poorly equipped for such constructions. Complex sentences might be very messy or just impossible to formulate... Lots of language militants get angry when this evident fact is pointed out: people might be very sensitive about anything that might sound as an statement of Basque being inherently inferior to socially developed languages. But that's a different story.

In practical terms, this limitation does not mean anything else that in Basque the natural way of thinking drives the speaker through series of short sentences rather than complex ones. In your sentence, even if it can be translated more or less literally, one detects that the language is being pushed along a path it does not feel comfortable walking. Probably, in a natural conversation, one could say something like:
"lehen ere beldur nintzen horretaz ta azkenean gertatu egin da!"
or even with the nice telegram style so typical in Basque:
"betidanik beldur hortaz, ta azkenean gertatu"

It's true that one shouldn't force a language or expect it to have the same expressive resources as others, specially given that it belongs to a different language family than the neighbouring languges.

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Agur eta urthe berri hun oroer!

I have a new question: I'd like to say this in Basque:

when they were saying goodbye to us, (something happened)
so far I've written:
agurtzen ari zeizgünean, ...

is it right, and if it isn't (by the way zeizgün should be zitzaizkigun in Batüa), could you please correct my sentence?

eskerrik hanitx!

[arabarra]

Hi Prosper,

first a note: "agurtu" is correct, but there are other ways for "to say good bye" that sound less formal to me: "Agur esan" or "Agur egin", or "adio esan".

In any case that does not change the behaviour of the auxiliary verbs in coordination with "ari". Your construction is certainly correct, at least in Batua, but it's also an example of the effect that we comment frequently: the tendency of Basque to avoid "complicated" verbal forms. In a real conversation, the speaker would probably go simply for "adio esatean (zerbait gertatu zen)"

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Thanks
but when you say "adio esatean (zerbait gertatu zen)" how do you know who is saying goodbye to whom? it only means "when saying goodbye, something happened", right?

[arabarra]

Hi,

yes, you're right. In general the context is expected to clarify this, but if the speaker feels that it's not the case, it is still possible to explicit the Nor/Nori/Nork:

"Guri agur esatean ez zirudien batere alai"

(while saying goodbye to us, he didn't look very happy)

... by the way, here comes one of those verbs that present a couple of forms than can be conjugated without auxiliary verbs: irudi (with forms dirudi, dirudizu, zirudien...)

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

"Guri agur esatean ez zirudien batere alai"

(while saying goodbye to us, he didn't look very happy)

ah yes you can indicate whom you're talking to by using "guri"... since that information is carried by the auxiliary most of the time, I almost forgot about it

Is it possible to use "guri" and "zeizgünean" in the same clause, although it gives twice the same information?

... by the way, here comes one of those verbs that present a couple of forms than can be conjugated without auxiliary verbs: irudi (with forms dirudi, dirudizu, zirudien...)

ok. I have to verify if it's used in Xiberoa, I'm not sure actually.
eskerrik hanitx

[arabarra]

Is it possible to use "guri" and "zeizgünean" in the same clause, although it gives twice the same information?

not only possible, sometimes it is even necessary depending on the sense of the sentence. If you really want to pinpoint that he was saying goodbye to us (an not to somebody else) than marking the NORI just in the verbal inflexion is not sufficient: you need the pronoun. Example:

Guri etortzeko esan zigun, zuri ordea etxean geratzeko.

"he told us to come over, but you were told to stay home instead"

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Thanks.

Galto berri bat:

I want to translate
We talked with her about the work to do, about what kind of floor one should put (in our house) etc.

So far I wrote:
Egiteko lanetzaz, zer lürgaine ezarri behar denez ( ?) eta beste honeki hitz egin dügü.

is it right?
eskerrik hanitx

[arabarra]

We talked with her about the work to do, about what kind of floor one should put (in our house) etc.

I'd go with:

Egin beharreko lanaz hitzegin genuen berarekin: zer zoru mota jarri behar zen eta abar...

I assume that the galdegaia is answering "about what did we speak?", i.e., "egin beharreko lanaz", so I'd put the verb directly after it. You can also put the verb at the end of the clause considering that "zer zoru mota jarri behar zen eta abar" is actually part of the galdegaia. But this construction sounds a little too long for a galdegaia to me.

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Egün hun

Could someone translate the lyrics of this song for me please? There are too many words I don't know and because of suffixes and vowel changes etc, I can't find many of them in dictionaries -- I'm not advanced enough...
Eskerrik hanitx!

Here it is:

Eutsi, borroka bakarrari
izatera heltzeko, zarena zarelako
hutsez, bakar bat gehiago.
Nagusitu zaitez, zeure lekua baduzu
bermatu, lotu, bilatu, aurki ezazu.

Zuk, zeure kabia hornituz
hitz merke ta txiroez at
jaten eman buruari, ez inori, zeuri beti.
Jakin zuloan topatzen,
barnetik ateratzen,
zeharka, itzulika (ko ?), garrasika.

- Eutsi...-
- Segi, zuzen bide ertzean
gaztigatu dizugu, aurrera jarraitzeko
atzera ez begiratzeko.
Egunez egun zihur
nahi hura ikusten dugu
ez arduratu, irtenbiderik ez badu.

ustez jakin badakizu
nolakoa zaren zu
galdetuz gero akabo, mututua, ixilik, zero.
Jakin ezean onartu
uste ere ezin dela
izan, sinestu, aitortu, ezagutu

- Eutsi...-
- Segi...-

[OrE]

It's batua basque. All these words should be in most regular dictionaries. Here is the translation anyway.

Eutsi, borroka bakarrari
izatera heltzeko, zarena zarelako
hutsez, bakar bat gehiago.
Nagusitu zaitez, zeure lekua baduzu
bermatu, lotu, bilatu, aurki ezazu.

Hold to the only fight
to get to be, because you are what you are
with failures, one more.
raise, you do have your place
warrant, tie, search, find it.

Zuk, zeure kabia hornituz
hitz merke ta txiroez at
jaten eman buruari, ez inori, zeuri beti.
Jakin zuloan topatzen,
barnetik ateratzen,
zeharka, itzulika, garrasika.

You, supplying your nest
away from cheap and poor words
nourish your head, to nobody, to yourself always
know to find your way in the hole
getting out
crossing, spinning, yelling.

- Eutsi...-

- Hold...

- Segi, zuzen bide ertzean
gaztigatu dizugu, aurrera jarraitzeko
atzera ez begiratzeko.
Egunez egun zihur
nahi hura ikusten dugu
ez arduratu, irtenbiderik ez badu.

continue, straight on the way border
we advised you, to continue ahead
not to look backwards
day to day sure
we see that desire
don't worry, if it has no solution

ustez jakin badakizu
nolakoa zaren zu
galdetuz gero akabo, mututua, ixilik, zero.
Jakin ezean onartu
uste ere ezin dela
izan, sinestu, aitortu, ezagutu

you think you know
what are you like
if asked it's over, muted, silent, zero.
If you don't know admit it
it can't be even thought
be, believe, confess, know

- Eutsi...-

- Hold...

- Segi...-

- Continue...

The song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-5_-6Jl9E

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Eskerrik hanitx !!!

It's batua basque. All these words should be in most regular dictionaries. Here is the translation anyway.

yes but as I said, declined or conjugated stuff aren't in dictionaries ; I don't master all verbs nor endings, for instance "zarena zarelako", I know it's "you are"+something in Batüa but I don't know what the "something" is Suffixes aren't in the dictionaries, and not always easy to find in grammars...

thanks again

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Agur

Erranaldi hau üskaraz ützüli nahi nüke, bena gaitzegi da eta ez düt ene librüetan edireiten:

Your uncle, who is sick and who would like to talk with you about the projects you had formed together.

Zure osaba, eri dena, eta alkharreki hitzartü züntüen egingeien bürüz mintzatü nahi litzeikezüna ???
Eri den eta alkharreki hitzartü züntüen egingeien bürüz mintzatü nahi litzeikezün zure osaba????

actually the problem is that I don't know how you can coordinate two relative clauses that qualify the same noun...

eskerrik hanitx

[arabarra]

Aupa,

honelaxe itzuliko nuke nik:

Zure osaba, gaikorik dagoena eta elkarrekin hitzartutako projektuen gainean hitzegin nahi lizukeena....

Beitu dena den jatorrizko ingelesezko esaldia ez zela benetako esaldia: aditza behar zuen eta. Honekin zea esan nahi dut: segun eta zenbat gainerako osagai gehitzen dituzun, esaldi osoa bestela eratuko zenuke. Beharbada zatitu ere egingo zenuke.

[Prosper_Youplaboum]

Esker

Actually "zure osaba" was in the -z case in the exercise, expressing the agent of a passive verb -- looks like it's not possible in Batüa but it's possible in Souletin
I was afraid it would be too complicated if I told all that ; I just wanted to know how one can coordinate relatives
berriz mil esker