Pronunciation you won't find in books

[Lauren]

Over my year-and-a-half to two-year study of Basque, I have noticed some pronunciation rules that no course or any book (in English at least) would ever teach you. This thread will contain the various rules I have observed in spoken Basque. Unfortunately, my memory is pretty bad, so I can't think of all of them at this time. But over time I will add more, and anyone else is welcome to post any observations they made.

Rule 1: Nasalization of vowels followed by "n" before "z" and "s"
This rule is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll give some examples, along with a recording.

Example 1: "janzten", present participle of "jantzi", to dress.

Example sentence: "Zer janzten duzu?" What are you wearing?
Pronunciation: [zeɾ ˈxãs̻ten duˈs̻u]


Example 2: "joan zen", past participle "to go" and 3ps. "was"

Example sentence: "Parisa joan zen duela hiru aste." He/she/it went to Paris three weeks ago.
Pronunciation: [paˈɾis̺a ˈxʷã s̻en ˈðu̯ela ˈiɾu as̺ˈte]


Example 3: "irensten", present participle of "irentsi", to swallow

Example sentence: "Amua irensten duen arraina bezala" Like a fish that swallowed a hook
Pronunciation: [aˈmua iˈɾẽs̺ten ˌðuen aˈraɲa βeˈs̻ala]

[arabarra]

what? Where did you hear these examples? In XIIth century?

No, seriously, I really don't agree with these rules. I am admittedly pretty bad at recognizing fine phonetical details, but I don't think the standard speaker makes a real different "un" in the words "laguntza" and "lagundu"... At least in the Spanish part of the Country, that is.

[linguoboy]

No, seriously, I really don't agree with these rules. I am admittedly pretty bad at recognizing fine phonetical details, but I don't think the standard speaker makes a real different "un" in the words "laguntza" and "lagundu"... At least in the Spanish part of the Country, that is.

But tz is not the same as z, so the rule wouldn't apply to laguntza.

[Lauren]

No, seriously, I really don't agree with these rules. I am admittedly pretty bad at recognizing fine phonetical details, but I don't think the standard speaker makes a real different "un" in the words "laguntza" and "lagundu"... At least in the Spanish part of the Country, that is.

But tz is not the same as z, so the rule wouldn't apply to laguntza.

Correct. A similar phonetic realization is said to have happened in Latin before "s" and "f", where an "n" is lost and the previous vowel is nasalized. And surely there are more examples in othe languages, but that's the only one I can think of right now.

As for where I've heard these, I've heard them from native Basque speakers. I couldn't tell you where they're from, but I am positive that it's a nasalized vowel. I on the other hand am pretty good at recognizing phonetic details.

When I get home I'll see if I can find some recordings from a native speaker.

[Lauren]

Ongi, adibide bat ondoko abestian aurkitu dut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMBELVwT9CM

2:24ean aurkituko duzu, "aldemenean zaitudala" esaten duen unean.

OK, I found an example in the following song. You will find it at 2:24, where he says "aldamenean zaitudala".

[arabarra]

Still not convinced. I'll still think that the reason this pronunciation doesn't appear in books is that it is not present in modern -peninsular- Basque. I've at least have failed to notice it my 37 years of life as a Basque speaker in Spain.

Across the border, Xiberera might have this kind of vowels, as continental Basque phonetics has evolved under the influence of French. But I sincerely don't know which are the standard phonetic rules of this dialect.

So, I'd be interested in knowing the geographical origin of the native speakers that gave you this information (and their date of birth... they are not some "hildako" friends of yours, aren't they? I vaguely recall having read that old biscayen used to have nasal vowels, but I couldn't produce a reference right now).

In the song, while it is true that it pronounces the final "n" in a fast way, its just because he is forcing the group /e+a/ into an artificial, cacophonic, horrible diphthong /ea/, what you do not do unless you're a poor songwriter (he uses this unaesthetic trick with other vowel groups during the song).

Note that this effect disappears in any other appearance of the group vowel+n+z in the song: there is no nasalization ("izan zeure buruaren jabe").

The only phonetic effect I identify as common related to this group is the conversion z->tz:
"joan zen" can become "joantzen" for some speakers

[Lauren]

Well, I know of a recording on the Basque course I use that demonstrates it very clearly, but there are hundreds of pages on that site and I cannot remember where it is. I've been trying to find it, but so far I can't.

Here's a better example though:
http://www.mp3upload.info/files/j9sl1335313086.html
(zinemaldiaren zuzendariari eta...)

I shouldn't have said "common pronunciation" in my first post, as not all speakers do it all the time, but it's definitely there.

Also, soon I'll do a write-up on 2 more "rules": voicing of "z" and "s", and maybe another one if I can remember it.

[Lauren]

Here is a really good example of the nasalization rule. It is completely and obviously there.

http://www.mp3upload.info/files/AySiCGD1335633612.html

"Behobia-Donostia lasterketan korrika egin ondoren, Xabi aitarekin joan zen sagardotegira, txuleta eder bat jatera."

[0stsee]

Also, soon I'll do a write-up on 2 more "rules": voicing of "z" and "s", and maybe another one if I can remember it.

that'd be great!
I've just posted this question in another thread.

is it true that some French Basque pronounce Z like in English or French? and how about intervocalic S (and X?)? and TZ (and TS?) in intervocalic position?