Dunbots' Basque Questions

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Lauren
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-04-30, 18:36

I wanted to translate a thing in a thread here but would like to get it checked and corrected first, if you please. :) I tried to not make it too literal.

 (eu) - Matrix-a alde guztietan dago. Inguratzen gaitu. Oraintxe ere, gela honetan berbera. Ikus dezakezu leihotik kanpora begiratzen zaren edo telebista pizten duzun bakoitzean. Senti dezakezu lanera edo elizara joaten, zergak ordaintzen dituzun bakoitzean. Begiak estali dizkizun mundua da egien aurrean ez ikusia egiteko.

- Ze egia?

- Esklabo bat zarela, Neo. Beste guztiok bezala zu esklabutzan jaio zinen. Ez dasta ez ikus ez uki dezakezun espetxean jaioa. Zure gogoetentzako epsetxea.


Thank you very much!
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-01, 8:32

very good job. Only some notes:

"Inguratzen gaitu: -> "Inguratu EGITEN gaitu". This sentence was very unhappy without a proper galdegaia. :)

"Senti dezakezu lanera edo elizara joaten" -> "Senti dezakezu lanera edo elizara joateAn"

"Oraintxe ere, gela honetan berbera." -> "Oraintxe ere, gela honetantxe ere" (berbera would need a declension anyway)

"Beste guztiok bezala zu esklabutzan jaio zinen" Also a Galdegaia problem. "esklabutzan jaio zinen zu Neo, beste guztiok bezala"

"Begiak estali dizkizun mundua da egien aurrean ez ikusia egiteko." ... hm... Here I'm not certain what is the exact meaning of the sentence :hmm:


Quite impressed with your Basque!

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-01, 20:14

arabarra wrote:Quite impressed with your Basque!

Thank you! :mrgreen:

That one line is supposed to say something like:
It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Maybe I translated it too literally. :oops: I'm not sure of a better way to say that.

Also, at first I had planned on using "honexetan"/"honetantxe" but decided against that. Shouldn't have second guessed myself!
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-03, 14:58

It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.


aah, yes. Ok, the problem is mainly with that "ez ikusia egiteko". This is a weird construction, I thought you actually meant "ez ikusiarena egiteko" (i.e., to pretend that you have not seen anything: "Amaia ikusi nuen kalean baina berak ez ikusiarena egin ta ez zidan kasu egin").

I think a simple way (still close to your translation) could be this one:
"begiak estaltzen dizkizun mundua da hau, zu egiaren aurrean itsu bihurtzeko egina"

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-04, 17:30

Eskerrik asko, arabarra!

Would it be possible to say "dirudit" to mean "it seems to me"? It seems like that form is used somewhat.
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-05, 19:09

"Would it be possible to say "dirudit" to mean "it seems to me"? It seems like that form is used somewhat"

nope, the -t there is for NORK, not for nori, and it is not an usual form, anyway. "it seems to me" is translated by the very common " ... ematen dit"

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby crush » 2015-05-06, 3:35

Is "iruditzen zait" not used as well to mean "it seems to me"? I haven't seen that use of eman yet.
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-06, 4:03

crush wrote:Is "iruditzen zait" not used as well to mean "it seems to me"? I haven't seen that use of eman yet.

It is. :) I was wondering about an entirely synthetic form, though.
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-06, 10:05

Hi,

oh, my mistake. "ematen dit" and "iruditzen zait" are very similar but not quite the same. "Iruditzen zait" is rather "I have the opinion" (but a stronger opinion than in "uste dut" ), while "ematen dit" would be the nor-nori-nork of "ematen du", which is semantically very similar to "dirudi", but not grammatically.

"nekatuta dirudi": looks tired
"nekatura dagoela ematen du": it looks like he's tired.

In the second one, the subject is an impersonal one. "nekatuta ematen duzu" it's weird, wouldn't use it.

"ematen dit" can be used to subtly express a hunch or an intuition (sometimes ironically). I mean, "ematen du" should be something that everybody can see, if you choose the "ematen dit" form you're implying that maybe you saw a little bit more than others. For instance, somebody enters panting and out of breath in a bar, you could say:
"hm, korrika etorri dela ematen dit"

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-09, 2:24

That's a good explanation, arabarra. It's interesting what one understands but couldn't describe. I could intuit the difference between the two but would not have been able to describe it!

I decided to take a look at the the two pages of the thread; I made so many mistakes and misunderstood so many things that seem so easy and apparent to me now. That actually makes me a bit happy, seeing how far I've come with Basque since then. Also, I was very immature and rude. I apologize for that.
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-09, 9:42

I apologize for that.


not certain that not knowing Basque is a reason to apologise :) (unless you're the president of our Government)...

But I liked that you are already getting to grasp how the language works, so that you can have the right intuition about the fine details.

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby crush » 2015-05-09, 14:16

I'm hoping i'll be able to say the same a year or two down the road (well, apart from apologizing for being rude :P). It's a really great feeling, congrats :D
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-09, 14:45

arabarra wrote:
I apologize for that.


not certain that not knowing Basque is a reason to apologise :) (unless you're the president of our Government)...

But I liked that you are already getting to grasp how the language works, so that you can have the right intuition about the fine details.

I was apologizing for being immature. :lol: I still need to practice my speaking and listening a lot, but I like to think I'm doing pretty good with Basque. :D I'm proud of myself.
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby broq » 2015-05-10, 2:00

arabarra wrote:nope, the -t there is for NORK, not for nori, and it is not an usual form, anyway. "it seems to me" is translated by the very common " ... ematen dit"


Disagree with this. "Dirudit" is a Nor-Nori form. See this verb table: http://postimg.org/image/tu3bv4vx9/ (the second column is the past tense). I wouldn't say it's exactly common, but it's definitely not unusual either. Any native speaker would understand, for example: "Oso ona dirudit".

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-10, 2:25

That is interesting, broq. Rudolf P.G. de Rijk's grammar Standard Basque says that those forms in the table you gave are just NOR, i.e. "dirudit" means "I seem", "dirudizu" means "you seem". I would think that "it seems to me" is a more useful verb than "I seem", though.

Ongi etorri forora, broq! :mrgreen:
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-12, 20:35

Disagree with this. "Dirudit" is a Nor-Nori form. See this verb table: http://postimg.org/image/tu3bv4vx9/ (the second column is the past tense).


disagree with the disagreement :-). This table is clearly a nor-nork structure (just look at the past tense). The Euskalzandia rules for irudi as aditz trinkoa (as far as I remember) are restricted to nor-nork, like in "mutil, tontoa dirudizu elastiko hori jantzita!", (boy, you look like an idiot with that shirt).

Agree that you can say "neri ona dirudit" and everybody would understand it, but as much everybody would understand "he rompido el pantalon" or "you don't have no milk".

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-05-13, 5:50

Arabarra does seem to be right... :hmm:

Zuzen al ditzakezu hurrengo esaldi labur hauek, mesedez? :)

Mezu hau euskaraz ere idazteko asmoa izan dut, baina oso nekaturik nago eta oraintxe niretzat fokatzea oso zaila da. Doi-doi mezua ingelesez idaztea lortu dut!


Word order can still be a bit difficult for me and I'm unsure if some parts in those sentences sound like something a native speaker would say or not. Also, I wanted to stress "ingelesez" in the last sentence but am unsure of how to do that accurately. :para:

Also, in my ongoing attempts to understand galdegaia, I'd like to ask what is it exactly in this sentence:

Zerbait irabaztekotan saldu zuen autoa.

Is it "autoa" or "zerbait irabaztekotan" or just "irabaztekotan" or...?
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-05-15, 9:18

Zerbait irabaztekotan saldu zuen autoa.


The galdegaia is "zerbait irabaztekotan". The sentence stresses the reason he had to sell the auto.

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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby Lauren » 2015-12-06, 22:25

I cannot for the life of me figure out what "mundu mailako" means in this title:

Google-en Halloween gaua mundu mailako gozoki txapelketa batekin


Itzulpentxo bat eman al nazakezu, mesedez? :oops:
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Re: Dunbots' Basque Questions

Postby arabarra » 2015-12-13, 11:34

Itzulpentxo bat eman al nazakezu, mesedez? :oops
:

not *nazakezu (nor-nork!): it's "diezadakezu"

"mundu mailako gozoki txapelketa" means "a candy competition of world level". In that competition you expect contestants from all around the word.

In bertsolaritza, for instance, we say "herrialde mailako txapelketak, nazio mailako txapelketak, eskualde mailako txapelketak..."


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