untranslatable italian words

[delosbueis]

Hello

With other 3 artists I am working in an art book project that has to do with "untranslatable" words. Languages of Europe but in the broader sense of the word: including big communities living in Europe (Arab, Japanese, Hebrew...)

The "untranslatables" are words that in a particular language express a thought, feeling, etc. that is unique to that culture and cannot be translated as a single word to other languages, but it has to be explained and contextualized.

The book has both a visual and a textual part. We have done a lot of work on the content, and we're now in the final stage where we would like to check with [semi-professional] linguists or very dedicated fans that what we say about each word is clear and accurate, and get any other final input/feedback.

It wouldn't be much work as each word has a short paragraph explanantion and 3 examples of use of one sentence each. So it could be as short as a 5 min. check just to give us that peace of mind.

If any of you out there is interested to have a look at our 2 italian words, please pm me

[lama su]

the first one that comes in my mind is "pirla".. but i think it's not a good one..

[leppie]

Lama, they have already choosen the words, as far as I can understand...

[ILuvEire]

Lama, they have already choosen the words, as far as I can understand...

Sì, sono d'accordo.

[delosbueis]

yes, the words are truzzo and magari

[KingHarvest]

Why magari...

[delosbueis]

why not? it's quite special, ambiguous, confusing, italian!

[KingHarvest]

Not really.

[delosbueis]

Not really.

could you develop?

[KingHarvest]

How is "maybe" an untranslatable idea? How would you even draw "maybe?"

[delosbueis]

ok - I guess we are not separating it from the context and culture it comes from.
If you say "maybe", fair enough, it's like "quizas" in spanish, but I think there's more to it than that?
and in a way you would only get it if you're italian or very close to italians...

I guess it's about seeing all the colours the word really has for an outsider, that's how I see it.

this is what we've got for it, see what u think:

MAGARI
Italian/interjection

Italians use magari for something in between a wish as in "if only" or “hopefully” and an exclamation as in "don't I wish..." This ambiguity, typical for the Italian language and culture, leaves a lot of room for interpretation and it covers the entire spectrum of future possibilities, with a comical twist. Used as a response to an invitation it's not really sure if one means: "yes, I'd love to" or "nice idea, but no way".

HOW TO USE
- When someone who you are not sure whether you like or not asks you out on a date, you could say magari.
- When the clerk of your bank asks you if you have a fixed job while trying to get a credit card or a loan from them, you could say magari.
- If you haven’t got the heart to communicate to someone a clear ‘NO’, you can always soften it with magari….

[KingHarvest]

So maybe.

[delosbueis]

thanks for confirming - confused as ever - that's how it works!

[lama su]

generally "magari" = "maybe"

sometimes "magari" = "if only" et similia

however it's not untranslatable..

[delosbueis]

As I explained earlier, it doesn't have to be literally untranslatable, it's more about the context, culture etc and having one for one word with the same richness
but thanks

[lama su]

As I explained earlier, it doesn't have to be literally untranslatable, it's more about the context, culture etc and having one for one word with the same richness
but thanks

yes.. but i don't understand what is "cultural untranslatable" in "magari"... this is not a "typical italian ambiguity", it's the same ambiguity of the english "maybe"...

and i don't understand very wel what do you mean with "one for one word with the same richness".. there are relatvly few words that have the exactly same range of means in two languages, so..

and about "truzzo"... please.. that's not an "italian word".. it's teen slang, but not italian..

I think than if you want to show some "italian cultural peculiarities", you can find some better words that these two..

[voron]

Well, "magari" is indeed not an easy word to learn to use correctly, because there's also "forse" for maybe, or even "probabilmente", and they are not totally interchangeable. (Actually, I do not believe that ANY 2 words in a language are totally interchangeable, if one of them hasn't fallen out of use it is for a reason).

But I agree with lama su that such words are copious. You can choose an example as basic as a word for "now": there's a choice between "adesso" and "ora" (and also less obvious variants). Can anyone finally explain me when to use which?

[gorillone]

Been on this site a couple of years ago, dropped a few messages on the Hungarian forum, then disappeared... but since I happened to come here again, I'll add my humble comments!

I don't think your examples are so good, delosbueis. One is plain wrong: if someone asks me whether I have a job and I answer "magari", it means I have NO job and I wish I had one. No ambiguity. I'm stating in a quite emphatic way that I have no job.
(So, by the way, it doesn't mean "maybe", not always at least.)

And about truzzo being peculiar of Italian culture, it's somewhat offensive...

But can you explain what you mean by "ambiguous, confusing, italian"? I'm curious!

[ILuvEire]

What would better words be, is magari and truzzo aren't any good?

[lama su]

Well, "magari" is indeed not an easy word to learn to use correctly, because there's also "forse" for maybe, or even "probabilmente", and they are not totally interchangeable.

when they have the meaning "maybe" yes, they are totally interchangeable.

As it has been said, "magari" can also mean "i would like (but it's not possible)" but it's a secondary meaning, and it's relatively limitated

You can choose an example as basic as a word for "now": there's a choice between "adesso" and "ora" (and also less obvious variants).

"ora" and "adesso" have exactly the same meaning, i can't found an example where one can't use both..

Actually, I do not believe that ANY 2 words in a language are totally interchangeable, if one of them hasn't fallen out of use it is for a reason.

don't forget that italian has very much regional variants influenced by the regional languages (and then there are some variants that are more frequent in a region, and other in another one, but both are "official italian"), and then don't forget that italian has an extremely rich litterature that genereted a lot variant of a lot of words..

And about truzzo being peculiar of Italian culture, it's somewhat offensive...

completamente d'accordo..