What are they saying here?

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Linguaphile
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What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-09, 0:08

What are they saying here, in #8?
http://keeleweb2.ut.ee/kursused/konsonandid/1167-harjutus-31-haaldus-ii
Anne ja Ando...? lendasid lennukiga...? ?? Without any context, I'm lost! I get that some people flew in an airplane somewhere, but I'm not sure where they went, and not sure if they are Anne ja Ando. The sounds blend together a bit too much for me here I guess.

Here is what I got from the other seven. It's #8 I'm really wondering about.
1. Konnad konutasid kõnniteel. The frogs sat unmoving (maybe something like "were camped out") on the sidewalk.
2. Vang istus kongis. The prisoner sat in the cell.
3. Vana Ann läks vanni. Old Ann went into the bathroom.
4. Tõnu on kange tantsulõvi. Tõnu's a great dancer (or "a real party animal" for dancing)
5. Anu andis vennale neli mängukanni. Anu gave her brother four toys/playthings.
6. Pane kana pannile. Put the chicken in the pan.
7. Anna mulle kana või hane muna. Give me a chicken or goose egg.
8. ??? Something about some people who flew someplace. :D

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-09, 7:41

Unfortunately this link doesn't work in any of my browsers. Although, I did find the page following the sections in the address.

Linguaphile wrote:3. Vana Ann läks vanni. Old Ann went into the bathroom.

I think the eight is Anne ja Ando lendasid lennukiga Bonni.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-09, 14:22

ainurakne wrote:Unfortunately this link doesn't work in any of my browsers. Although, I did find the page following the sections in the address.

Linguaphile wrote:3. Vana Ann läks vanni. Old Ann went into the bathroom.

I think the eight is Anne ja Ando lendasid lennukiga Bonni.


Ahhh, those short illatives of foreign place names!!! I kept hearing something like Ponni or Ponne and didn't know what it meant. It didn't even occur to me that I was hearing a B. Of course, Bonn makes sense.
Sorry about the link. Thanks for searching it out and for answering!

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-09, 15:39

No worries! :)
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-10, 0:13

Can I ask another one? My question this time is about #7 below.
http://keeleweb2.ut.ee/kursused/konsonandid/1168-harjutus-33-haaldus-ii (if the link works?) It is from Hääldusharjutused algtasemele > Konsonandid > Harjutus 33. Hääldus II at the Eesti keele ja kultuuri kursused http://keeleweb2.ut.ee/ site.

1. Ära võta seda kotti. Koti lukk on katki. > Don't take this bag. The bag's lock is broken.
2. Karp ei mahtunud kappi. Panin ta kapi peale. > The box didn't fit in the cabinet. I put it on top of the cabinet.
3. Vanad kuked ei sallinud uut kukke. > The old roosters don't tolerate the new rooster.
4. See on üks arutu jutt. Kes selle jutu välja mõtles? > This is a meaningless story. Who thought up this story?
5. Tahaksin lipu lauale panna, aga ei leia lippu kusagilt. > I'd like to put a flag on the table, but I can't find a flag anywhere.
6. Tänasin kokka, sest koka toit maitses hästi. > I thanked the cook, because the cook's food tasted good.
7. ??? ??? Meie... rumal... polnud... otsaga... sest... andis otsat... Not even going to attempt it. :|
8. Ta kannab musta jakki, jaki all aga punast pluusi. > She's wearing a black jacket, but under the jacket [she's wearing] a red blouse.

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-10, 8:08

Linguaphile wrote:3. Vanad kuked ei sallinud uut kukke. > The old roosters didn't tolerate the new rooster.
...
5. Tahaksin lipu lauale panna, aga ei leia lippu kusagilt. > I'd like to put a flag on the table, but I can't find a flag anywhere.
To me, the 5th sounds more like "the flag".

7th is Meie rõõmul polnud otsa ega äärt, sest diktaator andis otsad. (it's basically There was no end to our joy, because the dictator died.)

By the way, you can also use "otsa" in the second sentence: ".... Panin ta kapi otsa."
In my opinion, if one puts something kapi peale, then it's a lower cabinet, maybe somewhere around the height of one's groin or so. If kapi otsa, then high enough that one has to lift the thing up - maybe around the height of ones chest or face and up.

EDIT: ots
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-10, 15:01

Thanks!!!
ainurakne wrote:5. Tahaksin lipu lauale panna, aga ei leia lippu kusagilt. > I'd like to put a flag on the table, but I can't find a flag anywhere.
To me, the 5th sounds more like "the flag".[/quote]
Why? How do you hear this difference?

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-10, 15:37

Linguaphile wrote:Why? How do you hear this difference?
I don't know. Sounds like it. :para:

I think I would definitely add "ühtegi" to the second half of the sentence if any flag would do. Right now it sounds like she was looking for one specific flag. Although, the problem could be that they tend to repeat words extensively in these sentences. If it was "..., aga ei leia seda kusagilt.", then I would definitely know it's the flag and if it would be "..., aga ei leia ühtegi kusagilt." or "..., aga ei leia kusagilt ühtegi.", then a flag.

I think I would also rearrange the first part to "Tahaksin lauale lipu panna, ..." if any flag (a flag) would do; although, this could be just my personal perception of things.

(or maybe I'm not understanding English articles correctly and am speaking about the wrong thing?)
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-10, 17:20

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Why? How do you hear this difference?
I don't know. Sounds like it. :para:

I think I would definitely add "ühtegi" to the second half of the sentence if any flag would do. Right now it sounds like she was looking for one specific flag. Although, the problem could be that they tend to repeat words extensively in these sentences. If it was "..., aga ei leia seda kusagilt.", then I would definitely know it's the flag and if it would be "..., aga ei leia ühtegi kusagilt." or "..., aga ei leia kusagilt ühtegi.", then a flag.

I think I would also rearrange the first part to "Tahaksin lauale lipu panna, ..." if any flag (a flag) would do; although, this could be just my personal perception of things.

(or maybe I'm not understanding English articles correctly and am speaking about the wrong thing?)


You definitely understand English articles. It's just interesting to me since Estonian doesn't use definite/indefinite articles and I didn't realize there was any way to "hear" or know the difference in a sentence like this.
It occurs to me now that I didn't hesitate at all to translate "lauale" as "the table" i.e. it's obviously not "I would like to put the flag on a table," for example, so I guess even to me it's obvious some of the time.
The repetition of the words sounds strange in English too ("I would like to put the flag on the table, but I can't find the flag anywhere.") It should be "can't find it anywhere" or "can't find one anywhere" in English too, which I think is exactly the same as Estonian seda/ühtegi. I think they used the repetition just so they could have the contrast between lipu/lippu as a listening exercise.

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-10, 17:47

Hmm, now that you mention it, I think, on a table wouldn't be wrong either in this context. I wouldn't have probably even noticed if you'd have written on a table. I guess, in Estonian, it often just isn't important whether it's definite or indefinite or both at the same time. Like in that sentence: it's not a recurring 'thingy' in the sentence and I don't know the context either, so I just don't care about a/the table.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-12, 6:54

Thanks again! As I keep going through these exercises, is it okay if I keep asking you about the ones I'm not sure of?
If your answer is yes, here's another one:

http://keeleweb2.ut.ee/kursused/peatukk-1-haaldusharjutusi-kesktasemele/1198-harjutus-iii-ii
Hääldusharjutused kesk- ja kõrgtasemele > Peatükk 1 Hääldusharjutusi kesktasemele > Harjutus III-II

[here they are focused on words with the sounds j/i/ii/ij/jj, so, as usual, the meanings are a bit odd]
Two questions in particular - marked in read below. And, of course, any errors you see elsewhere!

1. Maias minia ostis üle saja saia > The sweet-toothed/epicurean daughter-in-law bought more than a hundred bread rolls. [I know sai can be any white bread, not just rolls, but if she's buying 100, I think they must be rolls!) :D
2. Jüripäeval süüakse saia > White bread is eaten on St. George's Day.
3. Maiu viis puuraiujatele süüa ja juua > Maiu brought food and drinks to the woodcutters.
4. Kas Tiit on Tiiu või Miia peiu? > Is Tiit Tiiu's or Miia's fiance?
5. Aiamajja viiakse angerjaid > [Some] eels are brought to the garden house.
6. Jaan on hoiufirmas asjaajaja :?: > Jaan is an assistant at a savings company. :?: Well, this (Jaan on hoiufirmas asjaajaja) is what it sounds like to me. But when I click on 'kontrolli' it tells me this isn't the correct transcription. What are they really saying?
7. Vesi loksus ojas loiult > The water moves sluggishly in the creek.
8. Lõime ojja üle viie vaia > We stuck more than five stakes into the creek. :?:

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-12, 17:09

Linguaphile wrote:1. Maias minia ostis üle saja saia > The sweet-toothed/epicurean daughter-in-law bought more than a hundred bread rolls. [I know sai can be any white bread, not just rolls, but if she's buying 100, I think they must be rolls!) :D
I guess they're indeed more likely saiakesed or väikesed pirukad than just regular loaves of white bread.

Linguaphile wrote:4. Kas Tiit on Tiiu või Miia peiu? > Is Tiit Tiiu's or Miia's fiance?
Isn't fiance too strict word? Or can fiance also be someone who hasn't officially declared the wedding nor been engaged to someone.

Linguaphile wrote:5. Aiamajja viiakse angerjaid > [Some] eels are brought to the garden house.
Or "[Some] eels are being brought to the garden house." ("There is some eel bringing going on, into the garden house." :silly: )

Linguaphile wrote:6. Jaan on hoiufirmas asjaajaja :?: > Jaan is an assistant at a savings company. :?: Well, this (Jaan on hoiufirmas asjaajaja) is what it sounds like to me. But when I click on 'kontrolli' it tells me this isn't the correct transcription. What are they really saying?
I can't hear anything else either. Could be just an error on their part.

Linguaphile wrote:8. Lõime ojja üle viie vaia > We stuck more than five stakes into the creek. :?:
Or "We rammed more than fives stakes into the creek."; probably to build something or attach something to them.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-12, 18:36

Thanks!

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:4. Kas Tiit on Tiiu või Miia peiu? > Is Tiit Tiiu's or Miia's fiance?
Isn't fiance too strict word? Or can fiance also be someone who hasn't officially declared the wedding nor been engaged to someone.

Honestly, I've never really understood how to translate peiu (and peigmees). Estonian-English dictionaries always give a translation of "bridegroom" or "groom, groomsman," but those words are even more specific or strict in their meanings: for the wedding day or the wedding events only. Fiance or fiancé is someone who is going to get married; they are engaged, the wedding has been declared. None of the dictionaries use it as a translation for peiu; it just seemed to make sense to me because the dictionary's "bridegroom" seemed much too specific.
These words seemed to be used more often (at least in folklore) and with broader meaning than their English "translations": peiu (bridegroom, groom), peigmees (bridegroom, groom), mõrsja (bride-to-be, bride); kosilane (suitor, courter).
EKSS gives two definitions for peigmees (for peiu it just says peigmees): abielluda kavatsev (ka kihlatud) mees (eriti oma pruudi suhtes); mees oma pulmas and austaja, kallim . So it seems the first one can be both "groom" and "fiancé" and the second one would be something like "admirer" or "sweetheart".
I chose "fiancé" simply because I wanted a word that would have broader meaning than "groom," but I guess I was thinking of the first definition only. Do you think "sweetheart" or "admirer" fits better? Or maybe "boyfriend"? Can a peiu be the same as poiss-sõber, kavaler, meessõber?

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-12, 20:52

Linguaphile wrote:Do you think "sweetheart" or "admirer" fits better? Or maybe "boyfriend"?
I guess, they could all fit. I think it really depends on how old these people actually are. But I'm afraid, I'm not able give a general translation either, without any context.
Linguaphile wrote:Can a peiu be the same as poiss-sõber, kavaler, meessõber?
I think so. Although, poiss-sõber and meesõber sound kind of alien. I think they are more recent words. When I was young then pruut and peigmees and such were mostly used for 'girlfriend' and 'boyfriend', especially so by older people.
Also, just tüdruk and poiss should be fairly common.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-12, 22:02

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Do you think "sweetheart" or "admirer" fits better? Or maybe "boyfriend"?
I guess, they could all fit. I think it really depends on how old these people actually are. But I'm afraid, I'm not able give a general translation either, without any context.
Linguaphile wrote:Can a peiu be the same as poiss-sõber, kavaler, meessõber?
I think so. Although, poiss-sõber and meesõber sound kind of alien. I think they are more recent words.

Loanwords maybe? When I was looking in the EKSS dictionary online, I noticed the word boyfriend is also there (as an Estonian word, an English loanword) along with poiss-sõber and meessõber.

ainurakne wrote:When I was young then pruut and peigmees and such were mostly used for 'girlfriend' and 'boyfriend', especially so by older people.

That's another one I should have listed earlier - pruut is translated in the dictionary as "bride; fiancée" (again with the marriage thing!) But for pruutpaar I really do think of a bride and groom dressed for the wedding; do you as well, or is that word not so specific either?

Edit: pruut

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-13, 8:21

Linguaphile wrote:Loanwords maybe?
Sure looks like they're based on the influence of English: after gaining the second independence and English and everything western got more and more popular. Although, could be something else and even older - basing an analysis on my childhood memories can't be very reliable.

Linguaphile wrote:But for pruutpaar I really do think of a bride and groom dressed for the wedding; do you as well, or is that word not so specific either?
I think this one is fairly specific. At least I don't think I have ever heard it in any other meaning.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-13, 21:44

Thank you as always!

Here's another one:
Hääldusharjutused kesk- ja kõrgtasemele > Peatükk 1 > Hääldusharjutusi kesktasemele > Harjutus VIII-V
"Sõna loetakse kaks korda eestipäraselt, üks kord vigaselt. Märkige ära õige (õ) ja vale vorm (v)."

I know what the right answers are, since it's fairly obvious that if I got an answer wrong, the correct answer should be the opposite. So, my question isn't about which answers are right. I would like to know how "wrong" the incorrect forms in this activity sound to a native or fluent speaker.
When I read the instructions I thought it was going to be a very easy exercise because I thought they would be using the wrong consonant sounds or stressing the second syllable or something, but actually the forms sound very similar to me, just something about length and intonation and articulation - I'm not even sure how to describe the difference between the "right" and "wrong" forms.
I got the first four wrong and then I guess I somehow got the hang of it because I got most of the others right, but I felt like I was guessing. I'm not really sure how I knew which were right.
Do the "wrong" forms sound very strange to you or is it something you might not even notice in conversation?

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby ainurakne » 2017-02-13, 22:24

The wrong ones have long vowel in their first syllable (muuna, vaari, peere, etc), the right ones are all short.

If not prepared, then the ones that don't form any known words (nor sound similar to any) when elongated, could be missed in a conversation, I guess. The ones that turn into other existing words (or have very similar sound patterns to some existing words) when elongated, are easy to notice.
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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-13, 22:57

ainurakne wrote:The wrong ones have long vowel in their first syllable (muuna, vaari, peere, etc), the right ones are all short.

Thanks, I can hear it now, even in those first four! I guess I just wasn't listening for that well enough. :ohwell:
You're in Estonia, right? Isn't it the middle of the night there?? :shock: I'm surprised you responded so quickly!

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Re: What are they saying here?

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-02-13, 23:55

Nevertheless, since it isn't the middle of the night here (more like 4:00 in the afternoon) and I had a day off from work today, here are some more! :whistle:
Hääldusharjutused kesk- ja kõrgtasemele > Peatükk 1 Hääldusharjutusi kesktasemele > Harjutus VIII-XI

1. Mida sa ütled? > What do you say?
2. Kui on õpikud, saame õppida. > If there are textbooks, we can learn/study.
3. Tema ratast on hiljuti parandatud > His bike has been recently repaired.
4. Sel võistlusel kindlad võitjad polnudki > In this competition there isn't a sure winner (but my computer tells me "Sel võistlusel kindlad võitjad polnudki" isn't what they are saying; what do you hear?)
5. Rongkäik liikus lippude lehvides väljakule. > The parade went into the square waving flags.
6. Suguvõsa suhtles kokkutulekul sõbralikult > The relatives interacted/talked amicably at the gathering.
7. ?? ?? really, I can't understand this one.
8. Õde jättis küsimustele vastamata > The sister/nurse left [the?] questions unanswered.
9. See mees räägib sageli mõttetusi. > This man often speaks nonsense.
10. Ta keetis suppi ja küpsetas kooki. > He boiled soup and baked a cake.


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