Estonian translation

[bmatt]

Tervist,

Could anyone out there help me out with the following Estonian paragraph?

****

Vastavalt keskkonnaministri 22. aprilli 2004.a. määrusega nr 24 "Majandustegevuse ajutise piirangute rakendamine väljaspool kaitsealasid asuvatel Natura 2000 võrgustiku aladel" p 4 on Natura 2000 Alal keelatud: 1) puhtpuistute kujundamine ja energiapuistute rajamine; 2) uuendusraie, välja arvatud turberaie perioodiga vähemalt 40 aastat; 3) väetiste ja mürkkemikaalide kasutamine looduslikul rohumaal ja metsamaal. Ala valitseja nõusolekuta on alal keelatud: 1) teede ja liinirajatiste rajamine; 2) ehitiste, kaasa arvatud ajutiste ehitiste püstitamine; 3) veekogude veetaseme muutmine ja nende kallaste kahjustamine; 4) uute maaparandussüsteemide rajamine; 5) maavarade ja maa-ainese kaevandamine.

****

Aitäh!!

Matt

[ltd]

Well, this is a somewhat sloppy translation, but it should give you a basic idea of what's it about.

According the regulation no.24 of 22th April 2004, by the
Ministry of Environment, ''Effectuation of temporary restrictions for
economic actions in the areas of the Natura 2000 net, which are
outside the protected areas'' point 4, on the Natura 2000 area, it is not allowed to:
1) ??? [Something about designing (eg. cutting) woods and constructing energywoods?)]
2) Use fertilizers or poisonous chemicals on natural grasses and forests.
Without the permission by the keeper of the area, it is not allowed to:
1) Construct roads and line-structures
2) Build structures (buildings), including temporary structures
3) Change the waterlevel of bodies of water and damage their banks (sides)
4) Construct new earth-correction-systems
5) Prospect, and dig for earth-products (?)

Palun!

[bmatt]

Thanks very much! I really appreciate it!!

Matt

[Tomcat]

Could anybody translate me these two sentences?

"X has entered the room"
"X has left the room"

Please mark or explain which words stand for "the room".

Thanks a lot in advance!

Tomcat

[eurooplane]

I’m not sure (maybe 90%), but I would translate it with :
Ta sisenes toasse - He/she has entered into the room.
Ta lahkus toast - He/she has left the room.

The word for room is tuba but the genitive is toa.

eurooplane.

[Tomcat]

Thanks a lot for your help. I need this for a chat I've been setting up - I want all the chat messages in as many languages as possible. So how would the following be in Estonian?

X has entered the chat
X has left the chat

Thanks again
and best regards,

Tomcat

[eurooplane]

Unfortunately, I don't know the word for 'chat'.
Moreover, I've just noticed you posted it in the "Translation Forum" and Loiks answered differently...
Well, you could forget my last post, because it's less exact.

Sorry!

[ltd]

Thanks a lot for your help. I need this for a chat I've been setting up - I want all the chat messages in as many languages as possible. So how would the following be in Estonian?

X has entered the chat
X has left the chat

Thanks again
and best regards,

Tomcat

X sisenes jututuppa
X lahkus jututoast

jututuba stands for chatroom.

[Loiks]

I add some comments here: eurooplane's variant is not grammatically wrong, but in this context almost all Estonians use the so-called short illative which is produced via gradation: tuba - tuppa (third grade, pp is pronounced very long, but ! no aspiration). Another example: maja (house) - majja (a very long ij sound). There have been some linguists that claim that this short illative is even longer than usual third grade and so makes up the fourth grade! But I guess such a classification makes our already extremely difficult gradation system even harder to understand .

[Ada H.]

In accordance with article 4 of Regulation No 24 of 22.04.2004 of the Minister of the Environment "Implementation of Temporary Restrictions on Economic Activities in the Natura 2000 Network Areas Outside the Conservation Areas" it is forbidden on the Natura 2000 areas: 1) to design pure stands and plant energy forests; 2) to perform regeneration cutting, excluding shelterwood cutting with the period no less than 40 years; 3) to use fertilizers and toxic chemicals on natural grassland and forest land. Without the permisson from the administrator of the area it is forbidden 1) to construct of roads and line facilities; 2) to construct buildings, including temporary buildings; 3) to alter the water level of bodies of water and damage their coasts; 4) to construct new land improvement (melioration) systems; 5) to extract mineral resources and earth substances.

http://www.legaltext.ee
http://mt.legaltext.ee/esterm/

[eurooplane]

As concern long illative, it's more evident for a non-native and that's why I didn't try with short illative But it's certainly more understandable with a right long illative than a wrong short illative, isnt it? .

tuba - tuppa (third grade, pp is pronounced very long, but ! no aspiration)

What do you mean with 'no aspiration' ?

[Ada H.]

I would say that only the short illative seems correct here. No native speaker would ever say "toasse" when talking about spatial movement. However, long illatives can be used in certain cases with verbs like "suhtuma", "armuma", "süvenema" etc. For example "Ma lähen linna" - always with short illative. But "Ma armusin sellesse linnasse" is correct.

[aabram]

What do you mean with 'no aspiration' ?

Exactly what it says - you shouldn't aspirate these double consonants. It means you pronounce pp, not ph. It's "tuppa", not "tuppha". The aspirated consonant is pronounced with a puff of air, which you, in this case, shouldn't do. Let the p die in your mouth and open it just in time for last a.

[Ada H.]

Another interesting thing about long and short illative: take the words 'lagi' and 'nagi'. "Ma riputan lambi lakke" vs. "ma riputan mantli nagisse".

[Loiks]

heh, but those words are from different types! lagi, lae, lage; nagi, nagi, nagi! (ma mõtlen sõnatüüpe )

[eurooplane]

Is there a way to know which type a word belong to?
Lagi and nagi have the same ending…

[Loiks]

You have to learn every single word with its principal forms! Genitive will do: lagi:lae, nagi:nagi. You'll need also partitive: lage; nagi; and illative: lakke or laesse; nakki(hardly used but theoretically possible) or nagisse. Also part. pl. could be useful to know: lagesid; nagisid; but for instance jalgu.

So, as a conclusion, for a noun you should learn at once:

Nom. sg. lagi; nagi
Gen. sg. lae; nagi
Part. sg. lage; nagi
Ill. sg. lakke/laesse; nagisse

Gen. pl. lagede; nagide
Part. pl. lagesid; nagisid

Other cases are produced from those 'very simple' principal forms

The word lagi has quality gradation, the word nagi has no gradation

I love difficulties, do you?

[eurooplane]

I love difficulties, do you?

Yeah! “ Why make simple when one can make complicated?” (Do you have this proverb too in Estonian?)

I’d read somewhere (I cannot found where), that latin people particularly love general rules when they learn a language.

Indeed, here is what happened in my latin brain:
reisimine - G: reisimise.
so: -ine give –mise
And Eestlane - G:Eestlase
-ane => -ase
Thus, more generally, -ne give -se for genitive.
But no! Such a generalization is wrong.



Same for verbs:
valama – ma valan
so –lama give –lan

valama – valada
-lama give –lada

kuulama? easy: ma kuulan; kuulada.
But no! Kuulata!

I have to admit there is something which makes us looking for general rules.

[Loiks]

Indeed, here is what happened in my latin brain:
reisimine - G: reisimise.
so: -ine give –mise
And Eestlane - G:Eestlase
-ane => -ase
Thus, more generally, -ne give -se for genitive.
But no! Such a generalization is wrong.

Certain words that have -ne and -s endings really belong into the same declination paradigm. With -mine we can derive a noun from a verb: reisima - reisimine and with -lane (not -ane) we produce names of nations or habitants of places. But sometimes a word just happens to end with -ne, like kõne, for instance, and its genitive is kõne.

Same for verbs:
valama – ma valan
so –lama give –lan

valama – valada
-lama give –lada

kuulama? easy: ma kuulan; kuulada.
But no! Kuulata!

As you found out yourself that is not a rule. There are no words with any certain -lama suffix. The verbs have stems like vala-, kuula-.

I have to admit there is something which makes us looking for general rules.

That's why we have Õigekeelsussõnaraamat ('Right Language Dictionary') where every word has a little number which indicates a type word. At the end of the dictionary all the necessary forms of all the types are given.

[apkiautėlis]

Tere, could anyone translate this cool song by Terminaator? The title is "Hall maailm" ("Grey world") .

Ausõna olen olnud mõned päevad üleval
Ja vahtind sahisevat telekat
Ma olen harjund sellega mis välja teenitud
Kuid ootan siiski miskit enamat
Ma olen näinud värve mida keegi teine
Selles ilmas näha kunagi ei saa
Olen värvipime sellepärast julgengi ma vaadata
Sinu halli maailama
Kuhu sattusin kord ma
Enam välja siit ei oska tulla ega taha
Sellepärast olengi siin ma
Jaa

Ausõna olen tundnud et ma olen suremas
Ja miskipärast see ei üllata
Ma olen teinud patte mida keegi teine
Parem ärgu hakakugi proovima
Ma olen tantsind tangot pimedas Pariisis
Olen draakoniga püüdnud võidelda
Siis kui hommik pillub kiiri une lõppedes ma leian ennast taas…

Sinu hallis maailmas
Kuhu sattusin kord ma
Enam välja siit ei oska tulla ega taha
Sellepärast olengi siin ma

Ausõna olen tundnud et ma olen suremas ja
Miskipärast see ei üllata
Ma olen teinud patte mida keegi teine
Parem ärgu hakakugi proovima
Ma olen näinud värve mida keegi teine selles ilmas näha kunagi ei saa
Olen värvipime sellepärast julgengi ma vaadata…
Sinu halli maailma…