Racism

[Aurinĭa]

Yasna, please provide an English translation or summary.

[linguoboy]

And actually learn a thing or two about racism while you're at it. And maybe think again about just how wise it is to cite Germans as an authoritative source on racism against white people, given certain historical events.

Sorry, Vijay, but I can't see eye-to-eye with you on this. Overall, Germany is no more racist than other European countries and considerably better than some (particularly when it comes to acceptance of refugees). Moreover, Yasna is correct in calling FAZ a highly-respected paper (if one with a pronounced centre-right bent).

But I agree that this article makes the common mistake of equating "racism" with "racial bigotry". Kids getting pummeled on the street is a problem regardless of the motivations, as is the fact that he felt he wouldn't get support from the authorities. But I don't see the highlighted bits making the case for a widespread institutional bias against White victims of bullying in particular. (Baldly asserting that there are "tens of thousands" more cases without citing a single statistic is lazy, untrustworthy journalism.)

[Car]

And actually learn a thing or two about racism while you're at it. And maybe think again about just how wise it is to cite Germans as an authoritative source on racism against white people, given certain historical events.

Sorry, Vijay, but I can't see eye-to-eye with you on this. Overall, Germany is no more racist than other European countries and considerably better than some (particularly when it comes to acceptance of refugees). Moreover, Yasna is correct in calling FAZ a highly-respected paper (if one with a pronounced centre-right bent).

Moreover, Die Zeit had an article on that topic as well and they're not only highly respected, but leftist/liberal:
http://www.zeit.de/2010/41/Schule-Mobbing-Gewalt

Although it very much is a taboo and anyone who dares to speak about their experiences with it is very likely to be called a nazi, a racist etc.

[vijayjohn]

Sorry, Vijay, but I can't see eye-to-eye with you on this. Overall, Germany is no more racist than other European countries and considerably better than some (particularly when it comes to acceptance of refugees). Moreover, Yasna is correct in calling FAZ a highly-respected paper (if one with a pronounced centre-right bent).

I know. All I was really trying to say was that the claim that one article in it says that tens of thousands of white people are victims of racism in their own country - as opposed to racial bigotry - isn't exactly conclusive evidence that they are. And I think anyone praising a German newspaper for being supposedly brave in taking on the issue should definitely think twice about doing that especially given the history of Germany (plus the fact that there are still Holocaust survivors alive, even trials relating to the Holocaust have not ended, etc.).

Although it very much is a taboo and anyone who dares to speak about their experiences with it is very likely to be called a nazi, a racist etc.

Exactly. So what would most Germans in this day and age say about Yasna's last two posts if they saw and read them?

[Meera]

I'm late to this thread, but I do think there is a racism to white people. This is mostly just coming from my family because my family openly mocks and are pretty racist to white people. I have had white friends come to my house and the stuff my family would say was pretty deplorable. My mom was once freaking out over a white drinking from a cup in our house because Afghans believe that white girls are "dirty".

[vijayjohn]

I think we're using slightly different definitions of "racism" here (sorry, have I already mentioned this before? I kind of get a feeling of déjà vu here, but I'm not sure why).

[linguoboy]

American racism toward Afghanis: 26,000 civilian casualties since 2001
Afghani racism toward White Americans: Some Afghanis are rude toward you when you visit them

No, those two phenomena are totally comparable.

[uzferry]

American racism toward Afghanis: 26,000 civilian casualties since 2001
Afghani racism toward White Americans: Some Afghanis are rude toward you when you visit them

No, those two phenomena are totally comparable.

Was the war really ignited by the racism itself?

[Meera]

American racism toward Afghanis: 26,000 civilian casualties since 2001
Afghani racism toward White Americans: Some Afghanis are rude toward you when you visit them

No, those two phenomena are totally comparable.

There are other things as well, my cousins would never hire a white/black/asian person to work in their restaurant. And I know other Afghan businesses who do the same thing. That is racism. And thinking all white and black women are dirty, isn't racist? I know if I said that in public about a black person that would be called "racist". Also imagine a white or black person trying to survive in southern Afghanistan, I doubt they would make out alive. Not to mention how racist Afghans are to Hazara's in their own country because they look Asian.

Also I don't think the war was racist at all or had racist motives. Many Afghans themselves have helped the US and fought with them. The Taliban was a horrible group and I am glad the Americans tried to get rid of them. I really don't think anyone understands what it is actually like to live under the Taliban. They were also actually pretty racist. Like I mentioned before they massacre hazaras just because they look Asian. They aren't nice people. and Afghans have been killing each other years before that.

[Car]

Sorry, Vijay, but I can't see eye-to-eye with you on this. Overall, Germany is no more racist than other European countries and considerably better than some (particularly when it comes to acceptance of refugees). Moreover, Yasna is correct in calling FAZ a highly-respected paper (if one with a pronounced centre-right bent).

I know. All I was really trying to say was that the claim that one article in it says that tens of thousands of white people are victims of racism in their own country - as opposed to racial bigotry - isn't exactly conclusive evidence that they are. And I think anyone praising a German newspaper for being supposedly brave in taking on the issue should definitely think twice about doing that especially given the history of Germany (plus the fact that there are still Holocaust survivors alive, even trials relating to the Holocaust have not ended, etc.).

That's assuming that they actually make that distinction between racism and racial bigotry or agree with it. Based on what I read from them over the years, I can't see any evidence for that.

Although it very much is a taboo and anyone who dares to speak about their experiences with it is very likely to be called a nazi, a racist etc.

Exactly. So what would most Germans in this day and age say about Yasna's last two posts if they saw and read them?[/quote]
That depends on people's views, but mostly, it'd be the kind of name-calling I mentioned.

[linguoboy]

American racism toward Afghanis: 26,000 civilian casualties since 2001
Afghani racism toward White Americans: Some Afghanis are rude toward you when you visit them

No, those two phenomena are totally comparable.

Was the war really ignited by the racism itself?

How many European countries has the US invaded because they sheltered terrorists who carried out attacks on US citizens? How many drone attacks has the US carried out in Europe or the Americas? How much more compensation has the US Government paid for non-Afghan victims of mistaken identity or racially-motivated attacks.

Also I don't think the war was racist at all or had racist motives. Many Afghans themselves have helped the US and fought with them.

Black slaves aided the Confederacy in the US Civil War and several thousand fought with them.

The Taliban was a horrible group and I am glad the Americans tried to get rid of them. I really don't think anyone understands what it is actually like to live under the Taliban. They were also actually pretty racist. Like I mentioned before they massacre hazaras just because they look Asian. They aren't nice people. and Afghans have been killing each other years before that.

Which is all true, but that doesn't mean that either the decision to invade Afghanistan nor the way in which that invasion has actually been carried out were free from racist motives.

There are other things as well, my cousins would never hire a white/black/asian person to work in their restaurant. And I know other Afghan businesses who do the same thing. That is racism. And thinking all white and black women are dirty, isn't racist? I know if I said that in public about a black person that would be called "racist". Also imagine a white or black person trying to survive in southern Afghanistan, I doubt they would make out alive. Not to mention how racist Afghans are to Hazara's in their own country because they look Asian.

I don't doubt that many Afghanis are racially bigoted or that there's a lot of racism against minorities in Afghanistan. They're part of the human race, after all. But it doesn't really make sense to talk about Afghan "racism" against White people in the USA when White people hold almost all the advantages here and Afghanis very few. How many White people would even want to work in an Afghan restaurant? Most of us don't even want to work for restaurants owned by other White people, which is why (for instance) the majority of kitchen workers in Chicago are Hispanic and most of the rest are Black or Asian. (When you look at the race of chefs in Chicago, however, the picture is very different.)

How does Afghanis being bigoted against White people affect my life, as a White person, in any material way? I hardly ever patronise Afghan businesses and if I wanted to avoid them entirely I'd have a vast array of other choices. How easy is it, by contrast, for Afghanis here to avoid White bigotry? Even if they live in non-White enclaves, work for non-White enterprises, and patronise their own businesses, they still have to interact with a White-dominated (and pro-White biased) police force, educational system, legal system, media, etc. Even if they didn't have to use public thoroughfares from time to time, they would still have to worry about being attacked in their homes by White extremists.

[uzferry]

American racism toward Afghanis: 26,000 civilian casualties since 2001
Afghani racism toward White Americans: Some Afghanis are rude toward you when you visit them

No, those two phenomena are totally comparable.

Was the war really ignited by the racism itself?

How many European countries has the US invaded because they sheltered terrorists who carried out attacks on US citizens? How many drone attacks has the US carried out in Europe or the Americas?

I don't know, probably none. But if any European country carried out a terrorist attack against US and was also home to one of the world's biggest terrorist organization, wouldn't the exact same war happen regardless of race?
And I haven't done any research on this topic, but AFAIK in complex situations like this, civilian casualties are almost certainly unavoidable

[vijayjohn]

Al-Qaeda is a global terrorist organization, so I don't think it makes sense to claim that it has a home. The closest thing I see to anyone claiming it does is one claim that it is led from across the border in Pakistan. Its primary source of funding is apparently Saudi Arabia, and that country also at least used to be one of the main countries that its members came from, yet the US never attacked it and instead chose to make it their ally because oil money.

[mōdgethanc]

Questions exclusively for non-white people: do you agree with the notion that racism can only be perpetrated by white people? I can understand the reasoning behind it in a white-majority society, but does it make sense in other contexts, such as a culture where the majority is not white? It occurred to me that racism seems to be held to a more stringent standard than sexism is. I've never heard anyone say that sexism can only be perpetrated by men, or deny that women can be sexist, but outside of manosphere websites I doubt many people would deny that sexist affects women much more than men. Essentially, I'm asking if this is comparable to racism or not. Do you (again, all of this is only intended for non-white people) feel that racism against white people is a real problem, or even exists? The reason I ask is because I hear this idea propagated exclusively by white activists and I don't think it's up to whites to tell other people what is racist or not.

[Koko]

Questions exclusively for non-white people: do you agree with the notion that racism can only be perpetrated by white people?

Absolutely not. Racism has no one victim, and no one attacker.

I can understand the reasoning behind it in a white-majority society, but does it make sense in other contexts, such as a culture where the majority is not white?

This is where it makes the most sense, but I refuse to agree it doesn't exist in white-majority societies.

Essentially, I'm asking if this is comparable to racism or not.

Yes.

Do you (again, all of this is only intended for non-white people) feel that racism against white people is a real problem, or even exists?

Racism against any group is a problem, and it most definitely exists against white people.

The reason I ask is because I hear this idea propagated exclusively by white activists and I don't think it's up to whites to tell other people what is racist or not.

Amen. They need to shut their faces and let us speak.

[mōdgethanc]

Thanks for providing your input, Koko. I didn't know you were a person of colour.

[Koko]

You're welcome ^^ My skin is fairly tan, and even without the sun I'm one of the darkest people of my friends group (who are basically all Irish or Scottish).

[mōdgethanc]

You're welcome ^^ My skin is fairly tan, and even without the sun I'm one of the darkest people of my friends group (who are basically all Irish or Scottish).

What is your background? I thought you were Italian for some reason.

[Koko]

I'm half-Cree, which often leads to me being mistaken for Chinese or Japanese Given how much I talk about my Italian heritage (25%) though, it's understandable you'd think that [was all]. So I'm not entirely non-white, but my most apparent features are Cree (high cheekbones, tan skin, dark and thick hair, dark brown eyes, pretty tall*).

* this could also be associated with being Northern Italian

[linguoboy]

The reason I ask is because I hear this idea propagated exclusively by white activists and I don't think it's up to whites to tell other people what is racist or not.

What race do you think Vijay is?

What race do you think Aamer Rahman is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M