Racism

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vijayjohn
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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-05-28, 4:54

Prowler wrote:I guess. I mean it seems tons of Americans have German ancestry.

My parents have a Malayalee friend who lives in California with his white (possibly WASP) wife. They have two children. Once when they were younger, the oldest one said to my brother, "You know what the problem is with this country? Too many immigrants!"

People can be descended from people who come from a certain country and still be prejudiced against people who come from that country. At some point, when you're not really in the minority, the connection between your family and that country becomes rather tenuous.
Seems more common than Anglo Saxon ancestry. Are there even many of what you'd call WASPs in USA nowadays?

Apparently, the population of WASPs has been declining these days, so maybe not that many, but it's kind of hard to say since the distinction doesn't even seem to be all that relevant anymore (yes, even with the remarks about German being a Nazi language and such).
Oddly enough it seems every President except Obama(half-black) and Kennedy(fully/mostly Irish Catholic I think) have fit that category.

Nope. Van Buren was of Dutch descent, Eisenhower was of German descent, Monroe was of Scottish and Welsh descent, the Roosevelts were of Dutch, Scottish, Scots-Irish, English, German, Welsh, and French descent...
Although I've heard Trump is of German ancestry is that correct?

On his father's side yes, on his mother's side no (she's Scottish).
Freedom fries? I had totally forgotten about that. It seems many Americans consider the french cowards and ungrateful for World War 2. As if it was that easy to stop Nazi Germany from invading and taking over your own country. :silly:

And I forgot about that.
I wonder how Americans in general feel about Japan.

Weeb country? :P

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Re: Racism

Postby Prowler » 2017-05-28, 5:02

Oh right. Of course Eisenhower is a German name. Silly me. Forgot about Van Buren. I only know his name thanks to Seinfeld. No idea who Monroe was tbh.

Hadn't realised Roosevelt was Dutch among other things. Tbh his last name is kind of "exotic" and doesn't sound very English-like.

Ah weebs... well anime isn't actually mainstream in Japan. And being a "weeb" there is even worse socially speaking. The mainstream anime in Japan are the same ones in the rest of the world pretty much: DBZ, Naruto, etc. Ofc there's some anime that's popular in Japan but no so much in the rest of the world or other countries. Doraemon is basically unknown outside Japan except in Portugal and in Spain.

Before anime what got Europeans and Americans into East Asian pop culture were martial arts flicks I think. Anime didn't come until later. It had some success in Italy and France in the 80s but didn't become big among European and American youths until around the 90s and turn of the century. No idea about Latin America but it seems anime/manga are quite big there as are video games(as in passionate gaming communities).

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Re: Racism

Postby Prowler » 2017-09-02, 20:31

Image

Never heard of such study. It was mentioned on a newspaper. Here is the link: https://www.publico.pt/2017/09/02/socie ... mo-1783934

Well one must always take these sort of studies with a grain of salt. It's interesting how certain people confirm their stereotypes and others don't at all. I bet everyone expected Poland to be top 5 in both categories, but turns out they're not. :whistle:

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Re: Racism

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-09-02, 22:47

Wait, so, for instance, if I say that a culture where women and LGBT people have equal rights is better than one where they don't, am I a "cultural racist" according to that study?

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-02, 23:26

IpseDixit wrote:Wait, so, for instance, if I say that a culture where women and LGBT people have equal rights is better than one where they don't, am I a "cultural racist" according to that study?

Okay, I don't know about that study, but this is just my opinion.

I think it depends on what you mean by that. If you're labeling the whole culture as better or worse just because of the situation of women and LGBT people within that culture, then I think that's racist because it doesn't mean that everyone in that culture shares the same views on such people. (After all, the women and LGBT people also happen to share that culture). But if you're saying that it's bad that women and LGBT people don't have equal rights within certain cultures, then I don't.

Basically, the important thing as I see it is: Do you actually know what you're talking about, or are you just saying something you know nothing about is bad?
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2017-09-03, 2:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Racism

Postby Yasna » 2017-09-02, 23:53

Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 0:04


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Re: Racism

Postby Prowler » 2017-09-03, 2:03

Yasna wrote:Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:

Isn't gastronomy a part of culture as well? :lol:

I had never seen the term "cultural racism" before, but I guess it's just another synonym for xenophobia. I mean, usually when people don't like certain nationality or ethnic group they tend to dislike their culture as well.

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 2:15

Prowler wrote:
Yasna wrote:Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:

Isn't gastronomy a part of culture as well? :lol:

Yep. This is a thing.

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Re: Racism

Postby Prowler » 2017-09-03, 2:26

vijayjohn wrote:
Prowler wrote:
Yasna wrote:Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:

Isn't gastronomy a part of culture as well? :lol:

Yep. This is a thing.

Well maybe the guy just didn't like the food. He also doesn't seem to like Irish and polish cuisine. Doesn't seem to be "culinary racism" lol

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 2:32

Prowler wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Prowler wrote:
Yasna wrote:Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:

Isn't gastronomy a part of culture as well? :lol:

Yep. This is a thing.

Well maybe the guy just didn't like the food. He also doesn't seem to like Irish and polish cuisine. Doesn't seem to be "culinary racism" lol

He labeled an entire country's cuisine as "the worst in the world" just because he didn't like what he had of it, and he's clearly been involved in at least one controversy regarding racist slurs before.

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Re: Racism

Postby Prowler » 2017-09-03, 2:36

vijayjohn wrote:
Prowler wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Prowler wrote:
Yasna wrote:Cultural racism? :lol:

What's next... culinary racism? :roll:

Isn't gastronomy a part of culture as well? :lol:

Yep. This is a thing.

Well maybe the guy just didn't like the food. He also doesn't seem to like Irish and polish cuisine. Doesn't seem to be "culinary racism" lol

He labeled an entire country's cuisine as "the worst in the world" just because he didn't like what he had of it, and he's clearly been involved in at least one controversy regarding racist slurs before.

So he's one of those guys who make a living out of controversial remarks that spark media attention?

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 2:39

Perhaps.

IpseDixit

Re: Racism

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-09-03, 7:11

vijayjohn wrote:I think it depends on what you mean by that. If you're labeling the whole culture as better or worse just because of the situation of women and LGBT people within that culture, then I think that's racist because it doesn't mean that everyone in that culture shares the same views on such people.


Am I racist if I think that a culture where, say, 90% of the people is in favour of equality for women and LGBT people is better than one where only 10% is?

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 7:16

IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I think it depends on what you mean by that. If you're labeling the whole culture as better or worse just because of the situation of women and LGBT people within that culture, then I think that's racist because it doesn't mean that everyone in that culture shares the same views on such people.


Am I racist if I think that a culture where, say, 90% of the people is in favour of equality for women and LGBT people is better than one where only 10% is?

I don't see why the proportions should matter. No matter what they are, that still doesn't justify labeling 100% of the culture as better or worse.

So, yes.

IpseDixit

Re: Racism

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-09-03, 7:31

vijayjohn wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I think it depends on what you mean by that. If you're labeling the whole culture as better or worse just because of the situation of women and LGBT people within that culture, then I think that's racist because it doesn't mean that everyone in that culture shares the same views on such people.


Am I racist if I think that a culture where, say, 90% of the people is in favour of equality for women and LGBT people is better than one where only 10% is?

I don't see why the proportions should matter. No matter what they are, that still doesn't justify labeling 100% of the culture as better or worse.


Sorry but a culture where the overwhelming majority of people believes in equal rights is definitely better than one where only a slim minority does. I really don't see how this is even arguable. It might not be 100% better (I'm not even sure what that means) but it's still a lot better.

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 7:41

IpseDixit wrote:Sorry but a culture where the overwhelming majority of people believes in equal rights is definitely better than one where only a slim minority does. I really don't see how this is even arguable.

Because you're ignoring all other aspects of the culture in question while painting the entire culture with a broad brush due to one aspect of it. After all, if the problem is that women and LGBT people are not treated equally within a culture, that culture is also theirs; it is not only the culture of those who discriminate against them. Of course they're not going to appreciate an aspect of their culture that they feel makes them discriminated against, but there are other aspects of the culture they live in besides that, which they probably do identify with. When you say everything about a culture is bad, then you're ignoring the fact that there are also good aspects to the culture that have nothing to do with discriminating against women or LGBT people and that said people do appreciate.

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Re: Racism

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-09-03, 8:04

vijayjohn wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Sorry but a culture where the overwhelming majority of people believes in equal rights is definitely better than one where only a slim minority does. I really don't see how this is even arguable.

Because you're ignoring all other aspects of the culture in question while painting the entire culture with a broad brush due to one aspect of it. After all, if the problem is that women and LGBT people are not treated equally within a culture, that culture is also theirs; it is not only the culture of those who discriminate against them. Of course they're not going to appreciate an aspect of their culture that they feel makes them discriminated against, but there are other aspects of the culture they live in besides that, which they probably do identify with. When you say everything about a culture is bad, then you're ignoring the fact that there are also good aspects to the culture that have nothing to do with discriminating against women or LGBT people and that said people do appreciate.


Yes, I do realize that. A culture is the sum of innumerable things and probably also a murky concept, however not all aspects of a culture have equal importance, IMO. How people are treated is way more important than many other factors.

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Re: Racism

Postby Saim » 2017-09-03, 8:11

IpseDixit wrote:Sorry but a culture where the overwhelming majority of people believes in equal rights is definitely better than one where only a slim minority does. I really don't see how this is even arguable. It might not be 100% better (I'm not even sure what that means) but it's still a lot better.


You're making your appraisal based on a single metric that's relevant to you. Which you know, fair enough: I could say the same thing about the lack of antiracism and antifascism in Poland. Once you go towards saying that this is an objective or universal appraisal, and that one culture is on the whole better than another one based on this one factor, you're wading into dangerous territory in my view.

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Re: Racism

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-03, 8:25

IpseDixit wrote:Yes, I do realize that. A culture is the sum of innumerable things and probably also a murky concept, however not all aspects of a culture have equal importance, IMO. How people are treated is way more important than many other factors.

"Way more important" in what sense and to who? I mean, I think the opinions of the people being mistreated are way more important than what anybody else thinks about it. Some of us have actually talked about this before; some of us do come from cultures where women and LGBT people are not treated so great, but that doesn't mean we like it when people say our whole culture is bad.

Besides, you also realize that cultures are not static, right? Just because women and LGBT people in certain parts of the world are not treated so great now doesn't mean they won't be later or even that they weren't treated better in the past. Certain European countries have seen improvements in the way that women and LGBT people there are treated, but that's just the thing; they're improvements. They were not always as safe in those countries as they are now. And if you don't give other cultures also a chance to change, then you're just allowing the worst parts of it to fester.

Let me give you a personal example: I'm Indian. I also happen to be kinda gay. Indians for the most part don't approve of people who are at all gay. I don't dare come out to my own family because I have an uncle who is rather conservative and would probably not want to have anything to do with me, might prevent me from talking to my cousins (his children) ever again, and could even try to threaten or kill me if he found out. Do I like this particular aspect of Indian culture? Of course not.

Does that mean I would say that therefore (the entire) "Indian culture is bad"? Absolutely not - if anything, I self-identify more strongly as an Indian than as a not-totally-straight person. After all, you can't tell from looking at me whether I'm straight or gay or whatever, but you can sure as hell tell I'm Indian. I love so many other things about the culture I grew up in, and they're all way more important to me than who I get to admit I like fucking. And in any case, I actually see that there is also a generational difference to some extent; I see that younger Indians are increasingly more likely to accept LGBT people and, to some extent, to admit that our culture currently shits on women a lot. Of course these liberal-minded people are only so much of the population, but the fact that these feminist views seem to be growing amongst younger people especially is definitely a good sign IMO.


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