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vijayjohn wrote:I figured I'd read the Wikipedia article eventually anyway, but thanks!dEhiN wrote:Eschatology basically is theology that deals with the last days; things like what's found in the Biblical book of Revelations, etc.
Oh good, so it isn't a native speaker of Spanish trying to say "scatology" and throwing in an extra h just because it's from Greek.
vijayjohn wrote:Lol, no, they have completely different etymologies (despite both being from Greek).
dEhiN wrote:Haha, we've been discoursing for so long I forget what the original points were. Vijay, I understand your point now, and yeah you're right: it's totally possible to be forced to assent to something and then later come to believe. (I don't consider saying yes when forced as equal to actual belief, but more assenting because of the external pressure).
Vlürch and księż, I think I actually agree with you two. I guess because I grew up indoctrined in Evangelical Protestantism, there are times when the things I used to believe without question still get triggered and I start to believe it again without questioning. And I think I also believed that modern missionary work, at least within Protestant Christianity, had changed sufficiently from its historical approach to not be considered to be a forcing of others. But perhaps I'm wrong; perhaps it hasn't changed that much due to an inherent flawed belief.
Actually, a recent example of that indoctrination being triggered is when księż said he doesn't necessarily see accepting the Jesus dies for me as being "Christian". My initial internal reaction was what I've heard in so many Evangelical sermons: a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus' death and resurrection, and anyone who doesn't believe in that isn't a Christian. I fucking hate that indoctrination! It's times like this that I question why I'm still attending an Evangelical church!?!?
On a separate, but related note, I know that for Christians the belief about propogating their belief stems from what's called The Great Commission. Basically in the Bible, Jesus says to his disciples, just before he ascends back into heaven after his resurrection, to go and make disciples of all nations. But this discussion on here has got me wondering whether the usualy view that the only way to fulfill that commission is active missionary work, whether that view is the only possible interpretation. I've never heard of any other Christian (Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox) questioning this before, but couldn't one interpretation be something along the lines of what Vlürch and księż believe: having a discussion among equals? Or another interpretation might be to approach things how I prefer to: not actively propogating, but only sharing my experiences if someone comes to me asking for help with their life. I don't know why Christians throughout history have interpreted this Great Commission as meaning to actively propogate the belief, to the point of forced conversions. Perhaps because of the usage of the imperative form of "go"?
dEhiN wrote:vijayjohn wrote:I figured I'd read the Wikipedia article eventually anyway, but thanks!dEhiN wrote:Eschatology basically is theology that deals with the last days; things like what's found in the Biblical book of Revelations, etc.
Oh good, so it isn't a native speaker of Spanish trying to say "scatology" and throwing in an extra h just because it's from Greek.
Lol, not as far as I know. I haven't looked up the etymology, though I say it as /eskətɔləd͡ʒi/ or [ɛskətʰɔləd͡ʒi].
Vlürch wrote:There's nothing inherently mutually exclusive about beliefs that seem to contradict each other. Paradoxes are commonly used to describe how incomprehensible God is, and although I understand it's meant metaphorically and those kinds of things are intended to strengthen one's faith, the fact is that there is no 100% objective evidence of the existence of anything supernatural or spiritual.
dEhiN wrote:Actually, a recent example of that indoctrination being triggered is when księż said he doesn't necessarily see accepting the Jesus dies for me as being "Christian". My initial internal reaction was what I've heard in so many Evangelical sermons: a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus' death and resurrection, and anyone who doesn't believe in that isn't a Christian. I fucking hate that indoctrination!
On a separate, but related note, I know that for Christians the belief about propogating their belief stems from what's called The Great Commission. Basically in the Bible, Jesus says to his disciples, just before he ascends back into heaven after his resurrection, to go and make disciples of all nations. But this discussion on here has got me wondering whether the usualy view that the only way to fulfill that commission is active missionary work, whether that view is the only possible interpretation. I've never heard of any other Christian (Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox) questioning this before, but couldn't one interpretation be something along the lines of what Vlürch and księż believe: having a discussion among equals?
kevin wrote:Vlürch wrote:There's nothing inherently mutually exclusive about beliefs that seem to contradict each other. Paradoxes are commonly used to describe how incomprehensible God is, and although I understand it's meant metaphorically and those kinds of things are intended to strengthen one's faith, the fact is that there is no 100% objective evidence of the existence of anything supernatural or spiritual.
So you mean that you could reasonably believe at the same time that "X exists" and "X doesn't exist"? That's certainly a stance that I hadn't expected.
kevin wrote:But while I agree that many things are open to interpretation, I'm not sure what a Christianity without certain things like Jesus' death and resurrection should look like. It's like the core is missing. You'd also invalidate more or less the whole New Testament, because most books in it mention them or one way or another, so they would be in conflict. After getting rid of that, too, what's left of the Christian message?
Vlürch wrote:I don't care if everyone calls me insane and overprivileged, that internet cutting off making me sad is a first world problem, but there's a 100% correlation between me doing something I believe is somehow "sinful" and my internet connection cutting off. Every time I pray when that happens, and think about what my sins have been (no matter how insignificant they seem like (for example today when I was talking with my mum about writing (she writes stuff like poetry and short stories, which I'm also interested in doing) and I used Nietszche's most famous quote as an example of something that I would never feel right in my heart to say/write even ironically (and ironically saying it, since I quoted it)) and asking for forgiveness), when I'm done with recognising my sins as best as I can, my internet connection goes back to normal and I feel like it's thanks to God. Like, I know that sounds incredibly narcissistic and everything, to pray to be able to use the internet instead of praying for world peace or something, but my world is really small; I have no social life outside the internet, I spend all day learning languages mostly online and everything, so for me not being able to go online is a big deal. It's definitely a first world problem, but it's the one thing that can really make me feel like shit and make me question everything, take my mind off whatever else.
The reason I feel like it absolutely has to be God (or an angel or whatever) that first cuts off my internet and then fixes it is that it always takes exactly as long as it takes me to thoroughly contemplate what I've done wrong recently and what I can do to not do it again. Sometimes minutes, sometimes hours, sometimes days, once or twice it's even taken a week or longer, but every single time it's the exact minute that I have the "ohhhhhh that's what I did wrong" moment that the internet works again. There's just no other explanation, at least not one that would satisfy every aspect of the thing; it could be the wire being shit, sure, but that's just the physical part of it.
Like, I know it sounds paranoid and like I'm schizophrenic or something, since in a way it implies that God "talks" to me, but I don't hear voices or anything and I don't even feel like I get any "clues" other than the internet cutting off and sometimes other electrical things or whatever, but it's what gets me to calm down in my mind and go over what I may have done that I shouldn't have done for whatever reason. I don't care if you call me absolutely batshit insane and tell me to kill myself (even if that's against the forum's rules), since I'm aware of how insane I sound. I just feel like I have to post this somewhere, and this forum is one of the most important sites I use, so yeah. I hope I'm not offending anyone, and that this doesn't sound too preachy or whatever, I'm not trying to tell anyone they should take this seriously or pray/meditate more or whatever, just that for me personally it's something I forget to do and then get reminded to do by my internet cutting off for as long as is necessary for me to "clear my conscience" of even the smallest things, if that's the right way to put it.
dEhiN wrote:Vlürch, there's nothing wrong in believing in that. I used to have a similar sort of belief and association with my watching porn.
Varislintu wrote:Because if you are talking about God, as in the Christian omni-God, then it's just weird that he's currently for example letting children starve to death or end up as house or sex slaves but cares to monitor your minor naughty thought processes and mete out little figurative slaps on your wrist over them.
Vlürch wrote:but the Bible says something about it being bad for people to call themselves Jews if they aren't really Jews, so... I mean, I don't really take the Bible literally, but still.
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