Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 18:28

obler9 wrote:
Ahahahah

I posted 4 possible constructions, not all the possible constructions. Just that was a fast example.
Of course in Italian all the constructions you show are absolutely possible too.

1) Ho dato la palla a Marco

2) A Marco ho dato la palla

3) La palla ho dato a Marco

4) A Marco la palla ho dato

5) La palla a Marco ho dato

6) Ho dato a Marco la palla



How do you say this in Spanish?

Vedendolo (present gerund + lo -him), me ne allontanai. "Seeing him, I went away from him"


Avendolo visto, me ne allontanai (perfect gerund +lo). "Having seen him, I went away from him"


Vedutolo (past participle + lo - him obj.), me ne allontanai . "Seen him, I went away from him"



@ loqui


And how do you exprime this double possibilty in Spanish or Catalan or Galitian or Portuguese ?

AVVICINATI QUELLI A Sé (brought those near himself = having brought those near himself) vs AVVICINATISELI (avvicinati - brought, se - near himself, li - those = having brought those near himself).

A phraseological example:

Avvicinati quelli a sé, li osservò = brought those near himself, he observed them = having brought those near to himself, he observed them =
Avvicinatiseli, li osservò

But of course it's the same to say: Li osservò, avvicinatiseli.

And of course it's the same to say: essendoseli avvicinati, li osservò (**being he near himself brought those, he oberved them = having brought those near himself, he observed them) - or: li osservò, essendoseli avvicinati.

Also the same it should be to say: avendoli avvicinati a sé, li osservò - or: li osservò, avendoli avvicinati a sé

Or course it's again the same to say: dopo esserseli avvicinati, li osservò - or: li osservò, dopo esserseli avvicinati. Dopo = after. So = **after to be those brought, he observed him = having brought those near himself, he observed them.

Or aslo: dopo averli avvicinati a sé, li osservò.

In Spanish, Catalan, or Portuguese, or Galitian?
Last edited by obler9 on 2008-10-10, 16:32, edited 5 times in total.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Boes » 2008-10-09, 18:34

ILuvEire wrote:
boes wrote:
Why is there such an apparant ' kick' for speakers of Romance languages to claim their language is the closest to Latin? What's it all about?


I think it makes them feel more "prestigious." The closer you are to Latin, a language of the educated and of the Roman empire, the better you are.

:? What a complete and utter waste of time...

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 19:42

modus.irrealis wrote:Even English can get four orders in this case.

My example is not the right one to show the Italian syntax is the most free among the Romance Languages.

My example is the right one to show how is not correct at all to think that a language with a noun declension (I am not talking about rumanian that has just one noun ending more than the other romance languages) is automatically freer than a language with a prepositional system:

in fact, as loqui showed, not only Italian but also Catalan and other Iberian Languages has a great syntactical freedom as regards the arrengement of the dative within the sentence. And as you showed, even english allows a certain freedom in this case.

If I have simply to show how the Italian syntax is the most free I would think of examples more complex than that one. For the moment I wait for a reply from Loqui to the new examples I added. He's certainly more expert than me on Spanish.




modus.irrealis wrote:Is it possible if there is no ambiguity, e.g. can you say in Italian "i suoi fratelli ama Maria"?

Yes it is absolutely possible. There is no ambiguity because "ama" (he/she loves) agrees with Maria only.
You can say
I suoi fratelli ama Maria
Ama i suoi fratelli Maria
Maria ama i suoi fratelli
I suoi fratelli Maria ama
Ama, Maria, i suoi fratelli
Maria i suoi fratelli ama
Last edited by obler9 on 2008-10-10, 17:11, edited 3 times in total.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 20:27

The more free arrangement of word and phrase permitted by Italian syntax - in comparison with the Spanish one

It was in imitation of the “Arcadia” that Montemayor wrote “Diana”, the first Spanish pastoral romance. That the earlier and better Spanish romances followed their Italian models closely, is very clear; that their style, which is sometimes stiled and unnatural, is due to this close imitation, is, however open to question, though this reason has been assigned by a competent authority (see the Introduction to the Spanish Academy’s edition of Valbuena’s “Siglo de Oro”, Madrid, 1821). For the Spanish pastoral romances, written originally for the amusement of courtiers, and artificial in their origin, remained so to a great extent in their general style and construction, and though such peculiar and distorted sentences not infrequentely occur, in which the learned Spanish critic thinks he can detect the more free arrangement of word and phrase permitted by Italian syntax, yet such passages are easily outweighed by those in which the style is graceful and flowing. It must be admitted, however, that though some of the Spanish pastoral romances attained a very high degree of excellence, they are generally wanting in that idyllic simplicity and truth to nature which we find in the “Arcadia” of Sannazaro


(Hugo Albert Rennert, “The Spanish Pastoral Romances” p.14-16)
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 21:15

KingHarvest wrote:Italian's word order is pretty strict


:shock:

“It is well-known that Italian has a relatively free word order” (Giuliana Giusti, "Italian", in Joachim Jacobs, “Syntax”, p.1347)


:mrgreen:
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 22:12

modus.irrealis wrote: In Latin, of course, all 6 permutations of SOV are possible.


Also in Italian all 6 permutations of SOV are generally possible.

(Examples from a book: as often it happens these kinds of examples reproduce idiotic situations...)

1 (SVO): Io mangerei un primo (“I would like to eat a first course”)

2 (OSV): La pastasciutta Franco la prende sempre qui (*“Pasta, Franco it orders always here”. “Franco always orders pasta here”)

3 (VSO): “Allora, mangio anche io la pastasciutta” (*“Well then, am eating also I pasta”, “Well then, I’m also eating pasta”)

4 (VOS): “Ha consigliato la lasagna Franco, no?” (*"Has recommended the lasagna, Franco, right?”, “It’s lasagna that Franco recommended here, right?”)

5) (OVS): “No, la lasagna l’ha consigliata Elisabetta” (*“No, the lasagna it has recommended Elizabeth”, “No, Elizabeth recommended the lasagna”)

6) (SOV): “Allora, io gli spaghetti prendo” (*“In that case, I the spaghetti am having”, “In that case, I’m having spaghetti”).
Last edited by obler9 on 2008-10-09, 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

Le parole sono importanti!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-09, 22:41

obler9 wrote:
modus.irrealis wrote: In Latin, of course, all 6 permutations of SOV are possible.


Also in Italian all 6 permutations of SOV are generally possible.

(Examples from a book: as often it happens these kinds of examples reproduce idiotic situations...)

1 (SVO): Io mangerei un primo (“I would like to eat a first course”)

2 (OSV): La pastasciutta Franco la prende sempre qui (*“Pasta, Franco it orders always here”. “Franco always orders pasta here”)

3 (VSO): “Allora, mangio anche io la pastasciutta” (*“Well then, am eating also I pasta”, “Well then, I’m also eating pasta”)

4 (VOS): “Ha consigliato la lasagna Franco, no?” (*"Has recommended the lasagna, Franco, right?”, “It’s lasagna that Franco recommended here, right?”)

5) (OVS): “No, la lasagna l’ha consigliata Elisabetta” (*“No, the lasagna it has recommended Elizabeth”, “No, Elizabeth recommended the lasagna”)

6) (SOV): “Allora, io gli spaghetti prendo” (*“In that case, I the spaghetti am having”, “In that case, I’m having spaghetti”).


I wonder
Does Spanish always allow all these constructions and so easily as Italian does?
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby loqu » 2008-10-10, 6:30

obler9 wrote:
obler9 wrote:
modus.irrealis wrote: In Latin, of course, all 6 permutations of SOV are possible.


Also in Italian all 6 permutations of SOV are generally possible.

(Examples from a book: as often it happens these kinds of examples reproduce idiotic situations...)

1 (SVO): Io mangerei un primo (“I would like to eat a first course”)

2 (OSV): La pastasciutta Franco la prende sempre qui (*“Pasta, Franco it orders always here”. “Franco always orders pasta here”)

3 (VSO): “Allora, mangio anche io la pastasciutta” (*“Well then, am eating also I pasta”, “Well then, I’m also eating pasta”)

4 (VOS): “Ha consigliato la lasagna Franco, no?” (*"Has recommended the lasagna, Franco, right?”, “It’s lasagna that Franco recommended here, right?”)

5) (OVS): “No, la lasagna l’ha consigliata Elisabetta” (*“No, the lasagna it has recommended Elizabeth”, “No, Elizabeth recommended the lasagna”)

6) (SOV): “Allora, io gli spaghetti prendo” (*“In that case, I the spaghetti am having”, “In that case, I’m having spaghetti”).


I wonder
Does Spanish always allow all these constructions and so easily as Italian does?


Yes it does, and I have realized that Italian also duplicates the direct object when it precedes the verb, just as Spanish, Catalan and Portuguese. I wonder why French is not like us.
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-10, 16:45

modus.irrealis wrote:But now I'm interested in knowing with a more basic construction, say something like "Maria loves Mark", what the possible orders are. I'd expect Spanish to win here because it can distinguish the direct object with "a" so I would assume you can say "a Marco ama Maria" but would the same OVS order be possible in other languages, say Italian "Marco ama Maria" or would this always have to mean "Mark loves Maria"?


Ah, I had forgotten that!

If Spanish adds "a", as you said, Italian adds a comma, and so a rythmic and tone change of the sentence:

Maria ama Marco > rco ama, Maria (Maria loves Mark; She loves Mark, she doesn't love someone else).

That has a different rythm and a different tone with respect to the imperative (Marco àma, Marìa! or Ama Marco, Maria!) and a different tone with respect to the vocative (Marco ama, Marìa... "You know, Mary, Mark loves").
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby modus.irrealis » 2008-10-10, 22:48

loqu wrote:Yes it does, and I have realized that Italian also duplicates the direct object when it precedes the verb, just as Spanish, Catalan and Portuguese. I wonder why French is not like us.

Spoken French offers a lot more possibilities than the more formal written language. You can hear things like

je l'ai lu le livre
le livre je l'ai lu
lui il est venu
Il est venu lui

and so on.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-11, 1:03

loqu wrote:I have realized that Italian also duplicates the direct object when it precedes the verb, just as Spanish, Catalan and Portuguese. I wonder why French is not like us.


In that example it happens in order to emphasize that it's Elisabetta the one who recommended Lasagne.

If there is no need of that kind of specification (that is: Elisabetta, and not someone else, is the one who recommended lasagne), Standard Italian uses the pure and simple shifting of the word order without any "duplication" of the object, like in the example I showed before "I suoi fratelli ama Maria" (I suoi fratelli-Obj., ama-Verb, Maria-Subj. *"Her brother loves Maria" = Maria loves her brothers).
Last edited by obler9 on 2008-10-11, 2:10, edited 4 times in total.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-11, 1:11

obler9 wrote:
modus.irrealis wrote:But now I'm interested in knowing with a more basic construction, say something like "Maria loves Mark", what the possible orders are. I'd expect Spanish to win here because it can distinguish the direct object with "a" so I would assume you can say "a Marco ama Maria" but would the same OVS order be possible in other languages, say Italian "Marco ama Maria" or would this always have to mean "Mark loves Maria"?


Ah, I had forgotten that!

If Spanish adds "a", as you said, Italian adds a comma, and so a rythmic and tone change of the sentence:

Maria ama Marco > rco ama, Maria (Maria loves Mark; She loves Mark, she doesn't love someone else).

That has a different rythm and a different tone with respect to the imperative (Marco àma, Marìa! or Ama Marco, Maria!) and a different tone with respect to the vocative (Marco ama, Marìa... "You know, Mary, Mark loves").


And yes....
In Italian there is also this OVS construction: "Marco lo ama Maria" (that means "It's Mary the one who loves Mark" or "Mary loves Mark -Mary and not someone else").
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby modus.irrealis » 2008-10-11, 18:13

obler9 wrote:
Ah, I had forgotten that!

If Spanish adds "a", as you said, Italian adds a comma, and so a rythmic and tone change of the sentence:

Maria ama Marco > rco ama, Maria (Maria loves Mark; She loves Mark, she doesn't love someone else).

That has a different rythm and a different tone with respect to the imperative (Marco àma, Marìa! or Ama Marco, Maria!) and a different tone with respect to the vocative (Marco ama, Marìa... "You know, Mary, Mark loves").


And yes....
In Italian there is also this OVS construction: "Marco lo ama Maria" (that means "It's Mary the one who loves Mark" or "Mary loves Mark -Mary and not someone else").

Thanks for that. Personally I would tend to exclude things like clitic doubling or (left/right) dislocation when considering word-order flexibility in basic sentences -- I see them as different constructions rather than simply rearrangements of the basic clause, sort of like cleft sentences such as the "It's Mary who loves Mark" example you gave. I think a comparison of who has the more flexible word order would be interesting but like you said, it'll take a lot more examples, and I'm pretty sure it would have to take looking at large chunks of text to see what orders are common rather than just theoretically possible. It'd be a lot of work, I imagine.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-11, 22:46

modus.irrealis wrote:Thanks for that. Personally I would tend to exclude things like clitic doubling or (left/right) dislocation when considering word-order flexibility in basic sentences -- I see them as different constructions rather than simply rearrangements of the basic clause, sort of like cleft sentences such as the "It's Mary who loves Mark" example you gave.


The dislocation is not a simple rearrangement of the words within a given clause because it implies the duplication of the object. By the way the dislocation is a rearrangement of the more common word order into an other one, for example from SVO to OVS:
1)SVO: Maria ama Marco > OVS: Marco lo ama Maria.
A rearrangement without duplication is:
2)SVO: Maria ama Marco > OVS Marco ama, Maria > VOS: ama Marco, Maria; SVO: Maria ama i suoi fratelli > OVS: i suoi fratelli ama Maria; etc..
But the result is the same: from SVO to OVS.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-11, 23:12

modus.irrealis wrote:I think a comparison of who has the more flexible word order would be interesting but like you said, it'll take a lot more examples, and I'm pretty sure it would have to take looking at large chunks of text to see what orders are common rather than just theoretically possible. It'd be a lot of work, I imagine.


I think we have to consider not only which constructions are common, as you said, but also what constructions are grammatically accepted in a given Romance language, even if they are not so common or even if they are unusual. Of course we have to specify when they are grammatically correct but not common or viceversa. I.g. "Marco ama, Maria" (meaning Mary loves Mark) is grammatically correct but it's not very common, while "Le lasagne le prende Elisabetta" is common but it's not accepted by the most traditional grammars, although the open minded present grammars would accept it. "I suoi fratelli ama Maria" (maeaning Maria loves her borthers) is correct and common enough; and also "Ama i suoi fratelli Maria" is and always grammatically correct and rather common, it emphasizes the fact Maria loves her brothers so much, even more than a normal sister does.
But behind every inversion there is always a need of emphasis, an affective motivation or a stylistic and melodic reason.

Of course in Standard Italian also the adjective is mobile. You can even say "Ama Maria i fratelli suoi".
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby obler9 » 2008-10-12, 16:47

modus.irrealis wrote:
L: dico me videre te (present infinitive)
I: dico di vederti / dico di vedere te (present infinitive)


Are you really saying that dire in Italian can take an infinitive construction with di to mean "say that"? And it's not just like French dire with de plus infinitive, meaning "tell (someone) to"


KingHarvest wrote:
When you show something, call it by the right name. You would like to show the Latin INFINITIVE CLAUSES and their relation with the Italian language, namely the consecutio temporum of the infinitive clauses (while I showed the much more complex and refined consecutio temporum of the subjunctive mood in the subordinate clauses as regards Latin and Italian).


Oh, le sigh. I was talking about indirect discourse/statement, which is, in fact, what you will find this information listed under in English grammars of Latin since that is what we call it in English. We tend to prefer not to use the native Latin names for particular clauses.
But the infinitive is even more used. So, the right example is:


To claim that the infinitive construction is more commonly used is omitting one important fact (and I should’ve used “I say that he sees you,” etc. in order to prevent you from misrepresenting facts): such an infinitive clause can only be used when the subject of the main and the subordinate clause are the same. Of course, “dico di vederti” is also not actually a continuation of Latinate grammar but coincidence.


Of course "dico di vederti" and generally the Italian infinitive clauses are clearly a continuation of Latinate grammar in the language that more directly than the other Romance languages derives from Latin. It is a nonsense to state the opposite.

By the way I had also forgotten to underline that besides the infinitive subordinate clause with “di + infinitive” that is used when the subject of the subordinate clause is the same of the one of the main clause, in Italian, epistemic verbs and verbs of saying (verbs that introduce the Latin infinitive clause) can introduce subordinate infinitive clauses also when the subject of the subordinate clause differs from the subject of the main clause. In this case there is not any preposition (i.g. “di”) introducing the infinitive tense. The subject of the infinitive clause appears in the main clause if the infinitive clause is a subordinate clause depending on an other subordinate one (.i.g. a relative clause), otherwise it appears in the infinitive clause itself.


_Ritengo dover tuo fratello tornare a casa, “I believe to-have your brother to come back home”

_Le persone che suppongo non essere state messe al corrente delle vostre decisioni sono molte; “The persons that I suppose not to have been acquaited with your decisions are many”

_La donna che Mario affermava non volerlo sposare era mia sorella, “The woman that Mario stated not to want to marry him was my sister”

_Quante di queste persone possiamo ritenere aver sempre fatto il loro dovere?, “How many of these persons can we believe to have always done their duties?”

_Questa commissione ritiene aver loro sempre ottemperato agli obblighi previsti dalla legge, “This commission believes to-have they/them always fulfilled the legal duties”

_La sola persona che Gianni afferma aver sempre fatto il suo dovere è Mario, “The only person that Gianni asserts to have always done his duty is Mario”.

_Ritengo aver lui dichiarato alla stampa estera che la situazione è in rapido peggioramento, “I believe to-have he declared to the foreign press that the situation is rapidly getting worse

_La stampa estera, alla quale ritengo aver lui dichiarato che la situazione è in rapido peggioramento dà segni di inquietudine, “The foreign press to whom I believe to-have he stated the the situation is rapidely getting worse manifests preoccupation”.

The same with impersonal verbs:

_ Sembra piovere: It seems it rains.

Chiusa la parentesi e chiarita una questione altrimenti inconclusa, senza sperderci in ulteriori rivoli, possiamo tornare sull'ultimo argomento considerato, vale dire la varietà sintattica nelle diverse lingue romanze, con riferimento particolare alla comparazione fra Italiano e Spagnolo.
linguaholic wrote:I usually eat them with ketchup (I hate mayo, plus it's not vegan), also like satésauce (salty peanut stuff). Hummus sounds great, but I don't see anybody making that available here anytime soon.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Lietmotiv » 2008-11-10, 8:26

.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby DANAY » 2008-11-11, 0:43

I M P R E SS IO N A N T !!!!!!! I CAN UNDERSTAND 70 % OF RMANIAN HERE.....GEK, HE ?
THERE ARE MANY GREEK (?) WORDS , OR AT LEAST COMMON WORDS, THAT HELP ME UNDERSTAND...
SO, THATS HOW ROMANESTE LOOKS LIKE....HERE IN GREECE I VE MET ONLY VLAXI, WHO SPEAK AROMUN, THATS HOW I HEAR THE NAME OF THE LANGUAGE....I VE BEEN MANY TIMES IN METSOVO IN NW GREECE, WHERE EVERY BODY SPEAK AROMUN....
ONE TIME I ASKED AN OLD MAN HOW THEY SAY "CHEARS" IN AROMUN AND HE SAID TO ME: SA SHKOALA PULA......SO I WENT WHITH MY DUTCH GRUP TO KALAMBAKA, IN THESSALIA,WHERE LIVE MANY VALAXI....AND I SAID TO DIMITRI AT THE RECEPTION.....SA SHKOALA PULA,..... AND HE ANSWERED...
SHKOLATA YESHTE.....
GOD BE WITH HIM.... HE PASSED AWAY IN A CAR ACCIDENT..2 YEARS AGO........LARIVERDERE, O DIMITRI, MICU MEU..... :cry:

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby ''' » 2008-11-11, 6:45

Are there two people on your account? You swap between lucid discussion (usualy in lower case) and inane, poorly punctuated, spellt, and written yelling (in all caps).
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Real Name: Mariana Florea Scars
Gender: female
Location: Montreal
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby MFS » 2009-06-21, 5:51

Ok I know this is a late reply but I just read the whole thing tonight and I can't believe how much hate some people harbour inside of them. I will not start with what language is closest to Latin because honestly I don't know so I won’t pretend I do and I won't do three years of research to answer to that never ending replay by that Italian person. I am Romanian and my husband is Italian, we live in Montreal (Canada) and neither one of us knows which is closest to Latin. All I know is that when I learned Latin in school it sounded a lot like my own language which is obviously Romanian. Also in different films that had some Latin speaking parts in it, it sounded a lot like Italian and at times like Romanian and then again like Italian, then Romanian... The bottom line is that, my husband and I we both understood and recognize how similar they are. We also speak French and we can see the resemblance in all three languages. The three Latin languages that are present in my life are all very similar and at the same time unique, since they all have different accents and yet the structure of phrases and the grammar is very similar. Because I speak Romanian as a first language it was very easy to learn French and to understand Italian. I know many Romanians who speak fluent and without an accent in Italian. I wonder in how many "language groups" is it possible for an adult to learn a different language although in the same group and not have an accent as in the case of Romanians speaking Italian. No matter how much some Italians hate to see how close and similar they are with Romanians, this is the reality. Learn to live with it, we did. In many aspects it's true that Romania is not as developed as Italy is but then again Italy wasn't under communism for 50 years (I know, excuses, but that's the reality). I really don't know if Romanian is the closest to Latin but it sure sounds like it to me, since I speak it, I don't speak Latin but whenever I hear it I recognize it and I understand most of it. I am also exposed to Italian on a daily basis and you know what, Italian also sounds like Latin. Soooo big deal. No matter what nothing will change because of it either way, so guys move on with your lives and let the historians deal with that debate. But you know what, I feel for the Romanian guy who posted here, most people don't know that Romanian is a Latin language. I know it has Slavic influences, but I am sure that the Latin base of the language is greater than the Slavic influence. I know Italians look "down" to Romanians but four years ago when I went back home for a visit my husband was able to communicate with most people in either English, French or Italian but when we went to Italy (Florence and Venice) the Italian people, including the ones dealing with the public (on a touristic site) were not able to speak anything other than Italian. I guess Romania is catching up a bit (in an intellectual type of way if not in financial development). No matter what I love Italy as a country and I love the Italian language which I plan to improve pretty soon.


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