Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

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Levike
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-04, 20:39

Even if we take the most-Latin-like words Romanian still seems the distant one.

pater = pater = tatăl
voluntas = volonta = voia
debita = debiti = greșeli
malo = male = rău

Can you find more than 2 words in the prayer which are more similar to Romanian than to Italian?

What is more pure about Romanian vocabulary?
That later stages of Latin didn't influence it,
'cause that just led the language to evolve even more differently.

If you don't like texts then let's just compare conjugation: ( Latin-Spanish-Romanian )
video = veo = văd
vides = ves = vezi
videt = ve = vede
videmus = vemos = vedem
videtis = véis = vedeți
vident = ven = văd
Last edited by Levike on 2013-10-04, 20:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-04, 20:46

Romanian has much more original latin words than other Romance languages even the semantics!You are wrong once,after Dacia was abandoned in 271 Dobruja has been still kept under roman influence anyway until 602 but that doesn't matter the Daco'romans kept the latin heritage and te Byzantine empire until 600 'a it helped the Dacians!Classical Latin--->Basilica Ro.biserica late latin--->egglesia it.chiesa fr.eglise sp.iglesia pt.igreja gal.igrexa sard.creia/gresia/cresia Classical Latin--->atingere Ro.atinge Vulgar Latin ---->tocare(Celtic) it.tocare sp.tocar fr.toucher Classical Latin--->scire ro.sti vulgar latin---->sapere fr.savoir sp,pt.saber it.sapere Classical Latin--->albus ro.alb Vulgar Latin ---> Blancus(germanic) fr.blanc it.bianco sp.blanco And the list goes on....Romanian has kept phonology similar to Italian while the grammar remains predominantly latin vein the closest to Classical Latin even in terms of vocabulary where as we'll has been kept pure while the other Romance languages made part of the Catholic Church's innovations from medieval and late latin Italian might be the closest I term of vocabulary but that language is synthetic it was formed by Tuscan with borrowed words and grammar from Venetian ,Neapolitan and so on and these languages formed way more later than Romanian and it full of non-original latin borrowed words from the Catholic Church !
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-04, 20:59

Levente wrote:Even if we take the most-Latin-like words Romanian still seems the distant one.

pater = pater = tatăl
voluntas = volonta = voia
debita = debiti = greșeli
malo = male = rău

Can you find more than 2 words in the prayer which are more similar to Romanian than to Italian?

What is more pure about Romanian vocabulary?
That later stages of Latin didn't influence it,
'cause that just led the language to evolve even more differently.

Tata was borrowed from Greek but it is used widely I Neapolitan and it been the base word for father in Dalmatian rau means guilty/accused in latin from Reus come on dude these words are used in church !and I've heard a more use of pacate than greseli here in dobrogea!sure it envolved from latin but unlike other Romance languages while they kept borrowing from the late latin because of the i

solation romanian from the other ones...you see ierta<libertare was inherited from latin maybe the other ones just borrowed it like they did with the rest of the words I'd bet that if Catholic Church would have persisted after the fall of Rome Romanian would have been even closer to latin than other romance!chill out dude!romanian is conservative like Aromanian Romansh and Sardinian!these are isolate languages!
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-04, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-04, 21:03

Io vedu
Tu vedzi
Elu/ela veadi
Noi videmu
Voi videtsi
Eali/eli vedu
Aromanian!
Calm down buddy I told you romanian has kept a lot of conservation a thank god that the geographical position did not persisted I really like my native language Aromanian which has been kept away from Slavic influences but it has been kept under Greek ones and i'ti is beautiful like Romanian these are unique Romance languages of course there is how I mentioned earlier Sardinian and Romansh and I hope these languages will live !vie fratii nostri latini!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-04, 21:44

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Io vedu
Tu vedzi
Elu/ela veadi
Noi videmu
Voi videtsi
Eali/eli vedu
Aromanian!
Calm down buddy I told you romanian has kept a lot of conservation a thank god that the geographical position did not persisted I really like my native language Aromanian which has been kept away from Slavic influences but it has been kept under Greek ones and i'ti is beautiful like Romanian these are unique Romance languages of course there is how I mentioned earlier Sardinian and Romansh and I hope these languages will live !vie fratii nostri latini!

But even so the Spanish one looks more similar. Don't you think?

And after the break-up it really didn't enjoy more direct Latin influence.
Because Greek became the predominant language in the remaining Eastern Roman Empire.
Thanks to Greek we have words like "folos" or "a lipsi".

And bravo, you also proved that Aromanian is closer to Latin than Romanian in conjugation.
This thread should be renamed "Aromanian, the closest Neo-Latin ( Romance language) to Latin"

By the way, Aromanian is beautiful indeed. :D
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 6:05

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Io vedu
Tu vedzi
Elu/ela veadi
Noi videmu
Voi videtsi
Eali/eli vedu
Aromanian!
Calm down buddy I told you romanian has kept a lot of conservation a thank god that the geographical position did not persisted I really like my native language Aromanian which has been kept away from Slavic influences but it has been kept under Greek ones and i'ti is beautiful like Romanian these are unique Romance languages of course there is how I mentioned earlier Sardinian and Romansh and I hope these languages will live !vie fratii nostri latini!

But even so the Spanish one looks more similar. Don't you think?

And after the break-up it really didn't enjoy more direct Latin influence.
Because Greek became the predominant language in the remaining Eastern Roman Empire.
Thanks to Greek we have words like "folos" or "a lipsi".

And bravo, you also proved that Aromanian is closer to Latin than Romanian in conjugation.
This thread should be renamed "Aromanian, the closest Neo-Latin ( Romance language) to Latin"

By the way, Aromanian is beautiful indeed. :D

Yes,indeed Aromanian became isolate and it is like Proto-Romanian in the 1000's ,and i hope this language wont die but im kinda sad about others who envolved to much (Istro-Romanian,Megleno-Romanian) but along i must correct you,after Dacia got left from Roman Armies, the latinity continued untill the arrival of slavs,in the 600's as i mentioned!Yet we have no east germanic word in our vocabulary or any other words since the armies were drown from the whole italia peninsula including sardinia,sicilia and rhaetia yes,it cognates with many italian dialects,or rhaeto-romansch but still Romanian is cousin with the other Isolate languages:Aromanian,Rhaeto-Romansch,Sardinian
Future in all those languages:Voi canta,va sa cantu,jo vegna chanta,ab a cantare respectively Ro,Arom,Rhaet,Sard
Afirmations:Da,da,gea,eja respectively as below
And greek influence is aslo important Italian has gotten a higher one same happens with Spanish or to a limited degree Portuguese,i've got no problem with greek influence,it is a beautiful language,but it is not our mother,Latin it is!How i said,Greek is the substrata of Italian,Spanish,Sicilian,ETC!Aslo along with folos we got util and with lipsa,absenta!
Aromanian is like unenvolved Romanian,has gotten U endings like Sardinian,and Sicilian in all the words that dissapeared in Romanian!
But still Romanian ,Sardinian and Rhaet are still the closest languages to Latin!
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-05, 6:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 6:07

Do not forget that Romanian and Aromanian has gotten a pure latin vocabulary unlike others languages that got influenced by Catholic Church!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Bernard » 2013-10-05, 10:03

Equidem pro certo scio, amici, linguam Latinam, almam omnium vestrum matrem, vestra verborum disceptatione stupore quodam et silentio defigi. Nonne matri pietatis plenae liberi sine ullo discrimine grati sunt atque accepti?
:roll:

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-05, 10:53

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Do not forget that Romanian and Aromanian has gotten a pure Latin vocabulary unlike other languages that got influenced by Catholic Church!

25-30% of the Romanian vocabulary is from other Romance languages.
So I wouldn't call it pure.

Words like "util" or "absența" are all new words from the other ones.
So not really pure.

Only 30% is directly inherited from the Local Vulgar Latin.

And even words that are pure changed a lot, some in the way they look others in their meaning.
Latin Deus became the Portuguese Deus and the Spanish Dios,while in Romanian it's Zeu.
Latin salutare became a săruta. The a saluta was only later borrowed.

Church Latin was a good thing since it kept the Latin part Latin-like.

So Romanian is not purer compared to the other ones.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 11:42

Hahahahahah...who told you that only 30% is inherited from latin?then romanian was never a Romance language if you consider that!no.romanian was always a predominantly Romance language and even without the loans from French or Italian it is still has 75% vocabulary of latin origin romanian just misses around 96 pan-romanic words that are present in other languages but in the same time romanian has way more words that are missing in the other languages how i mentioned some time ago...just calm down already xD it is history it is a fact!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 11:45

Please do not act like that jealous italian...
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-05, 11:53

I said that 30% is directly inherited.
But adding the later ones it's really 75%. ( adding every loan word )

Even if the percentage would be below 20% it would still be a real Latin language.
The English vocabulary has more Romance words than Germanic but it's still considered Germanic.
In language families the origin is the one that counts.

And the grammar would still be Latin.

Romanian vocab is 75% Latin but the Spanish one's above 90%.
And even in grammar as you saw the Spanish conjugation is closer.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 13:53

Levente wrote:I said that 30% is directly inherited.
But adding the later ones it's really 75%. ( adding every loan word )

Even if the percentage would be below 20% it would still be a real Latin language.
The English vocabulary has more Romance words than Germanic but it's still considered Germanic.
In language families the origin is the one that counts.

And the grammar would still be Latin.

Romanian vocab is 75% Latin but the Spanish one's above 90%.
And even in grammar as you saw the Spanish conjugation is closer.

Dude,i dont think you get it, 75-80(highest point but i dont think it would be that much)% of the vocab is direct latin heritage,while 10-12% would be the french borrowed words or italian,only neologism are much called french but still 15-20% of vocabulary was of slavic origin before XIX-century now it is below 10% and the rest is greek,turkish,hungarian and substrata which many of the substrate words are based on latin etymons.English language borrowed from latin,and got force influenced by french and normand languages,yet the basic words of english language are 80% of germanic origin.And no,Aromanian is even closer than spanish to the latin conjugation. <3 Even Aromanian has words of latin origin dissapeared later in romanian:bashu (sărut), cusurinu (văr), dimãndari (poruncă), uinu (de oaie), agiunu (flămând), fumealje (familie, copii), largu (departe), vatãmu (ucid), tsentu (sută), puli di noapte (liliac) and words which arent used dialectal as romanian:Arina (nisip) ,catina (lant) muru (zid) but YET Aromanian and Romanian are the closest languages to Classical Latin in terms of Grammar! And as vocabulary it would stay at the third place yet these languages has the most classical latin vocabulary!
75% latin
10% through french
2% Italian!
I think you're confused of the words because it has changed because of the Traco-Getic territory,and you think all the words are of slavic origin.Absolutely NO!Believe me! I dont understand a word from Bulgarian or Serbian!It is tottaly mandarin or cantonese for me!
Aslo i've checked Romanian words of slavic origin list.And there are 404 just like Arabic influence dropped 400 words in Portuguese!Have you checked the Reichenau Glossary or Vulgar Latin Vocabulary on wikipedia? Just check them and you will see!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Bernard » 2013-10-05, 14:39

Equidem puto imperatorem Caesarem Augustum MARCVM VLPIVM TRAIANVM, si etiamnunc in vita esset, controversiam vestram molestam severo edicto sedaturum fuisse.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-05, 14:50

I didn't say that a great part is of Slavic origin, only like 10-15% which is low.
It's no wonder you don't understand Bulgarian.

But for example Romanian has lost the future conjugation, while Spanish still has it.
So even in grammar it's not that close.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 14:58

Levente wrote:I didn't say that a great part is of Slavic origin, only like 10-15% which is low.
It's no wonder you don't understand Bulgarian.

But for example Romanian has lost the future conjugation, while Spanish still has it.
So even in grammar it's not that close.

I dont think you have studiat latin but the spanish future is a bit different from the latin one and romanian togheter with Aromanian rhaeto'romansch and sardinian has building a future with a voi (to want) veigna (to come) and respectively abere (to have) and still all are conservative!:)But yeah romanian has got influenced by balkan sprachbund where even bulgarian has borrowed alot of latin words!But do NOT forget your native language vocabulary:30% uncertain origin 24% of uralic origin 20% of slavic origin 10% greek and latin origin 15% of turkic origin (altaic) and rest the others !
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-05, 15:03

Spanish and also Portuguese use "voi" along with the other kind of constructions.

Eu vou cantar = I will sing ( Portuguese )
Yo voy a cantar = I will sing ( Spanish )
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 15:07

Levente wrote:Spanish and also Portuguese use "voi" along with the other kind of constructions.

Eu vou cantar = I will sing ( Portuguese )
Yo voy a cantar = I will sing ( Spanish )

Dude Eu voi cânta-i will sing in romanian where cânta(cântare) is the infinitive!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-05, 15:14

Ai putea te rog să scrii in română, că nu sunt sigur ce ai zis chiar acum?

Dacă ai vrut să zici că în română, în ”eu voi cânta”, cânta e în infinitiv atunci ce-i?
Tot așa e și în spaniolă.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-05, 15:50

Levente wrote:Ai putea te rog să scrii in română, că nu sunt sigur ce ai zis chiar acum?

Dacă ai vrut să zici că în română, în ”eu voi cânta”, cânta e în infinitiv atunci ce-i?
Tot așa e și în spaniolă.

Amice,romana are patru conjugari ca in latina culta(clasica) a(are) cânta,despica,astampara,scula
,spera ea(ere) vedea,părea,cădea e(êre) merge,culege,atinge i(ire) muri,dormi,auzi toate verbele functioneaza cu infinitivul scurt cat si lung!in aromana doar infinitivul lung exista!
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