Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Zarcu Mihai
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-02, 5:46

Levente wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:I never understood how or why "Rumania[n]" caught on when their names in the language itself are România and română.

My explanation is that in many languages ( Slavic ones ) the way they call us contains u.

Russian: Румыния
Polish: Rumunia
Bulgarian: Румъния
Serbo-Croatian: Румунија

In Hungarian it is even crazier.
The way we call many countries does not resemble at all how they call themselves.

Isnt it called "Romania" in Hungarian?
I dont know NON-indo-European languages,but you can tell me ow it is really written :)
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-02, 10:46

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Isnt it called "Romania" in Hungarian?:)
Yes, in Hungarian Romania is Románia and Romanian is román.

But 1 or 2 centuries ago we used to call you oláh.
Some people still do but nowadays it's more of an offensive term.

Romania = Románia
Italy = Olaszország
Russia = Oroszország
Germany = Németország

Before the Romanian unification Țara românească/Valahia was called Oláhország.
And even after the unification we called Romania like that for a while.
And at the end it became Románia which is now used.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-02, 11:19

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Isnt it called "Romania" in Hungarian?:)
Yes, in Hungarian Romania is Románia and Romanian is román.

But 1 or 2 centuries ago we used to call you oláh.
Some people still do but nowadays it's more of an offensive term.

Romania = Románia
Italy = Olaszország
Russia = Oroszország
Germany = Németország

Before the Romanian unification Țara românească/Valahia was called Oláhország.
And even after the unification we called Romania like that for a while.
And at the end it became Románia which is now used.

Russian=Oros???Where does Oros come from its cognate to romanian "rus"?By the way Olasz and Olah has the same origin even Poland does call Italy:Wlochy Romania:Wolochy
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-02, 11:23

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Russian=Oros???Where does Orosz come from, its cognate to Romanian "rus"

Well Russia in Russian is Россия ( Rossiya )
We just probably added an O to the beginning.

We used to call the Slovaks tótok and I have no idea where this name came from.
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-02, 12:39

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Russian=Oros???Where does Orosz come from, its cognate to Romanian "rus"

Well Russia in Russian is Россия ( Rossiya )
We just probably added an O to the beginning.

We used to call the Slovaks tótok and I have no idea where this name came from.

Check this out:https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fișier:Imper-Barbar.jpg
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-02, 12:56

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Check this out:https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fișier:Imper-Barbar.jpg
Interesting.
But I don't understand why on Muntenia it says Ungro-Valahia?
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-02, 13:54

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Check this out:https://ro.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fișier:Imper-Barbar.jpg
Interesting.
But I don't understand why on Muntenia it says Ungro-Valahia?

How it was called before battle from Posada (1330) when valahia became independent :)
But wait does Ungro- and Ungaro- had the same origin??
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-02, 14:23

Zarcu Mihai wrote:But wait does Ungro- and Ungaro- had the same origin??

I think it's a misspelling.
Or maybe ungro was once accepted.
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-02, 14:52

It is pretty weird since there was not that much informations about Romania I don't even know why do these people from that forum about "Romanian more Slavic than romance" said that many Romanians are of Slavic or cuman origin these toponsyms represent the fact that these people that invaded our teritories were powerful and so on they say that we are brainwashed but they wanna brainwash us more than possible.it really lacks sense if our language survived then we may have survived aswell from these invadators do you remember Posada when do Romanians hidden in the mountains for a surprise attack?maybe we have hidden from the invadators too why do we declared that we were descending from Romans since old times???why did every nation called us vlachs in the mediaeval era???...
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-03, 1:38

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:But wait does Ungro- and Ungaro- had the same origin??

I think it's a misspelling.
Or maybe ungro was once accepted.

Am i right,Levente?
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-03, 9:46

Mihai, no one is trying to say that Romanian is a Slavic language.
Everyone knows that it's a normal Romance language with some Slavic elements.

That thread was actually called "Is Romanian more a Romance or a Slavic language"
and it was made by someone who was just curious and didn't have any pre-knowledge.
And he also stated that he knows that it's a Latin language.

By the way, the name vlach has nothing bad in it.
It was not made to hide our identity or something.

For example we Hungarians call ourselves Magyarok but everyone has a different name for us.
Even in Romanian out country's name is Ungaria and not Maghiaria or something like that.
But that doesn't mean that everyone is trying to hide out Finno-Ugric identity.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-03, 12:49

Levente wrote:Mihai, no one is trying to say that Romanian is a Slavic language.
Everyone knows that it's a normal Romance language with some Slavic elements.

That thread was actually called "Is Romanian more a Romance or a Slavic language"
and it was made by someone who was just curious and didn't have any pre-knowledge.
And he also stated that he knows that it's a Latin language.

By the way, the name vlach has nothing bad in it.
It was not made to hide our identity or something.

For example we Hungarians call ourselves Magyarok but everyone has a different name for us.
Even in Romanian out country's name is Ungaria and not Maghiaria or something like that.
But that doesn't mean that everyone is trying to hide out Finno-Ugric identity.

I didn't say that Vlach is a bad name but In the mediaeval era the meaning was latin origin man.
I just wanted to prove that we always been declaring that we are roman descendends.
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-11-05, 17:07

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Russian=Oros???Where does Orosz come from, its cognate to Romanian "rus"

Well Russia in Russian is Россия ( Rossiya )
We just probably added an O to the beginning.


Nope. Russia is Rassyia in Russian. That o is pronounced like an a because of vowel reduction.

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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Levike » 2013-11-05, 17:33

IpseDixit wrote:Nope. Russia is Rassyia in Russian. That o is pronounced like an a because of vowel reduction.

I know that but one middle vowel isn't that important.

I'm also sure that most probably we didn't take it from how Russians call themselves.

By the way, I somehow doubt that Russian had vowel reductions like 900 years ago.
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-25, 14:53

Levente wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Nope. Russia is Rassyia in Russian. That o is pronounced like an a because of vowel reduction.

I know that but one middle vowel isn't that important.

I'm also sure that most probably we didn't take it from how Russians call themselves.

By the way, I somehow doubt that Russian had vowel reductions like 900 years ago.


How come most of the Russians i heard they are calling their Country "Ruzia" or something like that,anyway lets not change the Subject,shall we? :)
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-11-25, 17:29

Levente wrote:I know that but one middle vowel isn't that important.

I'm also sure that most probably we didn't take it from how Russians call themselves.

By the way, I somehow doubt that Russian had vowel reductions like 900 years ago.
That long ago, it would've been more like Old East Slavic, and probably not, since Ukrainian doesn't. (Belarusian does but it's not as drastic.)

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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-26, 2:28

I dont know,Levente...i may be wrong or i dont hear them right...so it is just my opinion.Tell me what do you think about that. :)
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-11-26, 2:38

mōdgethanc wrote:
Levente wrote:I know that but one middle vowel isn't that important.

I'm also sure that most probably we didn't take it from how Russians call themselves.

By the way, I somehow doubt that Russian had vowel reductions like 900 years ago.
That long ago, it would've been more like Old East Slavic, and probably not, since Ukrainian doesn't. (Belarusian does but it's not as drastic.)

Yes he is right,and Old East Slavic splitted in other several East slavic languages later in the 15'th Century.
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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby daniel201088 » 2013-12-06, 2:43

most romance languages have a little bit of foreign influence (but just a litle little bit that don't affect their romance base.

Romanian may has a little little little bit of slavic but it consist in actually few words, just as in spanish, which has been influenced a little bit with arabic words (alberca, azúcar, albañil, almibar, Almudena...)

Romanian and Spanish, as Italian, French, Galician.... are basically romance languages, in grammar, structures, most words, etc.. :D

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Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-12-10, 15:33

daniel201088 wrote:most romance languages have a little bit of foreign influence (but just a litle little bit that don't affect their romance base.

Romanian may has a little little little bit of slavic but it consist in actually few words, just as in spanish, which has been influenced a little bit with arabic words (alberca, azúcar, albañil, almibar, Almudena...)

Romanian and Spanish, as Italian, French, Galician.... are basically romance languages, in grammar, structures, most words, etc.. :D

They just need to agree that not only Romanian has Toponyms of foreign origin or Suffixes/Preffixes in their latin words.But aslo France has got alot of Germanic Toponyms or Portugal and Spain which they got alot of Arabic Toponyms same with their Vocabulary,the number of Slavic words in Romanian is as same as Arabic Vocabulary in Portuguese or even greater in Spanish or Germanic Vocab in French (French aslo has borrowed from sorrounding Germanic Countries,just like Romanian did with their Slavic Neighbours)!
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