Romanian Discussion Group

[Boyet]

Bine ai venit stabthecake! Te mulţumesc pentru stima faţă de noi, carora ne place limba ta şi care o învăţăm cu pasiunea mare. Pentru problemă a tastaturii, nu ştiu preciz ce se poate face, dar pe acest sait http://www.secarica.ro/html/ro_kbd_win9xme.html sau http://www.datacal.com/dce/romanian-overlays.htm am găsit un posibil răspuns. Numai trebuie selectat sistema de operare,care te interesează. Eu am noroc pentru că aveam deja instalat tastatura română în sistemă de operare şi sper că şi tu ai noroc. Baftă!

[stabthecake]

multumesc mult mult de tot Boyet, primul site (http://www.secarica.ro/html/ro_kbd_win9xme.html) e perfect! just what i was looking for! in curand o sa-mi cumpar un computer nou si abia astept sa instalez...

small corrections to your post (i hope you don't mind) : you wrote "preciz" and it should be "precis", "sistem" is a masculine noun so it would be "sistemul de operare" instead of "sistema de operare". lastly, in the final sentence you wrote "sper ca ai si tu noroc" - i assume that you meant to wish me luck (thanks!! ) but "sper ca ai si tu noroc" means "i hope that you're lucky, too" (as in a lucky person.. in romanian you would want to wish luck upon someone as opposed to wishing for them to be lucky) so you should write either "sper sa ai si tu noroc" or "sper ca vei avea si tu noroc".

thank you very much


p.s. i haven't seen too many people addressing each other formally in their posts and i was wondering why that was. in romania (i don't know how many of you have been to romania or how well you all know the language, so i apologize if this comes as an insult to anyone's intelligence of the romanian people) people address each other formally very frequently. i was thinking that maybe you've all gotten to be comfortable with one another.. maybe i'm making too big of a deal about this. it's just that i know that in America, there is no formal tense, so i thought that maybe some of you are simply not used to it or might not realize the importance of addressing people formally... either way, i think it's good to practice using it. i study spanish and i often find myself using "tu" with people who (i later realize) i should have used "usted".. mistakes like this can be hurtful or aggravating to some people so just tread carefully

i hope i haven't been too harsh on anyone or mean - please ask me if you have any questions about the language or the culture and i'll do my best to answer !

-Ioana

[Boyet]

small corrections to your post (i hope you don't mind)

Thank you so much for your corrections! I really appreciated. I'm learning Romanian and every contribution to improve my language skills is surely welcome! To reply to your p.s. , I think the use of the informal register is connected to the "atmosphere" of this site. I mean, everyone can express their opinions among equals and so creating a friendly place to discuss without feeling the need to keep a distance. In my opinion we can be polite and kind anyway.

I've never been to Romania but I agree with you about the fact that Romanians use a higher degree of politeness in their conversations because I know some Romanians.

I have a question too about the language. Some people pronounce the verb "eram...era...erau" with a "y" before the "e",like "yeram...yera...yeraoo" and some people without the "y" sound. Could you tell me more about it? Is it just a regional accent?

Mulţumesc pentru orice ajutor!

[parousia]

- I know how to speak Romanian
here you could use either the noun language "Ştiu să vorbesc limba română", or the adverbial form "Ştiu să vorbesc româneşte".

Mersi duko Şi what about [<-- cum se spune pe româneşte apropo?] "Ştiu vorbi româneşte"? sau "Ştiu vorbi limba română"?

Is "şti" one of those verbs (like "putea") where you don't need the subjunctive (să + conjugated verb)such that you can say conjugated-form-of-"şti" + infinitive to say you know how to do something? Like: Ştiu găti = I know how to cook?

Întrebărea de azi:

In English we have the pronoun "one" to talk about an unspecified individual. For example: "One doesn't always know what one wants." Using the pronoun "one" often elevates the diction quite a bit (and makes you sound stuffy and overly formal), so most of the time you'll hear "you" instead: "You don't always know what you want."

In French, you can use the pronoun "on" in a similar way, as well as vous/tu. How does this work in Romanian? I don't think I've come across a pronoun equivalent of "one" unless I'm forgetting something ...

parousia
Întrebărea trece marea.

BINE AŢI VENIT stabthecake! Sunt foarte fericită că eşti aici. Te rog, corectează-mă daca vezi greşeale.

[duko]

E apropo

I think the subjunctive and infinitive are interchangeable, it seems to be a common feature in the Balkans. I remember reading once that the infinitive is the original form, whereas the subjunctive was imported from Greek.

Drawing a parallel with Serbian/Croatian, if you want to say "I cannot talk now"

infinitive:
Nu pot vorbi acum - Ne mogu govoriti sada

subjunctive:
Nu pot să vorbesc acum - Ne mogu da govorim sada.

In some cases, the infinitive sounds more poetical. And people tend to use the subjunctive more because they cannot always remember the infinitive of the verb.

I cannot think of an equivalent to "One". Just the second person:
Nu poţi să ştii întotdeauna ce vrei.
Nu poţi şti întotdeauna ce vrei.

Întrebarea trece marea

edit: corrected "third person" to second

[stabthecake]

salut salut !
Thanks Boyet, I'm beginning to understand what you were talking about when you said that everyone is still polite and kind without using somewhat stuffy-sounding titles It's pretty nice...
To respond to your question about the "era, eram, e.." pronounciations : I really liked this quesiton; it was very perceptive of you to notice this and I'm so glad to be asked. Baisically, the use or exclusion of the "y" sound at the beginning of the verb is just a regional accent. Anywhere south of the Transylvanian Alps, people usually exclude the "y" sound, whereas in Transylvania and Moldova, people most commonly do pronounce e's with more of a "yuh" sound before them. Even so, there is a difference between the way Moldovans say it and the way Transylvanians say it... It really doesn't matter very much, (think "po-tay-to, po-tah-to"). Sometimes my parents joke about misunderstandings that arose between them because of this slight variation ... when my mother, (a very Transylvanian woman), had just gotten married to my stepfather, (a very Oltenian man), he had a hard time understanding what she wanted to drink because she would pronounce coffee "caf-Yeah" and he was used to the southern pronounciation ("caf-ea"). At any rate, it's no big deal...

Hey Parousia! [very small correction to your post]

Te rog, corectează-mă daca vezi greşeale

"greşeala" is used incorrectly, it should be either "greşeli" or "vreo greşeală"



-+> ioana

[Ozymandias]

'mersi' means thankyou?! Is that a borrowing from French, or is it a native word?

[duko]

'mersi' means thankyou?! Is that a borrowing from French, or is it a native word?

Borrowed from French a long time ago, that's why it's spelled the Romanian way (just like i.e. vizavi). It's informal for "thanks". Formal thank you is "mulţumesc", in Transilvania sometimes shortened to "mulţam" <-- not considered high speech.

[stabthecake]

hey duko- are you romanian? you sure are good...

-+> ioana

[Ozymandias]

Fascinating! Thanks!

[parousia]

In some cases, the infinitive sounds more poetical.

Acesta e fel de informaţie că nu-i găsită în cărţi de limbi pentru debutanţi de obicei. [This is the kind of information that's not usually found in language books for beginners]. Mersi.

O Întrebare despre timpul viitor al verbului [A question about the future tense]:

I often consult this dictionary/conjugation site http://www.dictionare.com/english/dictionary.htm, and I've noticed that in the conjugations given, there are THREE ways to express the future tense. For example, for the 1st person conjugation of the verb "vorbir" you have:

I. (Eu) voi vorbi
II. O să vorbesc(eu)
III: Oi vorbi (eu)

I've read that the first is somewhat more formal in diction compared to the second form. The third (Oi vorbi) I don't know anything about. Is the third form used much? What are the semantic and usage differences between III and I/II?

parousia
Omul cu ruşine piere, nimeni nu-i dă pân nu cere.

[duko]

wow, Parousia, future tense, hard topic (at least for me). Now I'm really confused

Variant I definitely sounds posh and official. It uses a special form of the verb to want (a vrea) for its construction.
In everyday speech variant II is more used, I suppose because you don't have to remember the infinitive to use it

o să vorbesc
o să vorbeşti
o să vorbească
o să vorbim
o să vorbiţi
o să vorbească

What the online dictionaries don't mention is that for Variant II there is a subvariant with a form of "to have" (a avea), which goes like this:

am să vorbesc
ai să vorbeşti
are să vorbească
o să vorbim
o să vorbiţi
or să vorbească

This is the one I use most.

I googled for variant I and half of the results were religious texts.
I also got alot of results for both "o să vorbesc" and "am să vorbesc".
"am să vorbesc" sounds to my ears as less popular than "o să vorbesc",
but we really need a second opinion here.
Could any native speakers help here?

@Parousia:
I admire the way you ask your questions in Romanian, this is the right spirit for learning a language. You don't get all the words right, but
I never have problems to understand you. It's great that you started to comunicate in Romanian.

@Ioana:
Da, sunt din România. Dar limba mea maternă e slovaca
Yes, I'm from Romania. But my native language is Slovak

[stabthecake]

Ahhh - slovaca! De unde din România? Eu sunt din Sibiu

I agree that "o sa vorbesc" is more commonly used than "am sa vorbesc".. but the reaction from people is the same no matter which one you use. In English, there are many ways of saying things that no one uses but are still understood (things like "hold the phone" - people still understand the general "wait up" message, but they're thinking "who says that??!")... "am sa vorbesc", although used with less frequency, definitely doesn't have this why-are-you-still-using-that-phrase kind of result. It doesn't really make a difference... neither of the two phrases is outdated or uncommon

-+> ioana

[stabthecake]

aoleu... iertati

Sorry sorry sorry about my lack of using accents.. my current computer is defunct and ... well, when I get my new one I will finally be able to write things in proper Romanian. Some things (â and î) my computer will let me copy & paste, but that's all - it can't handle anything else. So please don't be angry with me or get confused after reading my messages..

-+> ioana

[Fenek]

Eu sunt din Sibiu

Sibiu... în limbă poloneză se spune "Sybin".

[parousia]

aoleu... iertati

Salut Ioana
Ce insemn "aoleu"? Nu l-am putut găsi în dicţionar. În plus, ai aflat "Oi vorbi/îl vorbi/o vorbi/om vorbi/îţi vorbi/or vorbi" pentru exprima timpul viitor?

[What does "aoleu" mean? I couldn't find it in the dictionary. In addition, have you heard of "Oi vorbi/îl vorbi/o vorbi/om vorbi/îţi vorbi/or vorbi" for expressing the future tense?]

Apropo Ioana, de cât timp eşti în SUA?
[By the way Ioana, how long have you been in the USA?]

Şi cineva: cum se spune pe româneşte următoarele:

peanut butter - "unt de alună americană"??
He empties the ashtry.
I would be happy to meet with you to discuss the exam. - "M-aş bucura să vă întâlnesc să discut examenul"??

Iartaţi-mă pentru intreba atâţi de mult chestiuni azi... [Forgive me for asking so many questions today.]

@duko

What the online dictionaries don't mention is that for Variant II there is a subvariant with a form of "to have" (a avea)

Mersi, Nu l-am vazut niciodată înainte. În engleză, ar însemna *obligaţie* ca "trebuie să + verb".

[I've never seen it before. In English, it would imply obligation like "trebuie să + verb".]


parousia
Omul cu ruşine piere, nimeni nu-i dă pân nu cere.

[duko]

Aoleu, or văleu, don't mean anything in particular, they are exclamations like "oh my god". They imply that something bad just happened, like when you are hurt , or you broke something, etc.

This future tense with "Oi vorbi" is really not used, you can find it in older books. A possible use for it is in an if clause, to stress the fact that the condition is unlikely to be fulfilled.
Example1:
English:
Will you drive home after the party?
Yes, if I'm still gonna be able
Romanian:
- Ai să conduci acasă după chef?
- Da, dacă oi mai fi în stare.

Example2:
English:
I don't know if I'm ever gonna see him again.
Romanian:
Nu ştiu dacă l-oi mai vedea vreodată.

Translations:
peanut butter = unt de alune
He empties the ashtry = El goleşte scrumiera.
I would be happy to meet with you to discuss the exam = M-aş bucura să vă întâlnesc ca să vorbim despre examen

Notice that you have to use the plural for peanut, otherwise it sounds funny, like making butter from one single peanut. It's a general rule, when the material is countable and small, with some exceptions. Apple juice is "suc de mere" (pl.), plum jam is "gem de prune". For pumpkin pie is singular (plăcintă de dovleac), because pumpkins are bigger and you might actually use only a half of a pumpkin to make pie.
Exceptions that I can think of are:
for plum brandy both "ţuică de prune" (pl.) and "ţuică de prună" are accepted, I have no idea why.
fish is used in singular, thus fish soup is "ciorbă de peşte", never peşti.

mm, I'm hungry again

@ Ioana: eu mi-s bănăţean

[stabthecake]

Servus la toti! Ce mai faceti?

I just have one thing to add to Duko's answers - it's about "peanut butter": When I was last in Romania (this was about..oh...a month or so ago), I saw peanut butter at a few different stores and written on all of the label was "unt de arahide". So even though "peanut butter" in Romanian is "unt de alune"..maybe the Romanian version is "unt de arahide".
There was even an herb shop where I found SPICY peanut butter... I forget what they called it.. some 'creative' name like "unt de arahide roşu".

Fenek : Hahaha - Sybin - that's awesome!

Parousia : I've been in the US for 8 years!

Duko : bănăţean - you're awesome

[parousia]

@ Ioana: eu mi-s bănăţean

Ce înseamnă "bănăţean"? Şi, de ce foloseşti "mi" acolo?

[What does "bănăţean" mean? And why do you use "mi" there?]

Pe chat, am spus Româncei "Cum eşti?" fiindcă am văzut această exprimare pe "Just Read" (http://home.unilang.org/wiki2/wiki.phtm ... -_Romanian), dar ea a spus că nu eram dreptate, şi că trebuie să zic "ce faci?" în loc. Aşa, "cum eşti" e incorect? Acesta nu se spune pe româneşte?" :roll:

[On chat, I said to a Romanian (girl) "Cum eşti?" because I had seen the expression on "Just Read," but she said that it was wrong, and that I have to say "ce faci" instead. So, is "cum eşti" incorrect? You don't say this in Romanian?]

parousia
Cine întreabă nu greşeşte.

[duko]

Ce înseamnă "bănăţean"? Şi, de ce foloseşti "mi" acolo?
[What does "bănăţean" mean? And why do you use "mi" there?]

Bănăţean, adică din Banat - regiunea de sud-vest a României.
În Banat se spune "mi-s" în loc de "sunt".

It means that I'm from Banat - the south-western part of Romania.
People say there "mi-s" instead of "sunt". I suppose it's a reflexive form of to be, "îmi îs" => contracted "mi-s"

Pe chat, i-am spus unei românce "Cum eşti?" fiindcă am văzut această exprimare pe "Just Read" (http://home.unilang.org/wiki2/wiki.phtm ... -_Romanian), dar ea a spus că nu am dreptate, şi că trebuie să zic "ce faci?" în loc . Aşa, "cum eşti" e incorect? Aceasta nu se spune pe româneşte?" :roll:

[On chat, I said to a Romanian (girl) "Cum eşti?" because I had seen the expression on "Just Read," but she said that it was wrong, and that I have to say "ce faci" instead. So, is "cum eşti" incorrect? You don't say this in Romanian?]

Nu, nu poţi folosi asta ca şi salut, deşi cunosc pe cineva care obişnuia să mă întrebe aşa. "Cum eşti" sună mai mult ca şi cum ai întreba pe cineva care tocmai s-a întors de la doctor dacă totul e în regulă.

No, you can't really use it as a salute, although I know someone who used to ask me like that. "Cum eşti" is more like asking someone who just came from the doctor if he's gonna be allright
The informal "how are you" question is in Romanian "ce faci?" or "ce mai faci?" = "what are you doing?" / "what are you doing lately?"

I have two remarks:

1) In English you say "you have right", but in Romanian and some other languages (SK, DE, YU, etc.) the correct form is "you have right" ->
(eu) am dreptate,
(tu) ai dreptate ,
(el) are dreptate, etc.

2) I'm not sure about this, but I think that in English you cannot say:
She told me that I'm not right

In Ro you can safely use the present tense for the second verb, to stress the fact that the two actions happened at the same time:
Mi-a spus (past) că nu am dreptate (present).
Basicaly with the first verb you move the point of reference to the past, and then compare the time of the second action with that point in time.

You can say "Mi-a spus că n-am avut dreptate" for something like: she told me (yesterday) that I wasn't right (sometime before yesterday)