Romanian Latin connection

User avatar
blake2go
Posts:14
Joined:2007-05-27, 19:23
Real Name:Blake Gwinn
Gender:male
Location: Ohio
Country:USUnited States (United States)
Romanian Latin connection

Postby blake2go » 2007-05-31, 22:05

Please a little information.
Do you see a direct connection,between the two?
How so and in what ways?
Thank you :D
" No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted " Aesop

User avatar
Kuba
Posts:2694
Joined:2005-11-28, 13:37
Real Name:Jakob Krystian
Gender:male
Location:Wiedeń
Country:ATAustria (Österreich)

Postby Kuba » 2007-06-01, 7:18

Of course there is a direct connection, as words like apa, opt, fumatul, înterzis, soare, ceară, salut, faci, drept, frate, semn, frig, cer, gras, patru, ochi, pulbere, zeu, când, vîrtos, cina, limbă, de, iarbă, fereastre, calitate, domnul, doamna etc.etc. show. The problem is (for Romanian nationalists) that this connection is not as close as they would love it to be...
So, unfortunately for them, Classical Latin was not pronounced as Romanians do pronounce it nowadays, Ovidius was exiled and not on a tourist trip through the beauties of Romania, Romanians are not (the only) direct descendants of the Roman Empire and so forth. ;)
Image
Image

User avatar
shadow1
Posts:33
Joined:2007-04-02, 13:55
Real Name:Modi Iuliana
Gender:female
Location: Den Haag
Country:NLThe Netherlands (Nederland)

Postby shadow1 » 2007-06-01, 13:31

What do you exactly mean with "direct connection"?
The main romanian vocabulary consists of 80% words of latin origin and the grammar is made also about 80% as the latin one.
The latin the influenced in romanian language was the one spoken by common romans who came on our territory, they mixed with the dacic people and so the romanian people came and the romanian language, so we also have dacic words, then other influences like slavic, greek, turkish, german, hungarian.
But i wonder, why we can understand very fast Italian even if we never studied it...because...they are of latin origin, so we are connected.
Another thing...we don`t want to speak latin...we are romanians, not latins. We like to have our originality...
Live life!

User avatar
Fenek
Posts:3332
Joined:2002-06-21, 20:15
Real Name:Paweł Penszko
Gender:male
Location:Warszawa
Country:PLPoland (Polska)

Postby Fenek » 2007-06-01, 14:58

shadow1 wrote:The main romanian vocabulary consists of 80% words of latin origin and the grammar is made also about 80% as the latin one.


I'm afraid you may be exaggerating a little bit.

As for the vocabulary, I don't know what you exactly mean by "main Romanian vocabulary". But when it comes to vocabulary in general, according to Dana Cojocaru:

Linguistic research shows that 20% of the Romanian vocabulary is inherited from Latin, 14% are Slavic borrowings (Old Slavic, Bulgarian, Serb, Croatian, Ukrainian, Russian), 2.37% Greek borrowings, 2.17% Hungarian borrowings, 3.7% Turkish, 2.3% Germanic, 38.4% French, 2.4% by borrowings from the classic Latin, 1.7% borrowings from Italian. There are many elements in Romanian whose origin cannot be established precisely.


As for the grammar, having learned both Latin and Romanian, I can say that Romanian grammar is very different from the Classic Latin grammar. If I was supposed to rate the degree of similarity, I'd say that 20-30% of the grammars are the same. Certainly not 80%. Unless you meant Vulgar Latin (but then Vulgar Latin didn't have all those Balkanic grammatcial features of Romanian).

However, Romanian undoubtedly stems from Latin, so there is a direct connection.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

wilsonsamm
Posts:254
Joined:2006-07-27, 23:05
Gender:male
Country:GBUnited Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby wilsonsamm » 2007-06-01, 20:17

The odd thing that baffles me, is that Romanian has the definite article at the end of the noun: om - omul. raft - raftul &c.
This in itself isn't really baffling, but that all modern languages have a definite article while Latin didn't . . .
Where can it have come from? A very late loan from Germanic or something? :noclue:

User avatar
nighean-neonach
Posts:2440
Joined:2007-01-14, 22:39
Real Name:Mona
Gender:female
Location:eadar cuan is teine

Postby nighean-neonach » 2007-06-01, 21:14

Articles are a secondary development in all Indoeuropean languages, the most ancient ones did not have articles.
In the Romance languages the articles developed from Latin pronouns like ille, ipse, etc.
Writing poetry in: Scottish Gaelic, German, English.
Reading poetry in: Latin, Old Irish, French, Ancient Greek, Old Norse.
Talking to people in the shop in: Lithuanian, Norwegian, Irish Gaelic, Saami.
Listening to people talking in the shop in: Icelandic, Greenlandic, Finnish.

User avatar
Kuba
Posts:2694
Joined:2005-11-28, 13:37
Real Name:Jakob Krystian
Gender:male
Location:Wiedeń
Country:ATAustria (Österreich)

Postby Kuba » 2007-06-01, 23:38

wilsonsamm wrote:Where can it have come from? A very late loan from Germanic or something? :noclue:

It's simple: word order was quite free in Latin, in the West people preferred to say ille locus, and in the East locus ille... And then it turned into a grammatical feature. Gotta love those unpredictable human languages. 8)
Image
Image

User avatar
blake2go
Posts:14
Joined:2007-05-27, 19:23
Real Name:Blake Gwinn
Gender:male
Location: Ohio
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Postby blake2go » 2007-06-02, 3:55

Thanks all
Banging my head against Latin.
I had hoped to more of a link in an other language.
Spanish and Italian, I see some.....but!?
Back to the books :idea:
" No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted " Aesop

User avatar
shadow1
Posts:33
Joined:2007-04-02, 13:55
Real Name:Modi Iuliana
Gender:female
Location: Den Haag
Country:NLThe Netherlands (Nederland)

Postby shadow1 » 2007-06-02, 11:50

www.learnromanian.ro/romana/limba-roman ... lfabet.php
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limba_rom
Anyway you should search more or try to learn Romanian and Latin, then you would understand, but to say that 20 % comes from Latin :twisted: ,not true at all. Anyway i knew that no one who is not romanian could understand what i meant.
But i don`t say more about it...in fact world and languages are in a continuous change. Maybe in 200 years we would say that french is 60% english :wink: .
Live life!

User avatar
Psi-Lord
Posts:10081
Joined:2002-08-18, 7:02
Real Name:Marcel Q.
Gender:male
Location:Cândido Mota
Country:BRBrazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Postby Psi-Lord » 2007-06-02, 12:22

No need to worry, shadow1. :) I doubt you’ll find anyone here who doubts Romanian is not a Romance language on its own right. The way I read the questions asked and information given so far, they’re only related to the curious features that do, after all, make Romanian the most different of the ‘big five’ (Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, and Romanian).

In my opinion, one reason the exact proportion of Latin vocabulary is hard to quantify is that Romanian has borrowed extensively from French and Italian in its modern stage, and so that can be tricky, because some sources will only count the number of Latin words in direct evolution while others will draw no distinction between evolution and borrowing (which, by the way, is often a problem in quantifying the Germanic elements in English as well). Romanian has probably also borrowed a large number of the so called ‘international words’, that often have a Greek-Latin origin as well.

So there, there, nothing to worry about, no one is proposing moving Romanian to the Slavic branch. :)
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

User avatar
Fenek
Posts:3332
Joined:2002-06-21, 20:15
Real Name:Paweł Penszko
Gender:male
Location:Warszawa
Country:PLPoland (Polska)

Postby Fenek » 2007-06-02, 13:57

Wikipedia românească (http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limba_română) wrote:
Vocabularul reprezentativ (de bază) al limbii române, (cf. Sala, M. et.al., Vocabularul reprezentativ al limbilor romanice, Ed. Şt. Encicl. Bucureşti, 1988, p.19-79), situaţia se prezintă astfel:
Elemente romanice 71.66%, din care
30,33% latineşti moştenite
22,12% franceze
15,26% latineşti savante
3,95% italiene
Formaţii interne 3,91% (majoritatea fiind bazate pe etimoane latine)
Slave total 14,17%, din care
9,18% slava veche
2,6% bulgăreşti
1,12% ruseşti
0,85% sârbo-croate
0,23% ucrainene
0,19% poloneze
Germane 2,47%
Neogreceşti 1,7%
Traco-dace de substrat 0,96%
Maghiare 1,43%
Turceşti 0,73%
Englezeşti 0,07% (în creştere)
Onomatopee 0,19%
Origine incertă 2,71%
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

Makrasiroutioun
Posts:162
Joined:2007-09-08, 20:05
Gender:male
Location: Montréal
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Postby Makrasiroutioun » 2007-10-12, 21:03

Don't forget that there is that very deep substratum of Dacian... so some words, mostly agricultural or natural terms, actually pre-date Roman conquest and settlement of modern-day Romania.

The exact classification of Dacian is disputed. Some say it was a Thracian language or group of languages, some class it together with Daco-Thracian, some say Illyrian, some say that it was more closely related to Phrygian, some say that Dacian was very close to Albanian.

All of the aforesaid are Indo-European languages, by the way. Though we lack the lexicon to come to any useful conclusion.

crisss
Posts:5
Joined:2007-11-25, 21:55
Real Name:simion cristina
Gender:female
Location: cluj
Country:RORomania (România)

Postby crisss » 2007-11-25, 22:59

Hi there.I found this site looking for romanian ancient history.
And i found almost nothing.
The romanian language looks alike italian, seeming to have common roots ,but ...I don't know what to say.
People of Dacia and Tracia seemed to be celts ( there are romanian traditions like Samhain -considered today pagan but very much alive -coming back from celts,also dac people had the belagine laws -legile frumoase -beautiful laws ,as a code of humanity and honour )
Actually the roman ancient people consisted of many tribes , illyrians,Osco-umbrians,Raetians...etc,indo-europeans or non indo-europeans.
Also in Dacia existed the zoroastrian cult of Mithra ,a deity dressed like a dac .So there are many old influences mixed once .
But I think that dac people didn't embraced the latin language because they had a similar language.
I don't know anything similar in history ,a people who leaves its language in favor of another and in such a short time.
Actually,the dac people were killed because they had gold mines,and romans nedeed the gold .The roman empire was on its final way...
There are also romanian dialects like istro romanian,megleno-romanian,aromanian ...
The language is now composed from words coming god knows from where.
For ex the word grace -HAR -is intact preserved from
babilonian ,with the same meaning .
Also HAR went to egiptian language faro-har is the ancient form for faraon /pharaon
Horoscope/horoscop comes from egiptian /the meaning was "the day when a king is born " -ziua cind se naste un rege.

tryes
Posts:2
Joined:2010-08-31, 5:14

Re: Romanian Latin connection

Postby tryes » 2010-09-01, 21:37

this site helped clear a few uncertain things about development of romanian language.http://web.fu-berlin.de/phin/phin43/p43t2.htm

danciprian
Posts:44
Joined:2011-04-04, 11:44
Real Name:Dan Ciprian
Gender:male
Location:Roman
Country:RORomania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian Latin connection

Postby danciprian » 2011-04-04, 12:30

Hello!
There are some words in romanian that come from Latin. I cannot say that Romanian is a fully Latin root language because in our language, many influences appear. Besides Latin e have Slavonic, Turkish, and so on. We must note that even in Latin some words come from Greek, the transliteration was the way for them.
En arhe en ho logos, kai logos en pros ton Theon, kai Theos en ho logos!


Return to “Romanian (Română)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests