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Rhaegar
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Postby Rhaegar » 2005-10-11, 15:23

Liisi wrote:
Rhaegar wrote:Hei, olen tullut takaisin ja haluan opiskella vielä suomea :).


Hyvä! Olen iloinen, että haluat opiskella suomea :). Mitä sinulle kuuluu tänään?

Vielä = more, still
(Ei) enää = (Not) anymore, (no) more


Hmm..I have 'vielä' down as 'yet'..I guess 'yet more'?

----

Kyllä, olen pidän opiskella suomea. Niin, minä muistan vähän suoema - helppo ainen ;).
When I made my pitstop, I sure had a tankful,
Then she blew my gasket; I surely was thankful.
'Till I'm up in the skies up above,
It's a woman with wheels that I love.

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Postby Liisi » 2005-10-11, 16:11

Jonne wrote:
Liisi wrote:
Alcadras wrote:toivon, että sinulla on hauskaa, kun opiskelet suomea :D


Or 'toivon, että sinulla on hauskaa suomea opiskellessasi'


I specially didn't write this, because I think it's too complicated for beginners, if you can say it another way. But for those who need challenge, sure, this sounds even better :).

Rhaegar wrote:Hmm..I have 'vielä' down as 'yet'..I guess 'yet more'?

----

Kyllä, pidän suomen opiskelusta. Niin, minä muistan vähän suomea - helppo ainen :?:


Ah yes... vielä = more, still, yet.

Saisinko vielä teetä? = Can I have some more tea, please?
Oletko vielä täällä? = Are you still here?
En ole vielä kotona. = I'm not at home yet.

The question mark ( :?: ) in my correction means that I didn't understand the word before it.
I appreciate corrections to my mistakes in any language.

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Postby Alcadras » 2005-10-11, 17:46

@Liisi
Rhaegar used "olen iloinen" and it means "i'm back".
so why did you add tullut ?

does it mean "to arrive" ? :roll:

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Postby Liisi » 2005-10-11, 18:40

Alcadras wrote:@Liisi
Rhaegar used "olen iloinen" and it means "i'm back".
so why did you add tullut ?

does it mean "to arrive" ? :roll:


Rhaegar wrote olen takaisin, which is grammatically incorrect Finnish. In English you can say I'm back, but the Finnish word takaisin can't be used like that. (It would mean that you actually are something that is called "takaisin", which is an absurd sentence, of course ;)). Olen tullut takaisin means literally "I've come back", but it's the correct way to say this.

You could also say Olen taas täällä, "I'm here again" (I would probably use that myself).

Saapua = to arrive
Iloinen = happy
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Postby Rhaegar » 2005-10-11, 19:19

I think it's all these little things that'll take the longest to learn, recognize and remember with Finnish, since English can have many meanings for one word, but in other languages, it doesn't work as well...this'll be interesting to say the least :P
When I made my pitstop, I sure had a tankful,

Then she blew my gasket; I surely was thankful.

'Till I'm up in the skies up above,

It's a woman with wheels that I love.

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Postby Alcadras » 2005-10-16, 15:56

äimistelen , Miksi on täällä juuri se passiivinen ? :roll:

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-16, 17:07

Alcadras wrote:äimistelen , Miksi on täällä juuri se passiivinen ? :roll:


What do you mean (in English)?

Did you want to say, "I wonder, why it is so passive here"?

"Äimistelen" is correctly conjugated and correctly used here, but it is a very rare verb. In everyday speach it is safer to use the more common "ihmettelen" (from ihmetellä). Otherwise you sound like you're trying to be funny ;).

"Ihmettelen, (että) miksi täällä on niin passiivista."
(Technically, the above is not a question, but a statement, and thus I didn't use a question mark :).)



And I wonder about that, too. I hope you are all just busy studying Finnish, and haven't given it up!

Ja minäkin ihmettelen sitä. Toivon, että vain opiskelette suomea kiireisesti, ettekä ole antaneet periksi!

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Postby Alcadras » 2005-10-16, 17:12

why passiivista ?

and it seems ,i haven't exactly learn word order :D

miksi täällä on
miksi on täällä

maybe i am just thinking english.

okay i won't think english anymore , but how can i think Finnish ? :D

no of course i haven't given up.
i just can't have much time.

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Postby CoBB » 2005-10-16, 18:36

Note that English also uses 'straight' word order in these situations, look: 'I wonder why it is so hard.'
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-17, 9:04

Alcadras wrote:why passiivista ?


Because the nominative is passiivinen (adjective), but here we must put this word in partitive, and so it becomes passiivista.

Words that end in -nen (usually adjectives, but sometimes also nouns), are conjugated into cases like this:

passiivinen (nominative)
passiivisen (put it in genitive)
passiivista (for partitive, remove -en and add case ending)
passiivisella (for all other cases, like this adessive, remove only -n and add case ending)

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Postby patrick » 2005-10-19, 17:08

Hei, minun nimeni on Patrick. Minä asun Amerikkassa, ja olen amerikkalainen. Minä ajattelen suomi on hyvin kiinnostava kieli. Mutta oikeastaan minä olen innoittava (by :?: ) mun heilani (tyttöystäväni :?: ), joka on suomalainen, auskultoidakseni kielen. Minä olen ollut lukeva tämä foorumi usein, se on hyvin auttavainen. :D Kiitos ajaksi hyödyllinen resurssi. :)

Minä toivon tuo ei ole liiaksi huono.. :oops:

( Hi, my name is Patrick. I live in America, and am American. I think Finnish is a very interesting language. But really I am inpsired by my girlfriend, who is Finnish, to learn the language. I have been reading this forum often, it is very helpful. Thanks for the useful resource. :D

I hope that isn't too bad.. :oops: )

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-19, 18:25

patrick wrote:Hei, minun nimeni on Patrick. Minä asun Amerikkassa, ja olen amerikkalainen. Minä ajattelen suomi on hyvin kiinnostava kieli. Mutta oikeastaan minä olen innoittava (by :?: ) mun heilani (tyttöystäväni :?: ), joka on suomalainen, auskultoidakseni kielen. Minä olen ollut lukeva tämä foorumi usein, se on hyvin auttavainen. :D Kiitos ajaksi hyödyllinen resurssi. :)

Minä toivon tuo ei ole liiaksi huono.. :oops:

( Hi, my name is Patrick. I live in America, and am American. I think Finnish is a very interesting language. But really I am inpsired by my girlfriend, who is Finnish, to learn the language. I have been reading this forum often, it is very helpful. Thanks for the useful resource. :D

I hope that isn't too bad.. :oops: )


Hei, Patrick. Ei sinun suomesi ollut hirveän huonoa :). Muutama virhe kuitenkin oli:

Hi, Patrick. Your Finnish wasn't terribly bad :). There were a few mistakes, though:

:arrow: Hei, minun nimeni on Patrick. Minä asun Amerikassa, ja olen amerikkalainen. Minusta suomi on hyvin kiinnostava kieli. Mutta oikeastaan mun heilani (tyttöystäväni), joka on suomalainen, on innoittanut minut oppimaan kielen. Minä olen lukenut tätä foorumia usein, se on hyvin hyödyllinen. :D Kiitos hyödyllisestä resurssista. :)

Minä toivon, että tuo ei ole liiaksi huono.. :oops:

1. In Finnish, we don't say "I think that..." unless we mean really the thought process thinking. Opinions are expressed by the personal pronoun in elative:

Minusta A on B.
Sinusta A on B.
Heistä A on B.
etc...

2. inspire = innoittaa

He has inspired me.
Hän on innoittanut minut.

3. It's best for a beginner to use short sentences to avoid making mistakes in word order (as you can see, I changed the word order to make it all fit in one sentence).

4. "Heila" is an okay word, but a little old fashioned. "Tyttöystävä" is more neutral.

5. In Finnish, when speaking about reading, you have to keep in mind wether you mean you read in general or you read the whole thing completely. If you mean you read in general, put the thing you read in partitive:

Luen tä.
I read this.

6. Auttavainen = a person who likes to help.
Hyödyllinen = useful (and also the closest thing to "helpful" in Finnish).

7. Thank you for this = Kiitos tästä (<- it must be in elative).

8. Note that in Finnish there is no saying like "It's not too bad" (=it's not that bad). If you say "liian/liiaksi huono", you really mean "too much bad".

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Postby CoBB » 2005-10-19, 18:28

Varislintu wrote:4. "Heila" is an okay word, but a little old fashioned. "Tyttöystävä" is more neutral.

What about gimmafrendi?
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!



A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

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Postby patrick » 2005-10-19, 20:24

Varislintu wrote:Hei, Patrick. Ei sinun suomesi ollut hirveän huonoa :). Muutama virhe kuitenkin oli:

Hi, Patrick. Your Finnish wasn't terribly bad :). There were a few mistakes, though:

:arrow: Hei, minun nimeni on Patrick. Minä asun Amerikassa, ja olen amerikkalainen. Minusta suomi on hyvin kiinnostava kieli. Mutta oikeastaan mun heilani (tyttöystäväni), joka on suomalainen, on innoittanut minut oppimaan kielen. Minä olen lukenut tätä foorumia usein, se on hyvin hyödyllinen. :D Kiitos hyödyllisestä resurssista. :)

Minä toivon, että tuo ei ole liiaksi huono.. :oops:

1. In Finnish, we don't say "I think that..." unless we mean really the thought process thinking. Opinions are expressed by the personal pronoun in elative:

Minusta A on B.
Sinusta A on B.
Heistä A on B.
etc...

2. inspire = innoittaa

He has inspired me.
Hän on innoittanut minut.

3. It's best for a beginner to use short sentences to avoid making mistakes in word order (as you can see, I changed the word order to make it all fit in one sentence).

4. "Heila" is an okay word, but a little old fashioned. "Tyttöystävä" is more neutral.

5. In Finnish, when speaking about reading, you have to keep in mind wether you mean you read in general or you read the whole thing completely. If you mean you read in general, put the thing you read in partitive:

Luen tä.
I read this.

6. Auttavainen = a person who likes to help.
Hyödyllinen = useful (and also the closest thing to "helpful" in Finnish).

7. Thank you for this = Kiitos tästä (<- it must be in elative).

8. Note that in Finnish there is no saying like "It's not too bad" (=it's not that bad). If you say "liian/liiaksi huono", you really mean "too much bad".

Vai niin, kiitos. :D
So saying 'to learn' in that way, the third infinitive illative is the appropriate form? -maan was originally what I was going to use though until I had convinced myself that that would be wrong for whatever reason. :oops: But then I guess I had the entirely wrong word anyway. :? I think sometimes I just want to make things too complicated for myself. :roll:

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-21, 19:36

patrick wrote:Vai niin, kiitos. :D
So saying 'to learn' in that way, the third infinitive illative is the appropriate form? -maan was originally what I was going to use though until I had convinced myself that that would be wrong for whatever reason. :oops: But then I guess I had the entirely wrong word anyway. :? I think sometimes I just want to make things too complicated for myself. :roll:


That's right, the third infinitive illative (otherwise known on these forums as the -maan/-mään form :lol:) is the correct form here. It is required because the second verb is combined with the verb "innoittaa":

Imperfect tense:
Hän on innoittanut minut [verb in third infinitive illative].

She has inspired me to [verb].

Present tense:
Hän innoittaa minut [verb in third infinitive illative].

She inspires me to [verb].


(Note that for both these tenses, you can also use the word "minua" (partitive) instead of "minut", if you mean that the inspiration on you has been mild, or partial in some other sense.

----------------------

And don't worry about having had the wrong verb. Although to be honest, I haven't even heard of such a verb as "auskultoida". It must be a very professional term, and shouldn't be used in every day Finnish. But you probably didn't know that, so don't worry :).

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-21, 19:44

CoBB wrote:
Varislintu wrote:4. "Heila" is an okay word, but a little old fashioned. "Tyttöystävä" is more neutral.

What about gimmafrendi?


That's good if you want to speak Helsinki slang ;). And I have to add that it is a widespread practise in Finland to use rare/oldfashioned/slang-based words in order to sound more... well, more casual, and funny. It's like making little jokes with the language (that no one is supposed to laugh at, though). So it is not at all unheard of that people indeed speak of their "heila" or their "gimmafrendi".

I guess other languages must have similar traits. I'm not sure English does, though. In English, you seem to be always bound to only your local vocabulary, and standard English. But I'm no expert on that.

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Postby Varislintu » 2005-10-25, 13:37

Hmm, I wonder where Rhaegar has gone to? Hope he hasn't given up :).

Rhaegar wrote:
Varislintu wrote:8. With weekdays, if you want to say ON Monday, ON Tuesday and so on, add the suffix -na (essive).


Hmm..another case I haven't learned yet...

Is is universal, in that any word in essive has the suffix -na? Does the non-root part of the word have to be adjusted at all, or does it just add on..for example..Torstaina?


All words in essive end in -na (of course they may have another suffix added on top of that one, though). But yes, the root (or stem) of the word sometimes has to be adjusted.

Note also that essive can mean two slightly different things. If a time unit is in essive, it means "on/during that time unit":

torstaina (on Thursday)
vuotena (during this year)

Some time units can also be conjugated with adessive to make the same meaning:

ensi viikkona (on next week)
ensi viikolla (on next week)

kautena (during this season)
llä kaudella (during this season)


When a noun is in essive, it means "as a...".

tyttö (girl) - tyttönä (as a girl)
koira (dog) - koirana (as a dog)

BUT time units in essive can ALSO take this meaning:

vuosi (year) - vuotena (as a year)
viikko (week) - viikkona (as a week)

Which one you mean is seen from the context.

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Postby Jonne » 2005-10-25, 15:16

I'd rather use "tänä vuonna" than "tänä vuotena"

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Postby Liisi » 2005-10-25, 18:15

Jonne wrote:I'd rather use "tänä vuonna" than "tänä vuotena"


Me too. I'd say also ensi viikolla and tällä kaudella instead of ensi viikkona and tänä kautena. It may be perfectly correct to use essive in these cases, but for me adessive is more natural. In cases like ensi perjantaina ("next Friday") and tänä talvena ("this winter") essive is the only possibility, I guess.

Niin minäkin. Sanoisin myös ensi viikolla ja tällä kaudella, enkä ensi viikkona ja tänä kautena. Essiivin käyttö näissä tapauksissa on varmaankin aivan oikein, mutta minusta adessiivi tuntuu luonnollisemmalta. Sellaisissa tapauksissa kuin ensi perjantaina ("next Friday") ja tänä talvena ("this winter") essiivi taitaa olla ainoa vaihtoehto.
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Postby Egein » 2005-10-25, 21:37

Isn't supposed to be with -lla if there is no atriubute and -na if there is or something?
And days allways take -na right?

Like...

Tänä vuonna olen iloinen.

Ensi vuodella tulen iloiseksi

haha...my phrases probably suck and make no sence but if I recall my grammar book which is too far to reach now, that's the rule.

I should go check one day.
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