Additions to Unilang's Resources on Finnish

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Egein
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Postby Egein » 2007-06-03, 21:35

Munkin pitäis tehdä jotain sellaista islanniksi.
Jos Steisi uskaltaa, siispä mäkin voin.
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Postby Kuitenkin » 2007-06-03, 21:41

Stacy wrote:Behold! Look what I did! :mrgreen:

http://static.unilang.org/resources/pro ... shpron.php


Hienoa. Muutama pieni korjaus vain.

[ŋ]-äännehän esiintyy kahdessa tapauksessa:

-nk- ääntyy [ŋk] - esim. lanka ['laŋka]
-ng- ääntyy [ŋ:] (eli pitkä [ŋ]) - esim. langat ['laŋ:at]

Kannattaa varmaankin mainita myös, että sanapaino on aina ensimmäisellä tavulla.

Niin ja löytyy ei itse asiassa tarkoita 'finds' vaan 'is found'. ('Finds' olisi tietysti löytää.) :)

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Postby Steisi » 2007-06-04, 7:25

Kuitenkin wrote:
Hienoa. Muutama pieni korjaus vain.

[ŋ]-äännehän esiintyy kahdessa tapauksessa:

-nk- ääntyy [ŋk] - esim. lanka ['laŋka]
-ng- ääntyy [ŋ:] (eli pitkä [ŋ]) - esim. langat ['laŋ:at]

Kannattaa varmaankin mainita myös, että sanapaino on aina ensimmäisellä tavulla.


Joo kiitos! Teen ne heti valmiiksi ja sit pitää odottaa että abavagada laittaa ne nettiin. :yep:

Niin ja löytyy ei itse asiassa tarkoita 'finds' vaan 'is found'. ('Finds' olisi tietysti löytää.) :)


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Postby Serpent » 2007-06-04, 10:05

Ä /æ/
Cat. Never said like German ä!
:o mä lausun sitä saksaksi noin samalla tavalla kuin englanniksi :lol:
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Postby Steisi » 2007-06-04, 10:45

Serpent wrote:
Ä /æ/
Cat. Never said like German ä!
:o mä lausun sitä saksaksi noin samalla tavalla kuin englanniksi :lol:


Saksan a kuulostaa suurimman osan ajasta /ɛ/:ltä tai /e/ltä..siksi he eivät osaa erottaa sanoja bet ja bat. ^^

Suomen ä on /æ/ :yep:
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Postby Steisi » 2007-06-04, 12:30

Kuitenkin wrote:
Stacy wrote:Behold! Look what I did! :mrgreen:

http://static.unilang.org/resources/pro ... shpron.php


Hienoa. Muutama pieni korjaus vain.

[ŋ]-äännehän esiintyy kahdessa tapauksessa:

-nk- ääntyy [ŋk] - esim. lanka ['laŋka]
-ng- ääntyy [ŋ:] (eli pitkä [ŋ]) - esim. langat ['laŋ:at]

Kannattaa varmaankin mainita myös, että sanapaino on aina ensimmäisellä tavulla.

Niin ja löytyy ei itse asiassa tarkoita 'finds' vaan 'is found'. ('Finds' olisi tietysti löytää.) :)


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Postby Varislintu » 2007-10-11, 8:50

Explanation of the partitive has been added to the wiki:

[wiki]Finnish cases[/wiki]

If there are more aspects of the partitive that you can think of that could be added, please do tell ;).
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Postby Monique » 2008-03-23, 11:30

I want to share two sites which help a lot in learning vocabulary:

http://www.finnishschool.com

and

http://albis.vetsin.com/cgi/content.pl

Have a look:))

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Postby Latis » 2008-07-14, 21:49

I added some examples in the Finnish Alphebet section on the wiki to what it would sound like to a english person, along with IPA and the positions of the mouth in the notes section. Tomorrow I plan on adding more cases. So far I only see Partitive...lot more cases to go :P

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Postby Varislintu » 2008-07-15, 7:36

Latis wrote:I added some examples in the Finnish Alphebet section on the wiki to what it would sound like to a english person, along with IPA and the positions of the mouth in the notes section. Tomorrow I plan on adding more cases. So far I only see Partitive...lot more cases to go :P


Yay, that's great :)! The alphabet page has been lacking the IPA for so long.
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Postby Latis » 2008-07-15, 17:30

Yeah, I don't know about the examples though. It's kinda slanted for an American-accent based pronunciation. I also wanted to add a section of what English-speakers might have trouble with (h, t, d, p, r, ö), but I left it out because I thought it would be English-biased again. I don't know :S

What I'm worried about is adding more cases to the wiki...it will have to change the structure of the Finnish cases page. I wikipedia'd the cases to make sure I got them all, and it has a nifty little chart. Perhaps we should make one like it? And each case has its own page? I don't know.

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Postby Varislintu » 2008-07-15, 18:32

Latis wrote:Yeah, I don't know about the examples though. It's kinda slanted for an American-accent based pronunciation. I also wanted to add a section of what English-speakers might have trouble with (h, t, d, p, r, ö), but I left it out because I thought it would be English-biased again. I don't know :S


You could well make a new page called something like "Further tips for English speakers", if the content will be that "biased" :).

Latis wrote:What I'm worried about is adding more cases to the wiki...it will have to change the structure of the Finnish cases page. I wikipedia'd the cases to make sure I got them all, and it has a nifty little chart. Perhaps we should make one like it? And each case has its own page? I don't know.


Sure, the Cases page could be just a portal page with links to all the separate case pages. It's easy to just copy/paste the current stuff about partitive into a new page about only partitive :).

In fact, I can do that now.

EDIT: Well, I made it a portal page and started a list there. Feel free to go for some other solution if that suits you better, of course :).
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Postby Latis » 2008-07-15, 19:15

kiitos

EDIT: First problem is naming the new pages. Nominative will link to a general nominative case instead of the planned-finnish one. Should we instead link for nominatiivi and hope it doesn't interfere with an Estonian-based nominative page? :P

I'm new to editing wikipedia articles and don't know how to get by that :S

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Postby Steisi » 2008-07-15, 20:01

Erm.. I made a Finnish pronunciation resource ages ago, and it already has the IPA in it ;) It's linked in these resources.

Here it is again:
http://static.unilang.org/resources/pronscript/finnishpron.php

Why not just add that to the wiki? :D
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Postby geoff » 2008-07-15, 20:06

Latis wrote:kiitos

EDIT: First problem is naming the new pages. Nominative will link to a general nominative case instead of the planned-finnish one. Should we instead link for nominatiivi and hope it doesn't interfere with an Estonian-based nominative page? :P

I'm new to editing wikipedia articles and don't know how to get by that :S


All pages in the wiki concerning a specific language should be prefixed with the language name, e.g.:
[[Finnish grammar: partitive]]
When actually linking the pages inside the wiki you don't need to always show the whole name, but can make the link look any way you like, e.g. [[Finnish grammar: partitive|partitiivi]]

If you are new to editing wiki pages take a look at the help pages, you should find all the info you need there.
Last edited by geoff on 2008-07-15, 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Latis » 2008-07-15, 20:07

Stacy wrote:Erm.. I made a Finnish pronunciation resource ages ago, and it already has the IPA in it ;) It's linked in these resources.

Here it is again:
http://static.unilang.org/resources/pronscript/finnishpron.php

Why not just add that to the wiki? :D


Ugh, and I was just on that page a few days ago. I think that would be a much better idea because the sound clips really help. although it did crash my Firefox :P

Do you want to add a link to the wiki, or just copy what's on there to the alphabet page, or?

geoff wrote:
Latis wrote:kiitos

EDIT: First problem is naming the new pages. Nominative will link to a general nominative case instead of the planned-finnish one. Should we instead link for nominatiivi and hope it doesn't interfere with an Estonian-based nominative page? :P

I'm new to editing wikipedia articles and don't know how to get by that :S


All pages in the wiki concerning a specific language should be prefixed with the language name, e.g.:
[[Finnish grammar: partitive]]
If you are new to editing wiki pages take a look at the help pages, you should find all the info you need there.


Thanks, but now I even question if they should all have different pages. I mean the nominative...I'm trying to think of something to say in it. It's just basic with no suffix. All I could talk about is nominals and watch in amazement of how to add a -t- to make them plural.

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Postby Virankannos » 2008-07-15, 20:53

What do other people here think about exessive being mentioned in the list of cases? Seems that it's listed in Wikipedia too. I do agree that it is a case in Finnish (which conveniently completes the "trinity" of the essive group :wink: ) and that it can even be considered productive in a way. However, it's still very dialectal and I remember having heard it used once, on TV by an elderly lady who as far as I know spoke Savo dialect.

So I think it may be better not to mention it in the list of the main cases, since exessive is not one of them, especially in the written language. It could be mentioned somewhere else as a dialectal rarity. What do you guys think?

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Postby Latis » 2008-07-15, 20:59

A lot of people have taken both sides of the issue. Some want to exclude it and not even mention it as a case, some prefer to leave it in (I think most linguist prefer the latter).

Maybe the exessive should be done last with a mention of "Not used too much" or something.

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Postby Varislintu » 2008-07-15, 21:03

I have never heard or seen the exessive used :hmm:. I guess it depends on if we want these wiki pages to be a source of info or a sourceof learning material. As learning material, the case is next to useless to mention.
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Postby Virankannos » 2008-07-15, 21:09

Latis wrote:A lot of people have taken both sides of the issue. Some want to exclude it and not even mention it as a case, some prefer to leave it in (I think most linguist prefer the latter).

Maybe the exessive should be done last with a mention of "Not used too much" or something.
I do find it worth mentioning, of course, but not in the main cases list. Somehow in the way you described, like placing it under the title "Rare cases" or something like that. By the way, exessive is not even mentioned in the Finnish Wikipedia article about Finnish and in many other lists I managed to dig up.

Varislintu wrote:As learning material, the case is next to useless to mention.
My point exactly. It may confuse things even more, on top of all the other tricky things in our language :D


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