Czech discussion group

[Mara]

má čeština ještě differences between written and spoken language?

Sure it has and also differences between spoken dialects. It´s not that bad as if Plattdütsch would talk Bavarian but for such a small nation it´s enough. For diglossy there are rules like:
-ý on the end of the word is -ej in common speech
but it´s too hard and you should choose which common Czech you want to learn. E. g. when a girl from my town told to her East Bohemian roommate "Rožni" (Switch on the light), the roommate was just laughing off her ass and then asked her what does it mean (it´s rozsviť in codified Czech). Another guy asked "Kaj mam cukle?" (Where are my slippers?) and he wasn´t understood as well cause it should be "Kde mám papuče?" Etc. etc.

Right, but you were talking about dialects not spoken language. I would say spoken/colloquial Czech is not that much different from the "high" Czech. What makes it interesting and more difficult are the dialectal words inserted into the language. So, the sentence "Kaj mam cukle?" can't be considered spoken (meaning colloquial) Czech.

Frankly, I would suggest that all of you students of Czech stick to the proper form. It's not only easier for you, there is also less room for misunderstandings (you can't avoid them, anyway).

Jasně, ale ty jsi mluvil o nářečích, nikoliv o mluveném jazyku. Řekl bych, že mluvená či hovorová čeština není zase tolik odlišná od spisovné češtiny. Nářeční slova vkládaná do jazyka mu dodávají na barvitosti a obtížnosti. Takže věta "Kaj mam cukle?" se nedá považovat za mluvenou (čímž mám na mysli hovorovou) češtinu.

Upřímně řečeno, všem vám studentům češtiny bych doporučil, abyste se drželi spisovného jazyka. Nejen že to je pro vás snadnější, ale zároveň máte míň prostoru pro nedorozumění (stejně se jim nevyhnete).

[projetdefleur]

Já žádám uvědomím se po čeština (češtiny jazyk?)

OK, so I don't really know much yet, but I've changed my language focus now to slavic languages, and I like the look of czech. Do we have any native speakers?

[Mara]

Já žádám uvědomím se po čeština (češtiny jazyk?)

OK, so I don't really know much yet, but I've changed my language focus now to slavic languages, and I like the look of czech. Do we have any native speakers?

Of course we do have native Czech speakers. I think we are at least three here. But you need to work on your Czech: I couldn't understand what you wanted to say. Too many verbs. Don't despair, we can help you.

[rotzi]

Hi,

I'm still looking for a monolingual dictionary of Czech (as modern as possible). Does this exist in a handy format? There has to be *something*, I think, but I'm not looking for some 13-volume reference work of the Czech language.
I've looked through amazon and the like and Czech bookstore sites, but so far I haven't found anything of interest.

Thanks for any hints.

Ahoj,
hledám jednojazyčný slovník češtiny (co možná nejmodernější). Existuje něco takého na praktickém formátu? Myslím, že musí být *něco*, ale nehledám žádný třináctisvazkový referenční spis o českém jazyku.
Přehlédl jsem amazon a podobné a i česká online knihkupectví, ale až dosud jsem nic zajímavého nenašel.

dominik

--
Please don't hesitate to correct me on linguistic (and other) issues.

[Mara]

I'm still looking for a monolingual dictionary of Czech (as modern as possible). ...

Yes, there is such a dictionary; you can even choose between a CD-ROM and a "regular" book. The two, however, are not the same.

The CD-ROM includes about 45 000 words, you can get it from Kosmas.cz and it was issued in 2004. It's title is Slovník spisovné češtiny.

The book edition includes about 50 000 words, it's in one volume and it was issued in 2001. It's title is Slovník spisovné češtiny pro školu a veřejnost and you can buy it from Kosmas.cz as well.

You may want to check Vltava.cz if they have these two dictionaries available.


Ano, takový slovník existuje. Dokonce si můžeš vybrat mezi CD-ROMem a "normální" knihou. Tahle dvě vydání ale nejsou stejná.

CD-ROM obsahuje asi 45 000 slov, dostaneš ho na Kosmas.cz a byl vydaný v roce 2004. Jmenuje se Slovník spisovné češtiny.

Knižní vydání obsahuje asi 50 000 slov, je to v jednom svazku a bylo vydáno v roce 2001. Jmenuje se Slovník spisovné češtiny pro školu a veřejnost a taky ho můžeš koupit na Kosmas.cz.

Možná se podívej na Vltava.cz, jestli tam tyhle dva slovníky nemají taky.

[rotzi]

I'm still looking for a monolingual dictionary of Czech (as modern as possible). ...

[...]
Ano, takový slovník existuje. Dokonce si můžeš vybrat mezi CD-ROMem a "normální" knihou. Tahle dvě vydání ale nejsou stejná.
[...]
Knižní vydání obsahuje asi 50 000 slov, je to v jednom svazku a bylo vydáno v roce 2001. Jmenuje se Slovník spisovné češtiny pro školu a veřejnost a taky ho můžeš koupit na Kosmas.cz.

Díky moc, to je přesně to, co jsem hledal.
ahoj,
dominik

[Axystos]

I've recently begun learning Czech and already I'm having problems.

I know that Czech verbs have aspect, and that for each english verbs you should learn both versions of the Czech verb. The problem is that my (cheap, I admit it) Dutch-Czech dictionary only gives one version, with no possibility of finding out what the other one looks like.

I was wondering if any of you knew about a czech imperfect - perfect verb list on the net, so that I won't have to ask here all the time what the perfect form of, say, rušit is..?

[Guest]

Axystos, I don't think there is such a list online. The imperfect-perfect is actually not that straightforward. Many times the aspect changes just by adding a prefix or a sufix to a verb.

So, for example, the verb rušit (which has an imperfect aspect) will become vyrušit (perfect aspect), or přerušit (perfect aspect); however, these verbs have more or less different meanings. I would even say there are not too many "true" pairs. So, don't fret too much about it, at least not now when you have just started.

I've recently begun learning Czech and already I'm having problems.

I know that Czech verbs have aspect, and that for each english verbs you should learn both versions of the Czech verb. The problem is that my (cheap, I admit it) Dutch-Czech dictionary only gives one version, with no possibility of finding out what the other one looks like.

I was wondering if any of you knew about a czech imperfect - perfect verb list on the net, so that I won't have to ask here all the time what the perfect form of, say, rušit is..?

[Mara]

That was me, Mara. For some reason, I got logged out.

Axystos, I don't think there is such a list online. The imperfect-perfect is actually not that straightforward. Many times the aspect changes just by adding a prefix or a sufix to a verb.

So, for example, the verb rušit (which has an imperfect aspect) will become vyrušit (perfect aspect), or přerušit (perfect aspect); however, these verbs have more or less different meanings. I would even say there are not too many "true" pairs. So, don't fret too much about it, at least not now when you have just started.

I've recently begun learning Czech and already I'm having problems.

I know that Czech verbs have aspect, and that for each english verbs you should learn both versions of the Czech verb. The problem is that my (cheap, I admit it) Dutch-Czech dictionary only gives one version, with no possibility of finding out what the other one looks like.

I was wondering if any of you knew about a czech imperfect - perfect verb list on the net, so that I won't have to ask here all the time what the perfect form of, say, rušit is..?

[Axystos]

Mara, thanks for your answer.

The reason why I'm already worrying about the imperfect-perfect stuff is because I'm already familiar with that idea, since I know russian (and since I'm assuming that in czech it's basically the same), and because don't want to "re-learn" later all the verbs that I encounter now without perfect aspect.

As for the "not too many 'true' pairs": I think I know what you mean.
What exactly is the difference between vyrušit and přerušit? According to my dictionary the first one means "to disturb", and the second one "to interrupt"? Correct? Or is my dictionary too simplistic?

[Lada]

What exactly is the difference between vyrušit and přerušit? According to my dictionary the first one means "to disturb", and the second one "to interrupt"? Correct? Or is my dictionary too simplistic?

in simplified variant it is correct

according to my dictionary:

vyrušovat - vyrušit - to bother, to disturb, to trouble, to put to inconvenience, to worry
přerušovat - přerušit - to stop, to interrupt, to break (the silence)

everything works like in russian so i hope you understand the difference

[Majka]

according to my dictionary:

vyrušovat - vyrušit - to bother, to disturb, to trouble, to put to inconvenience, to worry
přerušovat - přerušit - to stop, to interrupt, to break (the silence)

Ahoj, Lado!

Yes, that's it.
There's one more:
zrušit with the only imperfective rušit - to cancel

Majka

And another thing, concerning the dictionary - Slovník spisovné češtiny pro školu a veřejnost. Unfortunately, there's only standard Czech involved, so one can't actually find many of the words people use talking...

[Majka]

Well, that's also it's title: Standard Czech Dictionary...It's just driving me mad sometimes, that there's no interest for the language people really use.

[Mara]

I would think that's because spoken language can change way too quickly for it to be included in a dictionary.

Well, that's also it's title: Standard Czech Dictionary...It's just driving me mad sometimes, that there's no interest for the language people really use.

[Axystos]

Well, I've been diligently continuing with Czech since my last question and now I'd like to ask you something again.

Personal pronouns: there are two versions for the accusative of 'já': mne and mě, and for the dative: mně and mi. I learned that you should pronounce mě as 'mnje' (correct?). In that case, is there a difference in pronunciation between the unstressed accusative mě and the stressed dative mně, since that seems to be 'mnje' as well?

Thanks.

[rotzi]

Hi Axystos,

I learned that you should pronounce mě as 'mnje' (correct?).

That's correct. And not only as the accusative of "já", but anywhere you encounter the combination "mě", it is pronounced "mnje".

In that case, is there a difference in pronunciation between the unstressed accusative mě and the stressed dative mně, since that seems to be 'mnje' as well?

There is no difference in pronunciation.

dominik

[Axystos]

Thanks, rotzi, for your answer.


@Daniel: Are we talking about the same book? I'm using TY Czech to learn the language, and I'm going through the book like a warm knife through butter. Although I admit that the fact that I know russian has helped me a lot.

(Mluvíme o stejné knize? Já používám TY Czech, abych se učil jazyk, a řezám skrz knihu jako teplý nůž skrz máslo. Ačkoli přiznávám, že fakt, že vím ruštinu, mi velmi pomohl.)

[Pato]

Hi, I would like to make some correction:

Dobrý den! Jsem velmi dobře dnes a jsem rád, že jsem tady. Smím se vám představit? OK, jmenuji se Daniel a pocházím původně z Irska ale jsem v Skotske. Omlouvám se, a mluvím jenom anglicky – nemluvím český.

Jsem velmi dobře dnes: "Dnes se mám velmi dobře" One says "mít se dobře/špatně". I would put "dnes" first, perhaps because it is the information that has less importance and new and most important informations tend to be on the right.

jsem v Skotské: "Jsem ve Skotsku." skotský is an adjective, "Scotland" is Skotsko. And it is "ve" because it is better to pronounce before two consonants.

nemluvím český: "nemluvím česky" - "český" is an adjective, "česky" is an adverbe.

...........

Well, I'm pleasured that there are people in the world that want to to speak Czech. Now I have to write my thesis, but I hope I could help more later, when I finish it...

[Pato]

jsem v Skotské: "Jsem ve Skotsku." skotský is an adjective, "Scotland" is Skotsko. And it is "ve" because it is better to pronounce before two consonants.

Just a precision: it is not ever "ve" before two consonants, e.g. before "pr" it is just "v": "v Praze". I think this is in the case of consonant groups where the second one is "r" or "l".
The same is for all prepositions that have two forms: "s/se, z/ze, v/ve, k/ke".

[mssccb84]

I've recently decided to take up Czech. I'm finding pronunciation to be pretty easy; however, I'm having a hard time with the letter "ř". I know a lot of non-native Czech speakers/learners have a hard time with this sound. I even heard some native speakers can't make this sound. Can anyone help me learn to make this sound, or know of a sound file or something where I can clearly hear this sound? Or, can I just pronounce it as an "r" or "ž" and still be understood? Thanks a lot for any help! Oh, and if this has already been asked here before, I'm sorry.