Czech discussion group

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Czech discussion group

Postby Fenek » 2004-12-15, 20:13

Kangoo asked me to found a Czech topic in the VSL, so here it is 8)

(personally, I can't speak Czech and I don't learn Czech, so don't expect me to be a tutor)
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Kangoo » 2004-12-15, 20:21

Hello, this is for everybody who wants to learn Czech and to exchange language difficulties (there are enough in Czech) :-))

So how do I say half past one?

Pul jedne
Pul druhe
Pul treti
Pul ctvrti
.
.

Is that right?
"You can´t teach an old dog new tricks" :-)

"Das Fussballspiel wird erschwert durch die Anwesenheit des Gegners"

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Postby Fenek » 2004-12-15, 20:32

According to my Polish-Czech phrasebook, Je půl dvanácté means it's half past eleven.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Kangoo » 2004-12-15, 21:34

That´s it

Je půl jedné
je půl druhe
je půl tretí
je půl ctrvté
je půl páté
je půl séste
je půl sedmé
je půl osmé
je půl deváté
je půl desáté
je půl jedennasté
je půl dvanáste
"You can´t teach an old dog new tricks" :-)



"Das Fussballspiel wird erschwert durch die Anwesenheit des Gegners"

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Postby Guillem » 2004-12-15, 23:08

Oh! It's great to find a language corner devoted to Czech :) I'm not still a learner of it, but I like this language, and I'm not going to lose the chance to learn some. I have a book in Spanish called ¿Quiere usted hablar checo? / Chcete mluvit česky?, which I think is very good... despite the fact I haven't used it yet :P

Anyway, people, let's see if I get some courage to start learning it.

Na shledanou!

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Postby Kangoo » 2004-12-16, 19:46

Where do you want to start at? Where do i get the strange signs like the strange c and s? :-)
"You can´t teach an old dog new tricks" :-)



"Das Fussballspiel wird erschwert durch die Anwesenheit des Gegners"

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Postby Car » 2004-12-16, 21:32

The best way is to install a Czech keyboard. You can even use QWERTZ layout as in German which also lets you type the special letters of the other "Eastern European" languages.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-12-17, 3:06

For those who don't know it, here's the link to an excelent* Czech grammar:

http://www.seelrc.org:8080/grammar/mainframe.jsp?nLanguageID=2

It's a .PDF file that can also be downloaded for offline browsing.

* Unless a native speaker can come up with a different opinion on it.
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Postby Guillem » 2004-12-17, 15:19

Děkuju / obrigado, Psi-Lord! :)

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Postby Kangoo » 2004-12-21, 13:05

Děkuju :-))

Tenma where do you want do start at?
"You can´t teach an old dog new tricks" :-)



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Postby Guillem » 2004-12-21, 16:52

Kangoo wrote:Děkuju :-))

Tenma where do you want do start at?


:oops: I have zero knowledge, Kangoo. So I should start right from the beginning, I guess...

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Postby Kangoo » 2004-12-26, 13:33

Okay, so I will write something for you you could learn in the beginning. The very easy things I can learn you and revise it :-)
"You can´t teach an old dog new tricks" :-)



"Das Fussballspiel wird erschwert durch die Anwesenheit des Gegners"

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Postby Lada » 2004-12-29, 12:14

Ahoj přátelé!
Jak se máte? :wink:

i have some questions...but i guess only native speaker can answer some of them, and i dont see native czech speakers... :( so my questions:

1. what is the difference between rudý a červený, why we say Rudé náměstí ale červené víno? both words mean "red".

2. how to make negative sentences in past? to which part of verb should i put NE? for example:

byla jsem doma

nebyla jsem doma (a)nebo byla nejsem doma?

3. also i can´t understand the difference between anebo and nebo, are they just synonims?

Thanks in advance.
Děkuji.

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Postby Majka » 2005-01-12, 21:42

Ahoj!

It's wonderful there's someone learning Czech!
I'd like to help you with all of your questions, I have just a small problem: I'm in Denmark and can't install a Czech keyboard (and I have some trouble speaking English, it's become a curious mixture of Danish and English)

Anyway, there're some answers to Lada's questions:

Lada wrote:1. what is the difference between rudý a červený, why we say Rudé náměstí ale červené víno? both words mean "red".


cerveny is the basic word, rudy is usually used only in certain expressions like Rudá armáda (The Red Army), rude ruze (red roses)

Lada wrote:2. how to make negative sentences in past? to which part of verb should i put NE? for example:

byla jsem doma

nebyla jsem doma (a)nebo byla nejsem doma?


The first way is correct.

Lada wrote:3. also i can´t understand the difference between anebo and nebo, are they just synonims?


Anebo is said to be stronger, they're used equally in everyday language, though. To avoid difficulties in interpunction, it's easier to use nebo (without a comma)

Hope it'll help you

Majka

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Postby Lada » 2005-01-16, 12:08

Pěkně děkuji Majka! :D

Mám ještě jedná otázka. (sorry my vocabulary is still limited) in my book, it is said that letter J isnt pronounced in such words like jdu, jdeš, jsem, jsi, etc, does this rule applies to other words with J at the begining, like jméno, for example?

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Postby Mara » 2005-01-16, 20:30

Lada wrote:Pěkně děkuji Majka! :D

Mám ještě jedná otázka. (sorry my vocabulary is still limited) in my book, it is said that letter J isnt pronounced in such words like jdu, jdeš, jsem, jsi, etc, does this rule applies to other words with J at the begining, like jméno, for example?


I hope you won't mind if I answer your question instead of Majka. :wink:

The thing is that your book refers to a colloquial pronunciation of these words. It usually applies to words beginning with a "j" and a following consonant. So, jméno would be colloquially pronounced [me:no]. However, I suggest you pronounce it properly with "j" as this is the correct way. Also, you would have to use the colloquial pronounciation consistently so as not to sound funny when saying [du] or [sem] instead of [jdu] or [jsem] but using the correct pronounciation in other words.

P.S.: Your sentence in Czech should be declined - Mám ještě jednu otázku. Also, in Czech, we still use a case called vocative for addressing people. So, you should say "Majko!".
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Postby Lada » 2005-01-17, 15:20

Děkuji Maro! :wink:

Mara wrote:However, I suggest you pronounce it properly with "j" as this is the correct way. Also, you would have to use the colloquial pronounciation consistently so as not to sound funny when saying [du] or [sem] instead of [jdu] or [jsem] but using the correct pronounciation in other words.

so as far as i understood i would sound funny saying méno? but i pronounced it in this way and all other words also :) but now of course i wont give any occasion to czechs for amusement :wink:
P.S.: Your sentence in Czech should be declined - Mám ještě jednu otázku.

ano znám to, russian language even uses the same endings, i guess it was bad influence of english :?

ještě jedná otázka jestli možno :) if i forget to pronounce long vowels, will it spoil badly my pronounciation?

i made some exersices, they are rather primitive, but anyway i had some problems, prosím, check them :)

6. Nebyl jsem v Karlových Varech, byl jsem v Praze. Byla jsem v Tatrach. Nebyl, byl jsem v kino. Mám u doma sad. Irena přijede v lednu do Prahy. Honza půjde s námi na koncert. Matka je byla u nás letos. Ne, hlava nebolí. Umím dobře anglicky :)

Letos pojdeme do Prahy. Přijdeme k vám letos. V sobotu jste byli v Praze. Pozítří půjdeme do kina. Zde Vlasta umí italsky. Přinesli jsme vám jablka.

7. Jsem dnes doma. Byli jsme dnes doma. Dejte nám cigarety. Dej mu tabák. To není moje matka, to je moje teta.

Bolí Vlasty hlava?
ale
Vlastu bolí hlava

Co ji bolí? to je spávně?
Sestra není doma.

Jan není zde.
ale
Jan není tady???

what is the difference beween zde a tady?

8. Kdy k nám přijede? Půjdeš na koncert anebo v kino? Co ho bolí? Co jsi nám přines? Máš
cigarety? Kde je hotel Jalta? Máš telefon?

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Postby Mara » 2005-01-18, 5:03

Lada wrote:Děkuji Maro! :wink:

Mara wrote:However, I suggest you pronounce it properly with "j" as this is the correct way. Also, you would have to use the colloquial pronounciation consistently so as not to sound funny when saying [du] or [sem] instead of [jdu] or [jsem] but using the correct pronounciation in other words.

so as far as i understood i would sound funny saying méno?


No, that's not what I meant. Either use colloquial pronunciation in all words (where is one possible), or in none. For example, a sentence "Jdu do druhého patra." sounds in colloquial pronunciation as "[Du do druhýho patra.]". Mixing colloquial [du] with correct [druhého patra] would sound funny.

ještě jedná otázka jestli možno :) if i forget to pronounce long vowels, will it spoil badly my pronounciation?


jedna not [s]jedná[/s]; jedná means he/she acts, conducts him/herself. Maybe here is your answer. :wink: Actually, some Czech words are distinguished only by the length of their vowels. (E.g., dráha vs. drahá. Dráha = track, trail, course; drahá = expensive, dear (feminine form). And there are others.) However, most of the time the length of the vowel will not "spoil" your pronunciation.

And one more thing. My nickname is spelled (and pronounced) with the first A long: Mára. :wink:
I am always sorry when any language is lost, because languages are the pedigree of nations.

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Postby Mara » 2005-01-18, 5:43

Lada wrote:i made some exersices, they are rather primitive, but anyway i had some problems, prosím, check them :)

Here we go:

6. Nebyl jsem v Karlových Varech, byl jsem v Praze.
Correct, assuming you wanted to use the masculine form.
Byla jsem v Tatrach.
Tatrách
Nebyl, byl jsem v kino.
v kině
Mám u doma sad.
u domu
Irena přijede v lednu do Prahy.
Correct.
Honza půjde s námi na koncert.
Correct, although I would rather say "Honza s námi půjde..."
Matka je byla u nás letos.
Incorrect verb form. Use either the present tense je or the past tense byla. In the past tense, the third person in both singular and plural do not use the help verb být. Also, switch the word order. Depending on what you want to stress in the sentence, you can say
Matka u nás byla letos. = The mother visited us this year, not the last year.
Matka byla letos u nás. = This year, the mother was with us, not with you.
Letos u nás byla matka. = This year the mother visited us, not the father (or anybody else).
Ne, hlava nebolí.
Maybe add whose head does not hurt: Ne, hlava nebolí.
Umím dobře anglicky.
Correct.
Letos pojdeme do Prahy.
pojedeme
Přijdeme k vám letos.
Correct, although you can switch the word order again depending on which part of the sentence you want to stress.
V sobotu jste byli v Praze.
Correct.
Pozítří půjdeme do kina.
Correct.
Zde Vlasta umí italsky.
I don't understand why you used "zde". Vlasta umí italsky is perfectly correct.
Přinesli jsme vám jablka.
Correct.

7. Jsem dnes doma. Byli jsme dnes doma. Dejte nám cigarety. Dej mu tabák. To není moje matka, to je moje teta.
All correct.

Bolí Vlasty hlava?
ale
Vlastu bolí hlava
It should be Vlastu in the question. Otherwise correct.

Co ji bolí?
Correct.
Sestra není doma.
Correct.

Jan není zde.
ale
Jan není tady???

what is the difference beween zde a tady?
There is no difference. Zde and tady are synonyms. Tady is used more often. Also, in a neutral sentence (where you do not stress certain part of it), the word order should be Jan tady//zde není.

8. Kdy k nám přijede?
Correct.
Půjdeš na koncert anebo v kino?
do kina
Co ho bolí?
Correct.
Co jsi nám přines?
přinesl
Máš cigarety? Kde je hotel Jalta? Máš telefon?
All correct.

Well, I'm impressed! Good job! Výborně! Z jaké knihy se učíš?
I am always sorry when any language is lost, because languages are the pedigree of nations.

-- Samuel Johnson, in: The Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides by James Boswell (1785)

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Postby Lada » 2005-01-18, 12:37

Mara wrote:"Jdu do druhého patra." sounds in colloquial pronunciation as "[Du do druhýho patra.]". Mixing colloquial [du] with correct [druhého patra] would sound funny.

wow, i didnt know that druhého can be pronounced in the other way...any other colloqialisms? but i suppose it´s better to speak the right language anyway and for everyone :wink:

(E.g., dráha vs. drahá. Dráha = track, trail, course; drahá = expensive, dear (feminine form). And there are others.) However, most of the time the length of the vowel will not "spoil" your pronunciation.

the last sentence cheered me up :) but of course exeptions should be remembered...
My nickname is spelled (and pronounced) with the first A long: Mára. :wink:

dobře Máro, zapamatovuji si :) ale co tvoje jméno značí? all i know is that Mara was a goddess of death in slavic mythology :wink:

Also, switch the word order. Depending on what you want to stress in the sentence, you can say
Matka u nás byla letos. = The mother visited us this year, not the last year.
Matka byla letos u nás. = This year, the mother was with us, not with you.
Letos u nás byla matka. = This year the mother visited us, not the father (or anybody else).

aha so if i want to underline something i should put it at the end of the sentence, does it work always? but does intonation play a role as well? Can i use the same word order, but with help of voice mark several words, or is only word order important?

Well, I'm impressed! Good job! Výborně! Z jaké knihy se učíš?

pěkně děkuji but dont forget that i´m native slavic speaker :wink: if i were non slavic speaker, that would be really good job, these exersices were in 3d lesson,(primitive, but i´ve made some mistakes :( )
Kniha se zve Čeština, but i doubt that you know it as it is for russian speakers :wink:

Thank you once more for all corrections, i ll try to continue making exercises :)


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