Difference between Ć and Č

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goblin0612
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby goblin0612 » 2016-04-03, 15:32

kibo wrote:Yeah, I can understand that it could be a difficulty for learners, it's hard even for some native speakers, but I don't see how to teach you the difference. I'm afraid I don't know how youtube can help here.

However, I have recorded some words in which č and ć alternate. The last four words are the only two minimal pairs I could think of. No wonder it represents a difficulty. ;)

The words are: čovek, ćorav, čekam, ćevap, čiča, ćilim, čar, ćar, spavačica, spavaćica

ch-cj.mp3


The selected attachment does not exist anymore. What a pity.

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cHr0mChIk
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2016-04-07, 23:52

Actually, although they might sound as similar sounds at first glance, they are easily distinguishable. While "Č" is "palato-alveolar"; "Ć" is "alveolo-palatal".

English also has both sounds, and they can be represented with "ch" or "t".

Č = chips ; trick
Ć = chew ; tune

Same goes with Dž and Đ; the voiced pairs of the above; in English, they can be represented with "j" or "d"

Dž = John
Đ = jew ; dew

Now, yes, different regional pronunciations exist: in standard Croatian and Bosnian, "Č" and "Dž" are "palato-alveolar"; and "Ć" and "Đ", although alveolo-palatal, are by many pronounced indistinguishable from "Č" and "Dž", therefore, palato-alveolar

While, in standard Serbian, "Ć" and "Đ" are clear "alveolo-palatal" sounds, while "Č" and "Dž" are more of retroflex sounds. However, still... this can vary.

Here you can hear the audio of all these sounds:

Ć = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Đ = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Palato-alveolar Č = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Palato-alveolar Dž = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Retroflex Č = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg
Retroflex Dž = https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ricate.ogg

Hopefully, this will help to, once and for all, solve this mystery :D
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

vijayjohn
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-24, 20:05

Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

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linguoboy
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-24, 21:36

vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

Isn't this typical of Kajkavian?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

vijayjohn
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-02-24, 22:58

linguoboy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?

Isn't this typical of Kajkavian?

I had no idea until I took a look at Wikipedia just now and saw "Hočeš kaj ti povedam?"

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cHr0mChIk
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Re: Difference between Ć and Č

Postby cHr0mChIk » 2017-03-01, 7:12

vijayjohn wrote:Aren't there some speakers of Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian who don't pronounce ć and č differently anymore?


Yes. That's exactly what I've wrote in my post:

cHr0mChIk wrote:Now, yes, different regional pronunciations exist: in standard Croatian and Bosnian, "Č" and "Dž" are "palato-alveolar"; and "Ć" and "Đ", although alveolo-palatal, are by many pronounced indistinguishable from "Č" and "Dž", therefore, palato-alveolar
وَقَالُوا لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلَّا مَن كَانَ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ ۗ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ


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