Difference between "svoj" and "njegov"

Moderator: kibo

remil
Posts: 5
Joined: 2005-12-22, 19:08
Real Name: Rene
Gender: male
Location: none

Difference between "svoj" and "njegov"

Postby remil » 2006-03-06, 14:11

Can somebody tell me the difference between svoj/svoja/svoje and njegov/njegova/njegova ?

Hvala!

User avatar
duko
Posts: 692
Joined: 2002-06-21, 18:07
Real Name: Radu Ciolac
Gender: male
Location: München
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Postby duko » 2006-03-06, 14:26

Interesting question. I'll be shooting in the dark until someone knowledgeable clears it up:

njegov = his (both possessor and object in masculine gender)
svoj = own

njegov grad = his city
svoj grad = [your] own city

edit: I think you also use "svoj" when the subject of the sentence is also the possessor for the sentences object, as in
He loves his job.
On voli svoj grad.

whereas if the subject is someone/something else than the possessor, you use njegov

This is his city.
Ovo je njegov grad.
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

remil
Posts: 5
Joined: 2005-12-22, 19:08
Real Name: Rene
Gender: male
Location: none

Postby remil » 2006-03-06, 15:38

Hmmm... I'm sorry, but I can't follow your argumentation. Maybe you can explain it to me again with the following 2 examples:

"On ceka svoje prijatelje i prijatelice."
"Njegov prijatelj Josip ima trideset godina."

Hvala, Rene

User avatar
Oleksij
Posts: 4757
Joined: 2005-06-28, 16:46
Real Name: Олексій Мірошниченко
Gender: male
Location: Kyiv
Country: UA Ukraine (Україна)
Contact:

Postby Oleksij » 2006-03-06, 17:10

Hmmm... I'm sorry, but I can't follow your argumentation. Maybe you can explain it to me again with the following 2 examples:

"On ceka svoje prijatelje i prijatelice."
"Njegov prijatelj Josip ima trideset godina."

Hvala, Rene

I'll try to explain. In the cases above both "svoj" and "njegov" means "his". But in the first sentence "svoj" is used, because there is already one personal pronoun- "on". And if you say "on čeka njegov prijatelje" it will sound wrong.

So, you can't use personal pronounce twice. :wink:
Moja ulica murem podzielona - świeci neonami prawa strona, lewa strona cała wygaszona, zza zasłony obserwuję obie strony.
My Youtube Channel
Last.fm

User avatar
duko
Posts: 692
Joined: 2002-06-21, 18:07
Real Name: Radu Ciolac
Gender: male
Location: München
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Postby duko » 2006-03-06, 17:27

I think I'm getting it

I'm no linguist, but I'll try to explain it again, based on gigant's clarifying post.

"on" and "njegov" are actually the same word, namely the third pers. sing. pronoun (English "he").
They only differ in case. "On" is the nominative case avatar, and "njegov" is the genitive case.

Assuming that "he" is some guy named Petar, we could replace on&njegov with the real name in nominative/genitive cases: Petar and Petrov

"Petar ceka svoje prijatelje i prijatelice."
"Petrov prijatelj Josip ima trideset godina."

"svoje" is probably not a personal pronoun. Don't ask me what it is, I don't know :oops:
You cannot replace it with a persons name,
"Petar ceka Petrove prijatelje i prijatelice."
would sound silly. Prolly the rule is (as gigant26 pointed out) that you cannot use a personal pronoun twice in a sentence [for the same person].
Confusing enough? :D
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

remil
Posts: 5
Joined: 2005-12-22, 19:08
Real Name: Rene
Gender: male
Location: none

Postby remil » 2006-03-06, 17:43

Yes, confusing enought, but I think I understand now Thank you! :D

User avatar
kibo
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 6942
Joined: 2003-12-16, 18:35
Gender: male
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Postby kibo » 2006-03-06, 18:14

remil wrote:Hmmm... I'm sorry, but I can't follow your argumentation. Maybe you can explain it to me again with the following 2 examples:

"On čeka svoje prijatelje i prijateljice."
"Njegov prijatelj Josip ima trideset godina."

Hvala, Rene


Ok, I'll try to explain.

svoj/svoja/svoje is a reflexive possessive pronoun for every person (not just the 3rd one). It can basically mean "my, your, his, her, our, their". It is used only when the possessor is referred in the same clause and has a grammatical relation with the possessees (I don't have a better word for it). For example:

On čeka svoje prijatelje = He's waiting for his friends
Ja čekam svoje prijatelje = I'm waiting for my friends
Vi čekate svoje prijatelje = You (pl.) are waiting for your friends.

In all of these sentences the person who "possesses" the friends (on, ja, vi) is shown as a part of the clause and has a grammatical relation with the friends (and that relation is expressed through the predicate - the verb "to wait"), that's why you must use "svoj".

It doesn't need to be a pronoun. You can put "Petar čeka svoje prijatelje". Or even just "Čeka svoje prijatelje." (since in Serbo-Croatian personal pronouns aren't always obligatory) The possessor just needs to be sematically present.

Now you may be wondering why you can't say "Ja čekam moje prijatelje", "Ti čekaš tvoje prijatelje", "On čeka njegove prijatelje". In the first and second person, you can, but prescriptivists will say that it's incorrect or stylistically wrong, or whatever, even though you'll hear a bunch of people using it.

But in the third case, it's different, because it's ambigious. "On čeka svoje prijatelje" and "On čeka njegove prijatelje" are both completely correct sentences but they have a completelly different meaning. In English they would both mean "He's waiting for his friends", but in the second sentance he and his aren't the same person. I'll introduce names so it would be easier to understand

On čeka svoje prijatelje = Peter is waiting for Peter's friends
On čeka njegove prijatelje = Peter is waiting for John's friends. Peter is in the clause, but he's not the possesor, John is the possessor but he's not there.

In "Njegov prijatelj Josip ima trideset godina" the possessor isn't even mentioned, he has no grammatical connection to Josip, so you have to use "njegov".

Ouch! That was complicated :D

If anything (else) is unclear, just ask.
Goals:
 (es) ➜ C1 (DELE)
 (de) ➜ B2 (Goethe-Zertifikat) / C1
 (sv) ➜ B1/B2

User avatar
deni
Posts: 32
Joined: 2007-09-18, 16:53
Gender: male
Location: Ontario
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

sebe

Postby deni » 2007-10-01, 1:39

Is the word 'sebe' used in a similar way?

SamoSamNina
Posts: 116
Joined: 2007-08-01, 19:52
Real Name: Nina
Gender: female
Location: Seattle
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: sebe

Postby SamoSamNina » 2007-10-03, 2:02

deni wrote:Is the word 'sebe' used in a similar way?


In a manner. 'Sebe' does refer to 'self', and also changes depending on the grammatical case. So -

- Za sebe (za + accusative case) - "for one's self"
- Razgovarao je o sebi - "He conversed about himself."

The shorter form of 'se' denotes a reflexive. For example, the verb 'zvati' can simply mean 'to call'. However, 'zvati se' is "to be called", such as to be named.

Examples -

~ "Ej, ja cu te zvati!" - "Hey, I'll call you!"
~ "Zovem se Dario." - "I am called Dario."

Sorry in advance if I confuse anyone... still trying to figure this language out enough to understand it myself, aside from being able to explain it :P

Slovenian Austrian
Posts: 1
Joined: 2016-01-17, 8:42

Re: Difference between "svoj" and "njegov"

Postby Slovenian Austrian » 2016-01-17, 8:57

I am austrian with slovenian roots. What Duko has written is correct.I try to explain it more explicit. Svoj is an ,, universal pronoun" , which can be used in every case (but not in the nominative ) and replace every other possessive pronoun under specific conditions in the sentence. Like Duko wrote: Subject and owner must be the same the person.
Here a few examples:
Iščem svojega avto. I search my car.
(I am subject and owner)
Luka išče svojega ključ. Luka searches his key.
(He is subject and owner)
To je svoj ključ. This is ???? key
(Here the owner is questionable, you have to use njegov!!)


Return to “Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (Bosanski/Hrvatski/Српски)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest