German

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Saaropean
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Postby Saaropean » 2005-02-26, 20:38

The word "school" comes from Greek (where it's spelled with sigma-chi, thus SCH).

And other Englisch words with SCH usually come from Greek (schedule), German (schnitzel) or Yiddish (schmaltz).

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Postby JackFrost » 2005-02-27, 1:55

Geist wrote:Are your sure it doesn't come from the German Schule?

How can it be, Old English predates Modern German. :roll:
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Lauura
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Postby Lauura » 2005-02-27, 11:25

Genau, Le Serpent Rouge!
I used to believe German sounded "harsh" before I had any contact with it, but now I know it's sweet and, as you say, it can be VERY sexy. I'm actually trying to learn it, because my boyfriend is German, and even though we use English to communicate, we're both trying to learn each other's first language (mine is Spanish). It's a hell of an adventure, and we both enjoy very very much. :D

PS: Here's a very funny text by Mark Twain that I thought many of you might enjoy.
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html
The world is made -mainly- of things that I haven't learnt yet.

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Kubi
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Postby Kubi » 2005-02-28, 8:17

Niniel wrote:
There are very few people who manage to speak foreign languages really accent-free. Especially regarding English I must say that most Germans have a quite heavy accent speaking it

You're excluding yourself here, aren't you?

Well, my accent is less heavy than that of many others I've heard, but I'm still far from speaking like a native.

But I didn't just say that out of my own opinion. I've been having chats with english people and other foreign people quite often, and the English say that nearly all Germans (not bavarian and saxonies though) dont have a heavy accent .

Interesting, because my experience is just the contrary. Most British and American people I spoke to can quite easily discover Germans who are speaking English.

And if talking to a frenchman or so hell say sth like "so, you like many germans dont have such a heavy accent" or so. But of course there are different english accents too, so there is no common english.

I wouldn't take the statements of a French as reference in this case. Sorry to the French, but from my experience their accent is at least as strong as ours, if not worse.

In most cases I can easily detect both Germans and French in an English conversation, though I'm no native speaker.

And I'll have to add that I've been talking so much to natives the last year, that I dont just sound like someone who has been taught at school by a german teacher.

That's not only a matter of accent but also of fluency and grammar. You certainly speak better than someone with "only" school English, but that doesn't make you accent-free. I work for an American company and speak English nearly every day, but I still hear my own accent though it's become somewhat less clear.

So I hear the differences between my english and that of other germans who arent really interested in it.

As I said, so do I. But I'm also aware that there's still a difference between my pronunciation and that of a native speaker.

But when I met a native for the first time I asked if my accent was strong and she said NO.

Can you rely on her having been honest, or was she perhaps only polite? I've made the experiance often enough that native speakers tend to tell foreigners how good they speak already even if that's not the case...
Je défendrai mes opinions jusqu'à ma mort, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez défendre les vôtres. - Voltaire

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Postby elgrande (not logged in) » 2005-03-01, 0:10

Niniel wrote:Of course here in my area, which is north west, we are talking standard German, and the english pronunciation is actually really good, as far as I can tell, but youll just have to goi to Bavaria or saxony, and the accent will be fatally strong.


This is interesting. I never thought their accent would be worse in English than that of speakers of Standard German. What do you think makes them sound worse than us? I would have thought that I hear Bavarian accents in English more easily and more strongly than Standard German accents because Bavarian sounds more unusual to me, but I would have thought that to a native speaker of English we'd sound equally good/bad. But come to think of it, Bavarian t, k and p often aren't aspirated, I think, and perhaps this sounds weirder in English than it does in German. Any other chracteristic features?

Anyway, I think most speakers of Standard German don't pronounce English very well. Very many would pronounce "bat" and "bet" the same or "lived" and "lift" or "lies" and "lice" or even "of" and "off" and probably very many of those don't even know these words are pronounced differently.

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Postby elgrande (not logged in) » 2005-03-01, 0:17

Oh, and can you explain how well those people were familiar with German accents? It bemuses me that native speakers of English would be able to tell apart different German accents so easily. I mean all French accents and all Spanish accents in German sound the same to me and at the very beginning, I couldn't even distinguish American from British English.

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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-03-01, 2:19

I know I'm only able to distinguish the stronger accents from Berlin and Bavaria. They're generally regarded as the stronger accents, especially Bavarian. But other than that, I don't have enough experience with Germans to be able to tell.
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Niniel

Postby Niniel » 2005-03-01, 17:46

Sorry, I reread my post, and now I see how it must have sounded.
Sorry, Kubi, I know of course that I'm neither accent free nor perfect in English (not at all). But I know how to pronounce the words correctly not like many Germans.

Anyway, I think most speakers of Standard German don't pronounce English very well. Very many would pronounce "bat" and "bet" the same or "lived" and "lift" or "lies" and "lice" or even "of" and "off" and probably very many of those don't even know these words are pronounced differently


That's exactly what I meant, you can hear many German people talking like that. And I am aware that there are differences.
I didn't want to sound as arrogant as I did, I can assure you!

Thanks

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Postby Rounin » 2005-03-05, 2:43

Hahaa!

I think German is very beautiful when spoken softly. I suppose these sentiments are really remnants from WW2 or related to the somewhat unfamiliar "ch" which can sound like a throat disease when pronounced in just the right way. :lol:

RabidIrishGuy*from USA

just an opinion

Postby RabidIrishGuy*from USA » 2005-04-01, 18:08

I have dabbled in German, Spanish, Irish and others, and I would say alot of opinions are based soley on cultural sentiment. I mena, 60 years ago I had two great-uncles fighting Germans. I don't have a prejudice agaist the people, but the language is another story. The first German I ever heard was in war documentaries that included Hitler's speeches. Needless to say, he has always been the first person that pops into my head when I hear "german". Rammstein also gives a little more ammo for those who say German is harsh.
In short, it's all according to context. Regretebly, a lot of opinions are based on first-time exposure.
As for German pronunciation of English, at some points it is the WORST accent. It sounds very pitchy, and is difficult to understan. On the other hand, one time I met a person, and talked to her for ten minutes without realizing she was German. When she told me, I was totally surprised.

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Postby Sido » 2005-04-02, 8:07

Everything has already been said and Niniel probably does not need to be cheered up anymore.
I just want to say
a/ That I feel sorry for Mark Twain and JRR Tolkien, at least if they really believe in what they wrote.
b/ I also understand that around 1945 there was a general repulsion from the german language, just like I guess, palestinian children now find the hebrew language, soft as it may be, repulsing.
c/ I like the sound of german. For example the narrator's voice in 'Good Bye Lenin' (not Daniel Brühl ?) or of Alex's father are so soft and soothing ("apaisant")
Dépêchons nous d'en rire avant que d'en pleurer!

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Postby nickybol » 2005-04-02, 18:27

Saaropean wrote:The word "school" comes from Greek (where it's spelled with sigma-chi, thus SCH).

And other Englisch words with SCH usually come from Greek (schedule), German (schnitzel) or Yiddish (schmaltz).

yes and the ironic thing is that the greek word means free-time. But that has a deeper meaning, but I don`t think you are waiting for that meaning ;)

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Postby Stan » 2005-04-02, 19:45

I think the reason people don't like German that well is not because of the way it sounds but because of the history of the main nation that spoke it, Germany. Generally when someone says the word "German" in some people's minds an automatic image of a fascist Nazi SS officer screaming harshly might pop up. But the Germany of today is very different from the Germany of that time.

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Postby Nukalurk » 2005-04-02, 20:44

Most Germans are anti-militaristic, not many people like to serve in the army etc.

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Re: just an opinion

Postby bodhisatva » 2005-04-03, 10:39

RabidIrishGuy*from USA wrote:The first German I ever heard was in war documentaries that included Hitler's speeches. Needless to say, he has always been the first person that pops into my head when I hear "german".


Hitler spoke Austrian :)

RabidIrishGuy*from USA wrote:In short, it's all according to context. Regretebly, a lot of opinions are based on first-time exposure.
As for German pronunciation of English, at some points it is the WORST accent. It sounds very pitchy, and is difficult to understan.


Вот ыбаут рашын эксент? Ай финк джёман ван из зе мост компрехесибыл. Он зе контрэри, айриш эксент фром ю-эс-эй из вери дификулт ту андыстэнд.

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Re: just an opinion

Postby Saaropean » 2005-04-03, 10:50

bodhisatva wrote:
RabidIrishGuy*from USA wrote:The first German I ever heard was in war documentaries that included Hitler's speeches. Needless to say, he has always been the first person that pops into my head when I hear "german".


Hitler spoke Austrian :)

What is Austrian? A group of Bavarian dialects (thus belonging to the Upper German branch), except in Vorarlberg. Do you think Hitler spoke his native dialect when he addressed the German public? No way.
Or is "Austrian" the accent of Austrians when speaking German? There is no Austrian accent. There are several accents, depending on which Austrian region someone comes from.

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Postby Nukalurk » 2005-04-04, 6:21

But there is an accent typical for Austrians which differentiates them from Bavarians. However, Hitler was fascinated of German and the German culture, so I don't think he prefered his native dialect. ;)

бодисатва, зе Тексэн экцент ис мач море диффикулт ту андерстэнд. ;)

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Postby bodhisatva » 2005-04-04, 6:42

Amikeco wrote:бодисатва, зе Тексэн экцент ис мач море диффикулт ту андерстэнд. ;)


:lol:

rafs

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Postby rafs » 2005-04-14, 10:08

Just a joke, don´t take such judgements seriously. It is all relative. English has more vocabulary and German more grammar. But that is cause German has a core vocabulary that you can build from, and English borrows so many words.
English is softer generally than German, although in certain regions, namely Scotland, the North East it is harder. As English is the world language, German will be naturally compared and come out as sounding harder, but so what.

I am a native English speaker who finds advantages to both languages. If German sounded so bad why would English (noted with a softer pronunciation) borrow so many words. Zeitgeist, Kindergarden, Schadenfruede to name but a few. Writers in English often use German and the opinion is to sound more business like or intelligent, who knows. Many high profiel writzers use German in their texts.
In the north we use Gesundheit rather than bless you, if we do not want to sound religious.

As for sound I live in Saxony, which the rest of Germany slags for sounding bad but it is a soft pronunciation here. I do not think it is a sexy langauge but sound wise, beauty is always in the ear of the beholder. Always end of sth someone else said think I got that form American X. Be proud of who you are and where you come from.


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