Words with more than one correct pronunciation

[Saaropean]

My former teacher never corrected our [r], but that's because nobody but me cared about the pronunciation. I chatted a bit with the other teacher, she's got a near-native pronunciation and she told me she was taught at the university to pronounce a voiced uvular fricative, and to vocalize it after long vowels. Unfortunately, I didn't ask her if a voiced alveolar trill was allowed.

Interesting. To me, a uvular fricative sounds French, at least when it's at the beginning of a word. I'd use a uvular approximant there. So maybe I should have written [ʁ̞] instead of [ʁ].

In Hessian (a central German dialect), /r/ is dropped after a vowel, and /-er/ is pronounced [ɛ]. So "Sport" becomes [ʃpɔtʰ], "Mutter" becomes [ˈmʊdɛ].

I was told the German /a/ is somewhere between [a] and [ɐ], and /r/ in a sequence vowel-R-consonant is a short [ɐ]. That makes it kind of tough to transcribe /ar/ as in "hart". Is it [häɐ̯tʰ] or [hɐə̯tʰ]? I believe I pronounce both /a/ and /r/ [ɐ], though the length differs. But my /ar/ is clearly a diphthong, not a long vowel.

Talking about vowels: Many central and southern dialects don't use rounded front vowels. Examples:

• "schön" [ʃeːn]
• "früh" [fʁɪː] - [friː]
• "können" [ˈkʰɛnə] - [ˈkɛnɐ]
• "Schürze" [ʃɛɐ̯ts] - [ʃeɐ̯tsn̩]
• "Körper" [ˈkʰɛɐ̯bɐ] - [ˈkeɐ̯pɐ]
• "Häuser" [ˈhɐɪ̯zɐ]

But that is not acceptable Standard German. When speaking SG with an accent, those dialect users would use the rounded front vowels.

[uvulartrill]

Interesting. To me, a uvular fricative sounds French, at least when it's at the beginning of a word.

Maybe she just made a mistake of calling it a "fricative". I've heard her using both a fricative and an approximant.

In Hessian (a central German dialect), /r/ is dropped after a vowel, and /-er/ is pronounced [ɛ]. So "Sport" becomes [ʃpɔtʰ], "Mutter" becomes [ˈmʊdɛ].

That's very interesting.

I was told the German /a/ is somewhere between [a] and [ɐ], and /r/ in a sequence vowel-R-consonant is a short [ɐ]. That makes it kind of tough to transcribe /ar/ as in "hart". Is it [häɐ̯tʰ] or [hɐə̯tʰ]?

This vowel chart is from Duden Aussprachewörterbuch (edition 6, page 37):


I found it on John Wells's phonetic blog. It doesn't actually back up what you were told. Basing on this chart, I'd transcribe /ar/ as [äɜ̞] or [äɐ̝], if we're aiming for the narrowest transcription possible.

Talking about vowels: Many central and southern dialects don't use rounded front vowels.

That's so Polish

[Quetzalcoatl]

Interesting. To me, a uvular fricative sounds French, at least when it's at the beginning of a word.

Maybe she just made a mistake of calling it a "fricative". I've heard her using both a fricative and an approximant.

I was told the German /a/ is somewhere between [a] and [ɐ], and /r/ in a sequence vowel-R-consonant is a short [ɐ]. That makes it kind of tough to transcribe /ar/ as in "hart". Is it [häɐ̯tʰ] or [hɐə̯tʰ]?

This vowel chart is from Duden Aussprachewörterbuch (edition 6, page 37):


I found it on John Wells's phonetic blog. It doesn't actually back up what you were told. Basing on this chart, I'd transcribe /ar/ as [äɜ̞] or [äɐ̝], if we're aiming for the narrowest transcription possible.

Talking about vowels: Many central and southern dialects don't use rounded front vowels.

That's so Polish

alzɔ ɟi pɔlɛn ɟi iɕ kɛnɛ, ʂprɛɕɛn ɔ unt u umlawt imɛr als ɨ, tsum bajʂpil ɟi fɨgɛl, ɟi hɨgɛl... ɔkɛj mãɕɛ lɔjtɛ zagɛn awx higel

[uvulartrill]

Yeah, not many can actually pronounce them correctly. Not to mention getting the length and height right. The main obstacle is getting over the fact that there are sounds that are nothing like the ones we know from our native language. And then of course there's ridiculing those (in schools for example) who try to get the sounds right.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Yeah, not many can actually pronounce them correctly. Not to mention getting the length and height right. The main obstacle is getting over the fact that there are sounds that are nothing like the ones we know from our native language. And then of course there's ridiculing those (in schools for example) who try to get the sounds right.

Having a funny accent in a foreign language is just normal, my Polish pronunciation sounds weird as well (today I've uploaded a recording in the General language forum)

[uvulartrill]

Your recording sounds near-native. I would say that having a strong (or funny) accent in a foreign language is the norm, but that's because there's not enough education about sounds that aren't present in our native languages. That's the source of shocking statements like "Polish consonants are the only possible ones to be pronounced". I've heard this a few times.

[linguoboy]

I don't know which /r/ pronunciation is taught abroad, but I consider [ʁ/ɐ] (before/after a vowel) standard, [ʁ/ʁ], [r/ɐ] and [r/r] acceptable.

I would say that [ʁ]/[ɐ] is normative, but that all these variations are standard. Some, however, I would consider characteristic of certain registers. (Non-vocalic allophones in coda position, for instance, scream "singing pronunciation" to me.)

Devoicing of coda /r/ is definitely non-normative and nonstandard.

[Tobias]

In Standard German spoken by Swabians you can occasionally hear "König" with [k] in the end, but in my region I would attribute that to hypercorrection. Only further in the South they use it for real. Not sure about Bavarians.

Bavarian: kɶniʛ (if you want to speak standard german); Bavarian dialect don't need a g: "kɨ:ni

I don't know which /r/ pronunciation is taught abroad, but I consider [ʁ/ɐ] (before/after a vowel) standard, [ʁ/ʁ], [r/ɐ] and [r/r] acceptable.

I would say that [ʁ]/[ɐ] is normative, but that all these variations are standard. Some, however, I would consider characteristic of certain registers. (Non-vocalic allophones in coda position, for instance, scream "singing pronunciation" to me.)

Devoicing of coda /r/ is definitely non-normative and nonstandard.

It is like Saaropean wrote: durch das dorf -> you say: duach das doaf; you don't hear any kind of r.

[linguoboy]

It is like Saaropean wrote: durch das dorf -> you say: duach das doaf; you don't hear any kind of r.

This is actually a relatively recent development. I used to wonder why -a for -er was so common in dialect spellings, and the answer turns out to be that, when these conventions took root (mostly in the 19th or early 20th century), vocalisation of coda /r/ wasn't yet part of the spoken standard. So writing, say, oda for oder actually indicated a distinct pronunciation; nowadays, it's just eye dialect.