Basic Latvian ?

[Zorba]

I don't know if you've spent time in Riga before, but the Old Town (Vecriga) is almost like a tourist ghetto, with its cafes and bars full of English and other tourists. It has the advantage of being English-speaking and very beautiful architecture, but it really doesn't give you much of an insight into what proper Riga is like. It is also more expensive and often has large groups of drunk stag parties.

The usual bunch of ex-pats fill 'Dickens' on Grecnieku iela, the 'British' pub, as well as the three Irish bars in the centre of town and the McDonalds on Basteja bulvaris, by the Freedom Monument and Laima clock.

'Pulkvedim Neviens Neraksta' or 'No-one writes to the colonel' at Peldu 26/28 is a better bet to get a cheap meal or drinks in the evening. It often has a more local crowd.

There are two establishment that I used to frequent as an English teacher in Riga: 'Iguana' (http://www.iguana.lv/en/index.php) and 'Suns' on Elizabetes 83/85. Apart from being near my school, these places are mainly frequented by locals and serve up reliable food.

One chain of restaurants that serves up a good lunch is Lido. There's two good ones in the new town: on 74/76 Dzirnavas iela, one at 65 Elizabetes iela. Again, you'll find both Rigans and tourists in these restaurants. There's also the 'Big Lido' as the locals call it, a big American-style Restaurant-cum-Recreation Center out on Krasta Iela 76.

The Reval Hotel Latvija, also on Elizabetes iela, is the place for visiting businessmen, conferences etc. They have two nice bars, a more sedate one downstairs and a funky one 'Skyline Bar' up on the 26th floor. The views is spectacular during the day and very romantic at night. When Rigans are introducing foreigners to their city, this will normally take them first to a meal at the 'Big Lido', and then bring them here for a drink.

Stockmann is a lovely Finnish department store in the centre, and shares a brand new building with the Western-style cinema, Coca-Cola Plaza. Stockmann has a bright, airy cafe upstairs where you can linger over an omelette for breakfast on Sunday morning and watch the world go by.

Latvians tend to be rather shy people, so don't be too disheartened if you have a bit of trouble meeting anyone. The Russian population tend to be more outgoing.

[schmoo]

Sveiks ..

i am continuing to go through this website, but can someone clarify this please, using the description given by Vertaler as mu guide, any object put after the verb affected by the verb is in the ACC case...

so Jānis 'hits' meitenu (John hits the girl?)..

i dont know this verb yet so cant put that one in....

but it says on this website that if you add an indirect object to an active verb sentence they are in the DAT case...which would make it:

Jānis 'hits' meitenei

Am I to understand that if you add an indirect person its in DAT but any object or thing non-living (animals?) are in the ACC case ? which is right?


and this has appeared a few times in several places with no explanation, a number with an 'o' ending.... I've seen Pirmo and Cetrdesmito.. i've seen various endings for numbers to relate them to gender, number, etc but none have an 'o' ending..


and whats the difference between Latviski and Latviešu, in the dictionary both mean Latvian

liels paldies

[Zorba]

i am continuing to go through this website, but can someone clarify this please, using the description given by Vertaler as mu guide, any object put after the verb affected by the verb is in the ACC case...

so Jānis 'hits' meitenu (John hits the girl?)..

i dont know this verb yet so cant put that one in....

but it says on this website that if you add an indirect object to an active verb sentence they are in the DAT case...which would make it:

Jānis 'hits' meitenei

Am I to understand that if you add an indirect person its in DAT but any object or thing non-living (animals?) are in the ACC case ? which is right?

I think the problem is that you aren't quite clear about the difference between a direct and an indirect object. The former always requires the accusative case, the latter always requires the dative case.

In English:

He gave the book to Sarah.
'the book' is a direct object (because it is being 'given')
'Sarah' is an indirect object (because she is being affected by the action of 'giving', even though she herself is not being 'given')

If we change the word order, it doesn't matter: "he gave Sarah the book", 'Sarah' is still indirect, 'thee book' is still direct object.

Other times when we use the indirect object in English:
He told me a story. ("me" indirect, "story" direct)
She promised me the time of my life. ("me" indirect, "the time of my life" direct")
We wrote a long letter to granny. ("Granny" indirect, "a long letter" direct).
Mildred bought her daughter a cactus. ("cactus" indirect, "daughter" indirect)

In Latvian, we use the indirect object (and dative case) with some verbs where we can't use "to" in English.

For example, with zvaniit (to call or telephone), I think we use the dative case. So I think you would say like "Vins man zvanija", ("man" = dative, not "mani" accusative), literally in English "He telephoned to me". But you can see why this is dative in Latvian, because you aren't actually using the person you are calling as a telephone, so it is indirect.

But you won't have to worry about those kind of complexities in the mean time. The main thing is to be familiar with the more common verbs (give, write, buy, call etc.)

Pirmo and Cetrdesmito.. i've seen various endings for numbers to relate them to gender, number, etc but none have an 'o' ending..

These are adjectives (ordinal numerals, i.e. first, fortieth and so on) and therefore do not decline like the cardinal numbers (i.e. one, forty etc.).

and whats the difference between Latviski and Latviešu, in the dictionary both mean Latvian

'Latviski' is an adverb, like 'in Latvian'.

I think 'Latviešu' is a noun in genitive plural (like 'of the Latvians', but it is normally used an adjective. So we can talk about 'Latviešu valoda' = "The Latvian language" or more literally "The language of the Latvians".

But they essentially have the same meaning:

Vai tu runā latviski? (Do you speak Latvian?)
Vai tu runā latviešu valodu? (Rarer, "Do you speak the Latvian language, but possible)

[schmoo]

Liels paldies par palīdzību..

that has helped...

in a short statement or phrase when there is no Direct Object, with only Indirect Object and Noun is this correct:

Man vajag palīdzību ..

I need help..

Man in DATIVE form as the INDIRECT object, and palīdzība being a noun, has to agree with this INDIRECT object in both gender and case?

and this would be roughly translated as ' To/ For me, there is help..' ?


whats the best way to get to grips with verbs, is it to first learn which of the 3 groups they belong and to apply the correct endings, or to learn their basic endings so you know which group they belong to ? As i've not yet read any hard and fast rules about how to know which group they come from, take darāt and lasīt for example, i expected them to belong to group 1 as i read that to that group belonged all verbs which have one syllable after removal of any prefixes and the endings, but i know they are group 3 , I just dont know why...

Gaidišu atbildi...

[Zorba]

in a short statement or phrase when there is no Direct Object, with only Indirect Object and Noun is this correct:

Man vajag palīdzību ..

I need help..

Man in DATIVE form as the INDIRECT object, and palīdzība being a noun, has to agree with this INDIRECT object in both gender and case?

Not quite. I think "Man" is the indirect object (to me), hence in dative, and "palīdzību" is the direct object, hence in accusative. There is no subject in this sentence (or it is invisible, hence nothing is in nominative).

A loose English translation:

To me is required help.

whats the best way to get to grips with verbs, is it to first learn which of the 3 groups they belong and to apply the correct endings, or to learn their basic endings so you know which group they belong to ? As i've not yet read any hard and fast rules about how to know which group they come from, take darāt and lasīt for example, i expected them to belong to group 1 as i read that to that group belonged all verbs which have one syllable after removal of any prefixes and the endings, but i know they are group 3 , I just dont know why...

I think it is darīt and lasīt.

Different people learn languages in different ways. Some people believe that you can basically ignore grammar, and learn it through communication. So through listening and reading, you will pick up the forms that you need most often and learn to repeat them first.

This is a useful approach, and it will help a lot when you are actually in Latvia, but personally I'm rather old-fashioned in my language-learning, especially I'm learning through self-study. Personally, I would memorise all the main conjugations first. Learn by heart, like the old fashioned drills in school. Make yourself a big coloured chart, stick it up on your wall. Repeat them to yourself when you're in your car or at the gym or something. (And the same for nouns.) This will is a time-consuming process and a rather dull one, but it means that you will always be able to identify all the inflected endings when you see them.

As you learn new verbs, you can then learn what conjugation they take and know automatically which group they belong to. I can't remember offhand if there is any way to remember which verbs belong to which groups, but this information should be in your textbook.

[schmoo]

My spelling mistake, sorry darīt, not darāt..

The problem is where to compile the endings from..

This is the page i looked at which tabulates all the 3rd group verb endings, but as you can see nowhere in this table does it apply and 'a' ending to the 3rd common person present tense, as in lasa... so it's finding a reliable source for this..

http://www.ailab.lv/ai1/lgram-ww/iiiconj.htm

and this page gives examples of all the 1st conjugation verbs:

http://courses.washington.edu/latvian/g ... jVerbs.htm


it states:

augt* g/dz - to grow
aug (present)
auga (past)
augs (future)

but it doesnt say if these are the 3rd common person ending, etc, and this page:

http://www.ailab.lv/ai1/lgram-ww/iconj.htm

gives this:

augt (infinitive)
augu (present)
augu (past)

obviously different from the above, it doesnt state which 'person' these apply to.

Do you know of a better website, even one in latvian where the verb endings are clearly specified ?

liels paldies

[Zorba]

I don't know if you will find such a resource on the Internet, Latvian resources are fairly scarce. The books that I already mentioned are the only resources that you widely available in England.

When you are in Latvia, you can buy a "Pareizrakstība" book which is like a dictionary that has most of the main verbs conjugated for you. I'm afraid I can't suggest anything else.

[schmoo]

liels paldies

i will look for that book when i'm next there...

[Zorba]

If you'll be in Riga soon, you'll get a copy downstairs in Valters un Rapa opposite the Opera House, or else try Jana Rozes on K. Barona iela. There are various different pareizrakstības available (they are really designed as style guides for Latvian speakers) but I found one that has full conjugations for all the verbs.

[schmoo]

Labvakar..

I am just learning a few words and phrases that relate to the house/ apartment.

A phrase that is given:

Tā ir gazes plīts
(This is a gas stove)

I know the noun for gas is 'gaze', so in this phrase it has taken the Genitive singular form, is this a general rule for having 2 nouns together when the first one is used as a descriptive ? with the second one in Nominative case

making the plural:

Tās ir gažu plīti

But in this example, "Tas ir trauku skapis" ? Trauks in the Accusative singluar translating as a 'cupboard for dishes' ??


And are these phrases correct:

Vai tas ir jauni griesti ?

Is that a new ceiling ?

Man vajag nomainīt drošinātāju

I need to change a fuse

Vai drikstu apskatīt balkoni ?

May i see the balcony

Vai šis ir elektrīsta sildītājs ?

Is this an electric heater

I am hoping to go to Riga in early march to look at some apartments which is the reason i'm learning these..

Liels paldies...

[schmoo]

ignore that part:

"Tas ir trauku skapis"

it should read "Tie ir trauku skapis"

Those are 'dish' cupboards

which put trauks in the plural Genitive, meaning all the pairs of nouns are (GEN) + (NOM)

[エヴァルダス]

Zorba:
Vai tu runā latviski? (Do you speak Latvian?)
Vai tu runā latviešu valodu? (Rarer, "Do you speak the Latvian language, but possible)

To my knowledge, the latter case is not possible, that is, you cannot "speak a language" in Lettish, but you "speak in a language".

Vai tu runā latviešu valodā?
Kurā valodā tu runā?

Bet izteiciens «runāt valodā» man neskan dabiski.

[mak]

I know the noun for gas is 'gaze', so in this phrase it has taken the Genitive singular form, is this a general rule for having 2 nouns together when the first one is used as a descriptive ? with the second one in Nominative case

I think you could be right. What does your grammar book say?

Tā ir gāzes plīts (one)
Tās ir gāzes plītis (many)

In your sentence trauku is in the genetive plural

Tie ir jauni griesti (because griesti is in the plural, it's always in the plural)

Man vajag nomainīt drošinātāju is correct

Vai drīkstu apskatīt balkonu

Vai šis ir elektriskais sildītājs

Tas ir trauku skapis (one)
Tie ir trauku skapji (many)

[Sol Invictus]

'Latviski' is an adverb, like 'in Latvian'.

I think 'Latviešu' is a noun in genitive plural (like 'of the Latvians', but it is normally used an adjective. So we can talk about 'Latviešu valoda' = "The Latvian language" or more literally "The language of the Latvians".

But they essentially have the same meaning:

Vai tu runā latviski? (Do you speak Latvian?)
Vai tu runā latviešu valodu? (Rarer, "Do you speak the Latvian language, but possible)

Noun can describe property, but it is not and can't be adjective, many abverbs on the other hand are very simmilar to adjectives. The second example is grammaticly correct, but no one ever would use that - you don't speak a language, you speak in it.
---
Usually the nummber of the descriptive noun remains unchanged - tā ir gāzes plīts, tās ir gāzes plītis, tas ir trauku skapis, tie ir trauku skapji

And "trauku" is not accusative plural (ko ? - traukus) - trauku can be genative plural and accusative singullar, in this case it's genative plural

"Griesti" is plural, there is no singular for some words in Latvian, other house related words without singular for example are "durvis" (door) and "vārti" (gates). You might avoid confusing them simply by learning endings of nouns by heart (e.g. singular noun in nominative never ends with -i)
---
Kādā valodā tu runā ? nevis Kurā ? izklausās labāk

[schmoo]

Liels paldies par palīdzību..

Es domāju, ka es saprotu... (I think I understand??)

or

Es saprotu, ko jūs gribat teikt.. (I see what you mean??)

Is it a common rule when having two nouns together to describe one object that they are GEN + NOM ? and also that the GEN noun stays constant in either singular or plural format ?

Trauku skapis (singular)
Trauku skapji (plural)

Gāzes plīts (singular)
Gāzes plītis (plural)

Avižu galdiņš (singular)
Avižu galdiņi (plural)

Vai tie ir pareizais ?

I have learned that a phrase denoting ownership or belonging translating as 'to have' uses this format:

(DAT) +verb+ (NOM)

and similarly that the opposite, ie not having is

(DAT) +verb+ (GEN)

piemēriem (for example?)


Man ir brālis (I have a brother)

Man nav brāļa (I don't have a brother)


So i've tried combining that with the pairs of nouns, so are these right:

Man ir mašinas durvis (I have a car door )

(DAT) verb (GEN/sin)(NOM/sin)

Man nav mašinas durvja (I don't have a car door )

(DAT) verb (GEN/sin)(GEN/sin)


and to add a numeral into the sentence which has to agree with the direct object:

Man ir četri mašinas durvji (I have 4 car doors )

(DAT) verb (NOM/plu)(GEN/sin)(NOM/plu)

Man nav četru mašinas durvju (I don't have 4 car doors )

(DAT) verb (GEN/plu)(GEN/sin)(GEN/plu)

un 'mak' .... kāds sodien laiks ?

I hope to be in Riga around the 6th March...can't wait !

oh and is the correct word for Microwave (as in oven, not radiation!).. Mikrovilnis ??

Atā

[Sol Invictus]

Liels paldies par palīdzību..

Es domāju, ka es saprotu... (I think I understand??)

or

Es saprotu, ko jūs gribat teikt.. (I see what you mean??)

both

Is it a common rule when having two nouns together to describe one object that they are GEN + NOM ? and also that the GEN noun stays constant in either singular or plural format ?

Trauku skapis (singular)
Trauku skapji (plural)

Gāzes plīts (singular)
Gāzes plītis (plural)

Avižu galdiņš (singular)
Avižu galdiņi (plural)

Vai tie ir pareizais ?

I think so - your examples are correct (but avīžu not avižu). However your question is wrong - should be "Vai šie ir pareizi" - when you are talking about something relatively near or present at the place you should use "šie", "tie" is used if something is far from you or not present at the place, I think you can compare it with "these" and "those" or "this" and "that" in english, and "pareizais" is singular with definite ending, since it seems that you made up these examples for this post you should use indefinite ending, if you would answer to another post, say - someone had pointed to you that you should give other examples, because those you have given are incorrect you could use definite ending, comparing to english what you said was something like "Are those the correct one ?"

I have learned that a phrase denoting ownership or belonging translating as 'to have' uses this format:

(DAT) +verb+ (NOM)

and similarly that the opposite, ie not having is

(DAT) +verb+ (GEN)

piemēram (for example?) singular not plural

Man ir brālis (I have a brother)

Man nav brāļa (I don't have a brother)


So i've tried combining that with the pairs of nouns, so are these right:

Man ir mašīnas durvis (I have a car door )

(DAT) verb (GEN/sin)(NOM/plural)

Man nav mašīnas durvju (I don't have a car door )

(DAT) verb (GEN/sin)(GEN/plural)


and to add a numeral into the sentence which has to agree with the direct object:

Man ir četri mašinas durvji (I have 4 car doors )

(DAT) verb (NOM/plu)(GEN/sin)(NOM/plu)

durvis is f plural (as I said in my previous post ) - Man ir četras mašīnas durvis

Man nav četru mašīnas durvju (I don't have 4 car doors )

(DAT) verb (GEN/plural)(GEN/sin)(GEN/plural)

un 'mak' .... kāds sodien laiks ?

I hope to be in Riga around the 6th March...can't wait !

oh and is the correct word for Microwave (as in oven, not radiation!).. Mikrovilnis ??

Atā

It's mikroviļņu krāsns

[mak]

un 'mak' .... kāds sodien laiks ?

I hope to be in Riga around the 6th March...can't wait !

Ļoti auksts, šorīt bija pat -27 un skolēni varēja neiet uz skolu Bet saulīte spīdēja visu dienu

[Sol Invictus]

un 'mak' .... kāds sodien laiks ?

I hope to be in Riga around the 6th March...can't wait !

Ļoti auksts, šorīt bija pat -27 un skolēni varēja neiet uz skolu Bet saulīte spīdēja visu dienu

Vispār vakar agri no rīta Rīgā bija -30 (runā, ka laukos bija pat aukstāks) savukārt šorīt bija -22, tomēr jāsaka, ka pēcpusdienās ir ap -12 un liekas diezgan silts. Šogad laiks tāds dīvains

[schmoo]

Liels paldies laika ziņojumi

(Thanks for the weather reports ?)


I have tried to translate:

Ļoti auksts, šorīt bija pat -27 un skolēni varēja neiet uz skolu Bet saulīte spīdēja visu dienu

Very cold, this morning was even -27 and the pupils weren't able to go to school, but the sun shines all day

If that is correct, why is the negative attached to the verb iet and not to varēt ? As it looks like 'were able not to go' which doesn't make much sense..


Vispār vakar agri no rīta Rīgā bija -30 (runā, ka laukos bija pat aukstāks) savukārt šorīt bija -22, tomēr jāsaka, ka pēcpusdienās ir ap -12 un liekas diezgan silts. Šogad laiks tāds dīvains

Generally, early yesterday morning in Riga it was -30 (______, that _______ was even colder). ________ this morning it was -22, nevertheless ________, that in the afternoon it ___ -12 and ______ _______ warm. This year the weather ______ strange.

I did use the online dictionary to look up the translations i've missed out, but the words made no sense..

when you add the prefix jā - onto a verb whats the rule for the verb ending, I know the agent is in the Dative case, like 'Man jāsaka'...do the verbs all take 3rd person format hence the 'a' ending ?


I do apologise for asking questions in English, but with all the phrases and words i have learned i still dont understand verbs and their endings and how you know which conjugation each is in, so anything i would type wouldnt be right...


Out of interest, is the word for draftsman Zimētajs, and do you know if there is much work around Riga of this kind ?

atvainojiet !

[mak]

Liels paldies par laika ziņojumiem

Very cold, this morning was even -27 and the pupils weren't able to go to school, but the sun shines all day

If that is correct, why is the negative attached to the verb iet and not to varēt ? As it looks like 'were able not to go' which doesn't make much sense..

They could stay home

Es varu iet uz skolu. I can go to school
Es varu neiet uz skolu. I can stay home
Es nevaru iet uz skolu. I cannot go to school

when you add the prefix jā - onto a verb whats the rule for the verb ending, I know the agent is in the Dative case, like 'Man jāsaka'...do the verbs all take 3rd person format hence the 'a' ending ?

Jā, but not always 'a'