The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

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The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2016-06-20, 12:31

مرحبا يا جميعكم!


I think it would be interesting to start a "The person below me..." game using dialects. We all know that Fus7a is the best variety of Arabic if you wish to read books or to understand the news, but unfortunately it won't help you very much in everyday life. So, why not giving the dialects more space in our forum?

Here is my proposal. Everyone should write a line in an Arabic dialect, either in the Arabic or in the Latin script, indicating in parentheses which dialect is being used; under it, we shall write its translation either in Modern Standard Arabic or English (to make sure everyone understands). The following person can reply in that very dialect, or in another dialect by following the same structure.

Let's start!

---

الشَخص التَحتاني ساكِن بِشِقّة بِوُسط المَدينة. (Lebanese Arabic  (ar-LB))
The following person lives in a flat in the city centre.
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby Meera » 2016-06-24, 20:00

لا

الشَخص التَحتاني يحكي عربي
अहिंसा/เจ
True Love:  (hi)
TAC 2017:  (ja)  (fr)
University: (ar)

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-06, 7:09

ايه.

Yes.

البيت الشخص التحتاني بعيدة كثير من سوريا. :?:
(Damascene Syrian Arabic (ar-SY))
The person below me's home is far away from Syria.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby voron » 2017-03-06, 15:23

vijayjohn wrote:
البيت الشخص التحتاني بعيدة كثير من سوريا. :?:


*بعيد

ايه, بيتي بعيد من سوريا. بس بدي اروح عاسوريا لما رح تخلص الحرب
Yes, my home is far from Syria. But I want to go to Syria when the war is over.

بغرفة الشخص الجاي قي كتب كتير
In the room of the next person there are many books.
Last edited by voron on 2017-03-06, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2017-03-06, 22:19

ايه، في كتب كتار بأوضتي.  (ar-LB)
Yes, in my room there are many books.

الشخص التحتاني دايمًا بيحضر التلفزيون وهو آكل.
The person below me always watches TV when he/she eats.
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby eskandar » 2017-03-06, 22:47

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
البيت الشخص التحتاني بعيدة كثير من سوريا. :?:


*بعيد

I think it should be: بيت الشخص التحتاني بعيد كثير من سوريا
I think you could also write البيت تبع الشخص ..., and depending on the dialect you're going for, you could write كثير as كتير as iodalach93 has done.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-07, 3:51

Thanks, voron and eskandar! I was wondering whether I was using too many definite articles but completely missed the gender agreement. :P Is كتير possible in Damascene, too?
iodalach93 wrote:الشخص التحتاني دايمًا بيحضر التلفزيون وهو آكل.
The person below me always watches TV when he/she eats.

Damascene Arabic (ar-SY)لا، ناضرا ما اتفرج عالتلفزيون.

No, I rarely watch TV.

الشخص التحتاني عم بسمع للموسيقى و عم بدرس بذات الوقت. :?:

The person below me is listening to music and studying at the same time.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2017-03-07, 10:01

vijayjohn wrote:
الشخص التحتاني عم بسمع للموسيقى و عم بدرس بذات الوقت. :?:

The verb سِمِع usually governs the direct object without any preposition, at least in Levantine Arabic. See these examples from "A Dictionary of Syrian Arabic" by K. Stowasser and M. Ani (page 140):

.بحِبّ أِسمَع موسيقى كلاسيكيّة = I like to listen to classical music.
.ما عاد فيّي أِسمَع هالقِصَّة = I can't listen to that any longer.

بكل أحوال،  (ar-LB)
Anyway,

لا، ما بسمع موسيقى ولا مرّة وأنا دارس.
No, I never listen to music when I study.

الشخص التحتاني بيحبّ يروح عالمتاحف تا يتطلّع عاللوحات.
The person below me loves going to museums to look at the paintings.
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby voron » 2017-03-07, 11:24

iodalach93 wrote:كتب كتار

Can you please explain the noun-adjective agreement in this phrase? In MSA it's كتب كثيرة, right? And in Syrian I think I saw that they just don't change the "ktiir" part when it means "many" (though I'm not sure about this). In your sentence there is yet another option, is it specific to Lebanese?

iodalach93 wrote:وأنا دارس

It's interesting how you used the و construction twice when you meant "when". I know it exists in MSA, is it also widespread in Lebanese?

تا يتطلّع عاللوحات

What is this تا ? In MSA it would be لينظر إلى صور, right? Can we use ل in Lebanese to mean "in order to do something"?

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2017-03-07, 12:42

Привет, Ворон!

voron wrote:Can you please explain the noun-adjective agreement in this phrase? In MSA it's كتب كثيرة, right? And in Syrian I think I saw that they just don't change the "ktiir" part when it means "many" (though I'm not sure about this). In your sentence there is yet another option, is it specific to Lebanese?

In Lebanese Arabic, and I believe in all the Levantine dialects as well, agreement rules regarding number are quite loose. Plural non-human nouns can be followed by both feminine singular (as in Modern Standard Arabic) or plural adjectives (as in Aramaic, the language which was widely spoken in the Levant before Arabic and which has affected nowadays' Levantine dialects). Feminine singular adjectives are seen as a more "proper" form, probably because they're relatable to MSA. Concerning "ktiir", things are even more complicated because it can be used also as an invariable quantifier before the noun.
So, I believe that كتب كتيرة, كتب كتار and كتير كتب are all fine and used. Feel free to use the one you like the most (or the one you hear the most).

voron wrote:It's interesting how you used the و construction twice when you meant "when". I know it exists in MSA, is it also widespread in Lebanese?

Yes, I find it quite often. I think it has a widespread use (it has a temporal meaning like when/while in English and it's mostly used with the present participle) because it's simple coordination.

voron wrote:What is this تا ? In MSA it would be لينظر إلى صور, right? Can we use ل in Lebanese to mean "in order to do something"?

Yes, a number of particles/conjunctions are used in Lebanese Arabic to convey a final meaning. In my own experience, I noticed that تا is the most used in Beiruti Arabic. One hears also حَتّى, عَشان/عَلى شان, كِرمال, لَ.
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby eskandar » 2017-03-07, 18:45

iodalach93 wrote:
voron wrote:What is this تا ? In MSA it would be لينظر إلى صور, right? Can we use ل in Lebanese to mean "in order to do something"?

Yes, a number of particles/conjunctions are used in Lebanese Arabic to convey a final meaning. In my own experience, I noticed that تا is the most used in Beiruti Arabic.

This is fascinating, I didn't know this existed. I wonder if it could possibly be from Persian, where تا (which is a "native" Persian word) is used exactly the same way. It could have entered Lebanese Arabic via Ottoman Turkish, as it borrowed ta (usually ta ki) from Persian and uses it in the same way.
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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2017-03-07, 19:56

eskandar wrote:This is fascinating, I didn't know this existed. I wonder if it could possibly be from Persian, where تا (which is a "native" Persian word) is used exactly the same way. It could have entered Lebanese Arabic via Ottoman Turkish, as it borrowed ta (usually ta ki) from Persian and uses it in the same way.

I also find it fascinating, eskandar :) My teacher insists that it's just a short form of حتّى... it might be a combination of both, who knows!
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby eskandar » 2017-03-07, 22:43

iodalach93 wrote:I also find it fascinating, eskandar :) My teacher insists that it's just a short form of حتّى... it might be a combination of both, who knows!

That sounds like a very plausible explanation, too! I agree that it's probably a combination, overdetermined by multiple sources..
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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby voron » 2017-03-10, 16:30

iodalach93 wrote:Привет, Ворон!

Привет, и спасибо за ответы!

Yes, a number of particles/conjunctions are used in Lebanese Arabic to convey a final meaning. In my own experience, I noticed that تا is the most used in Beiruti Arabic. One hears also حَتّى, عَشان/عَلى شان, كِرمال, لَ.

I asked my good Syrian friend about how I can say "I'm going to the village to visit my mother".
He suggested these options:
انا رايح عالضيعة زور امي (no particle at all, just the subjunctive)
لأزور امي
لحتى زور امي

When I asked about تا he said "You can use it if you like".

And wow, the subjunctive in the Levantine dialects is so similar to the one in the Balkan Sprachbund languages. In every Levantine sentence with the subjunctive I have seen so far I would have used the subjunctive in Serbian, too.
(For example, the sentence above: Idem na selo da posetim (SUBJ) svoju majku).

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Re: The person below me... (game) - ARABIC DIALECTS/اللهجات العربية

Postby iodalach93 » 2017-03-11, 0:09

Не за что!

I agree, the way Levantine dialects use the subjunctive mood remind me of Persian as well. In Persian too, subordination with the bare subjunctive (without any conjunctions) is possible.
 (en) Please correct my mistakes.  (fr) Corrigez mes erreurs, s'il vous plaît.  (sv) Snälla, rätta till mina fel.  (ru) Исправляйте, пожалуйста, мои ошибки.  (ja) 間違いを正してください。  (ar) تصحّحوا أخطائي من فضلكم.  (el) Παρακαλώ διορθώστε τα λάθη μου.  (ga) Ceartaígí mo chuid earráidí, le bhur dtoil.  (fa) لطفا اشتباهاتم را اصلاح کنید.


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