Learning Notes - Expugnator

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E}{pugnator
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-05-15, 15:42

I've come across the following phrasing at Natadze's:

თქვენ ძმები გყვანან

I assume გყვანან is archaic and that people just say გყავთ
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-05-15, 19:53

No, it's an irregularity of this verb. Aronson talks about it in note 7 of chapter 12:

[მყავს] has a special form for the third plural object: მყვანან 'I have them'. The imperfect and conjunctive present can also be formed from this root: მყვანდა, მყვანდეს.

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-06-04, 16:27

I've been using a monolingual course for Georgian, with audio. It claims to take you up to a B1 level. It starts to get hard, both to follow the dialogues and to understand the explanation, even though the vocabulary at the 11th lesson is still basic. Here is a sentence I couldn't understand:

- აი ეს ლამაზი ბავშვი, იქ დგას, მომესალმა და ვერ ვიცანი!
- Here is this beautiful child, standing there, momesalma?? and I couldn't recognize her.

I say the course is monolingual because the dialogues get no transcription/translation and the texts get no translation. The instructions are available in Armenian and Azeri, so, I can understand the Georgian better. The url is:

http://www.ice.ge/web/elearning_geo.html
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-06-04, 21:27

That looks difficult, so good luck with that. Of course having audio is always nice . :)

მომესალმა is "she greeted me," aor. of მო=ე-სალმება. Note how the root is სალამ greeting (from Arabic).

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-06-05, 17:14

I'm starting to like it. Usually what I can't get from the dialogues I find again in the exercises. I mean, the first exercises usually consist in linking the sentences from the dialogues.

Today I came across the sentence "შეიძლება ერთი წუთით შეგაწუხოთ?" (May I bother you for a while?). I don't remember seing it in other resources, maybe only in the dialogues from ACC.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-11-28, 20:21

I've started a challenge that consists in trying to write 30 dialogue in Georgian before March 4th. First one wasn't that hard, but the second one was really difficult. I can't remember the verbal forms of the future and GT isn't helping. I posted it at italki a few hours ago and I'm waiting for corrections, meanwhile I mirror it here in case I'm feeling lucky...

- მაია, სად მიდიხარ?
- ფურნში მივდივარ. შავი ფური და რძე უნდა ვიყიდო.
- კარაქი ხომ არ იყიდი?
- კი, ვიყიდი! გმადლობ, რომ მახსენებს.
- ფურნე როცა დაიხურე? არ დაგგიანდები?
- ნუ შეწუხე, რაღა ვიჩქარო, ღამით რვა საათამდე გაღებულია.

- Maya, where are you going?
- I'm going to the bakery. I need to buy dark bread and milk.
- Won't you buy butter?
- Yes, I will. Thanks for reminding me.
- When does the bakery close? Won't you be late?
- Don't worry, I don't need to hurry. It stays open until eight o'clock in the evening.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-11-28, 23:51

Sounds like a good project. Are you making up the dialogues as you go along?

What is GT? It seems I haven't been paying attention. :whistle:

E}{pugnator wrote:- ფურნში მივდივარ.


ფურნეში. -ე doesn't elide with -ში.

E}{pugnator wrote:მახსენებს.


მახსენებ for a second person subject.

E}{pugnator wrote:- ფურნე როცა დაიხურე?


როცა is a subordinating conjunction. როდის is the interrogative.

დაიხურება. -ე would be second person aorist.

E}{pugnator wrote:არ დაგგიანდები?


დაგაგვიანდება. The subject is marked by the object.

E}{pugnator wrote:- ნუ შეწუხე,


შეწუხდები, the negative imperative uses the present or future. I think this would be more like "don't trouble yourself" though. "Don't worry" would probably be ნუ იწუხებ.

E}{pugnator wrote:რაღა ვიჩქარო


I'm not familiar with this expression. Is it an idiom?

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-11-29, 10:38

Yes, I'm making up all the dialogues. Thanks for the corrections! I'm trying to express exactly what I want to say, even when I have no idea of the actual expression in Georgian. I want to simulate real situations. Should have reviewed it before, since I ended up making silly mistakes apart from the more complex ones :lol:

Here is the project:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37197&PN=0&TPN=3

GT is just Google Translator.

At "რაღა ვიჩქარო" I meant to say "Why should I hurry?" I've seen რაღა used in this case, for making rethorical questions in the meaning of "what for?".

I should post here more often, as this forum is more active. Just got hold of Georgian Reader by Hewitt. It is ok but not worth that much money. It is just texts with translation and a glossary. No extensive notes as it was the case with A Continuing Course.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-11-29, 15:43

Good luck with your challenge. I just hope my corrections were, well, correct. It's usually not an issue to determine whether a form is morphologically correct, but the question, as you say, is how to phrase things the way a Georgian would. რაღა for example seems to have many uses as a particle, so it's hard to say if it would sound natural.

It would be nice if we had a native speaker here, but they seem to be in short supply. I wonder if Messing has gone again. :?

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-11-29, 16:51

Here's what I got:

- (ფურნში) ფურნეში მივდივარ. შავი (ფური) პური და რძე უნდა ვიყიდო.
- (კარაქი) კარაქს ხომ არ იყიდი? (more common is - კარაქი არ გინდა?)
- კი, ვიყიდი! გმადლობ, რომ (მახსენებს) შემახსენე (<--We say it this way).
- ფურნე (როცა) როდის (დაიხურე) იხურება? არ (დაგგიანდები) გაგვიანდება?
- ნუ (შეწუხე) წუხხარ, (რაღა ვიჩქარო) არ მეჩქარება, ღამით რვა საათამდე (გაღებულია) ღიაა.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-11-29, 20:21

Looks like I missed some too (კარაქს, oops :lol: ), but mostly he used presents where we had futures (except იხურება, where it was the other way around, and შემახსენე), so it seems we weren't too far off. Thanks for posting the correction.

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-11-29, 23:11

Another correction I got:

საცხობი
- მაია, სად მიდიხარ?
- საცხობში მივდივარ. შავი პური და რძე უნდა ვიყიდო.
- კარაქს არ იყიდი?
- კი, ვიყიდი! გმადლობთ შეხსენებისთვის .
- როდის იხურება საცხობი? არ დაგაგვიანდება?
- ნუ ღელავ, აჩქარება არ მჭირდება . საცხობი საღამოს 8 საათამდე ღიაა.

I knew I had seen something like საცხობი before! I think this one was more literal starting from the English, while in fact I wrote first in Georgian.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-11-30, 1:23

Hmm, I just realized my dictionary from Dunwoody doesn't even list ფურნე, but the one on Georgianweb.com has it. I wonder what the difference is. Maybe it's a dialect thing.

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby Messing » 2013-12-02, 11:42

HoneyBuzzard wrote:Hmm, I just realized my dictionary from Dunwoody doesn't even list ფურნე, but the one on Georgianweb.com has it. I wonder what the difference is. Maybe it's a dialect thing.


Yes, it's dialect thing and it means პურის საცხობი, bakery.

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-12-02, 17:14

That explains it. Thanks for clearing that up. :D

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-12-17, 11:31

Time for some more practice. This time I'm writing about Tamar's Basic Georgian, which just arrived.

- ჩემი ახალი წიგნი ჩავიდა.
- რომელი წიგნია?
- ქართული ენის სახელმძღვანელო.
- კარგია?
- ძალიან კარგი არ არის. მეგონა, უკეთესი იქნებოდა.
- რა საწყენია! აბა სასარგებლო ხომ არ არის?
- კი, სასარგებლოა. მომავალ წელს გამოვიყენე. ახლა სცვა წიგნი უნდა წაკითხო.

- My new book has arrived.
- Which book is it?
- A Georgian self-teaching manual.
- Is it good?
- It is not very good. I thought it would be better.
- What a pity! But it is useful, isn't it?
- Yes, it is. I am going to use it next year. Now I have to finish reading another book.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-12-17, 18:49

E}{pugnator wrote:- ჩემი ახალი წიგნი ჩავიდა.
- My new book has arrived.


I'm sure this is good, but I would have used the perfect, i.e., ჩასულა. I'm not sure which would sound more natural. Any particular reason you went with the aorist?

E}{pugnator wrote:მომავალ წელს გამოვიყენე.
I am going to use it next year.


გამოვიყენე is aorist.

E}{pugnator wrote:ახლა სცვა წიგნი უნდა წაკითხო.
Now I have to finish reading another book.


Do you mean სხვა?

წაკითხო should be წავიკითხო. You could probably also have gone with a more literal translation like ახლა უნდა დავამთავრო სხვა წიგნის კითხვა.

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-12-18, 20:43

I really meant to say სხვა, was a typo, as c stands right to c :) I'm impressed that that literal translation would actually work out.

Which would be the future of გამოვიყენე ?

As for ჩავიდა, no particular reason. I'm not familiarized at all with the perfect series, I tend to go with aorist unless I want to negate something unintentional or there is a past event prior to another one.

Btw, Basic Georgian has no key to the exercises, so I thought of posting them here so we can discuss them, especially the version ones, into Georgian. Maybe opening a new thread for the next year would make things more organized. I'm going to start Basic Georgian somewhere in Januarty and it will be my last textbook. After that, only readers, novels with translation and an occasional look at grammars.
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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby HoneyBuzzard » 2013-12-18, 21:16

E}{pugnator wrote:Which would be the future of გამოვიყენე ?


"გამოვიყენებ."

E}{pugnator wrote:Btw, Basic Georgian has no key to the exercises, so I thought of posting them here so we can discuss them, especially the version ones, into Georgian. Maybe opening a new thread for the next year would make things more organized. I'm going to start Basic Georgian somewhere in Januarty and it will be my last textbook. After that, only readers, novels with translation and an occasional look at grammars.


That sounds like an interesting project. I'll look forward to it. :)

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Re: Learning Notes - Expugnator

Postby E}{pugnator » 2013-12-23, 22:33

As corrected from a native speaker:

ახალი წიგნი
- ჩემი ახალი წიგნი ჩამოვიდა
- რომელი წიგნია?
- ქართული ენის თვითმასწავლებელი სახელმძღვანელო
- კარგია?
- ძალიან კარგი არ არის. მეგონა/ვფიქრობდი, უკეთესი იქნებოდა.
- რა საწყენია! მაგრამ ის ხომ სასარგებლოა, არა?
- კი, სასარგებლოა. მე ვაპირებ ის მომავალ წელს გამოვიყენო. ახლა სხვა წიგნის კითხვა უნდა დავასრულო
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