The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby johnklepac » 2016-04-20, 20:50

Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce "caramel"? I pronounce it as /kɑɹml̩/.

[ˈkaɻmʟ]

hashi wrote:I was thinking today about the way I pronounce student, which is something like [ʃtʃʉd̚n̩t].
How does everyone else do it?

[ˈstuɾnt̚].

linguoboy wrote:
Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce "caramel"? I pronounce it as /kɑɹml̩/.

I grew up saying that, but at some point I began saying [ˈkʰæɚ̯əml̩] as well, and now I switch between the two according to criteria so arcane I've never been able to sort them out.

I have a few words like that, like "either" and "envelope". Generally, though, I'll use my normal [ˈiðɚ] and [ˈɜnvɫ̩op] until my conversational partner uses the /ˈaɪðər/ or /ˈɑːnvəloʊp/ pronunciation. I wonder if there's any regional variation there.

vijayjohn wrote:AFAIK there's no such thing as an "Austin accent." :hmm: But yes, it's possible that toogletoggle does have a Texas accent. :yep: I've met some people like that here (in Austin) but not all that many.

I remember reading something once about slightly different dialectal features reported in different areas of Texas, especially including how much or little /aʊ/ was raised and /ɔː/ was diphthongized, although I don't remember which of the three or four "zones" described Austin fell into. I wouldn't expect Austin to have much of an established dialect, though, even a general Southern one, because of all the transplants.

(This is why I'm skeptical of the conventional wisdom that NYC having a dialect at all is "dying out" - what we know of today as Brooklynese, formed over time by Dutch, Jewish, Italian, Russian, etc. immigrants may be losing ground, but immigration into the city from Asia, Africa, and Latin America is higher than ever, so I wouldn't be surprised if something akin to Multicultural London English developed there.)

uzferry

Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby uzferry » 2016-06-14, 20:39

Is there a difference between whole and hole in pronunciation?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Dormouse559 » 2016-06-14, 20:58

uzferry wrote:Is there a difference between whole and hole in pronunciation?
No, they're both pronounced /hoʊ̯l/ (adjust for dialectal differences as appropriate).
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-08-27, 15:40

johnklepac wrote:I remember reading something once about slightly different dialectal features reported in different areas of Texas, especially including how much or little /aʊ/ was raised and /ɔː/ was diphthongized, although I don't remember which of the three or four "zones" described Austin fell into. I wouldn't expect Austin to have much of an established dialect, though, even a general Southern one, because of all the transplants.

Aren't isoglosses for American English messy?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2016-08-28, 15:24

Dormouse559 wrote:
uzferry wrote:Is there a difference between whole and hole in pronunciation?
No, they're both pronounced /hoʊ̯l/ (adjust for dialectal differences as appropriate).

I remember reading about "Estuary English" on Wikipedia:

Wholly-holy split, which means that wholly /ˈhɒʊli/ doesn't rhyme with holy /ˈhəʊli/.

More on this: goat split

The goat split is a process that has affected London dialects and Estuary English.[22][23] In the first phase of the split, the diphthong of "goat" /əʊ/ developed an allophone [ɒʊ] before "dark" (nonprevocalic) /l/. Thus "goal" no longer had the same vowel as "goat" ([ɡɒʊɫ] vs. [ɡəʊʔ]).[22] In the second phase, the diphthong [ɒʊ] spread to other forms of affected words. For example, the realization of "rolling" changed from [ˈɹəʊlɪŋ] to [ˈɹɒʊlɪŋ] on the model of "roll" [ɹɒʊɫ]. This led to the creation of a minimal pair for some speakers: "wholly" [ˈhɒʊli] vs. "holy" [ˈhəʊli] and thus to phonemicization of the split.[22]

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2016-08-29, 14:14

OldBoring wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:
uzferry wrote:Is there a difference between whole and hole in pronunciation?
No, they're both pronounced /hoʊ̯l/ (adjust for dialectal differences as appropriate).

I remember reading about "Estuary English" on Wikipedia:

Wholly-holy split, which means that wholly /ˈhɒʊli/ doesn't rhyme with holy /ˈhəʊli/.

More on this: goat split

The goat split is a process that has affected London dialects and Estuary English.[22][23] In the first phase of the split, the diphthong of "goat" /əʊ/ developed an allophone [ɒʊ] before "dark" (nonprevocalic) /l/. Thus "goal" no longer had the same vowel as "goat" ([ɡɒʊɫ] vs. [ɡəʊʔ]).[22] In the second phase, the diphthong [ɒʊ] spread to other forms of affected words. For example, the realization of "rolling" changed from [ˈɹəʊlɪŋ] to [ˈɹɒʊlɪŋ] on the model of "roll" [ɹɒʊɫ]. This led to the creation of a minimal pair for some speakers: "wholly" [ˈhɒʊli] vs. "holy" [ˈhəʊli] and thus to phonemicization of the split.[22]


Yeah, however that doesn't affect the words "whole" and "hole". "Whole" and "hole" are pronounced the same for speakers with the GOAT split.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Koko » 2016-08-31, 5:26

That reminds me of these two:

In isolation:
Wholly [ˈhoːli] (a very slightly longer hold on the l, but nothing that merits different transcription)
Holy [ˈhoʊ̯li]

But this distinction is not clearcut. Holy usually merges with "wholly" (including that tiny lengthening of the l).

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Llawygath » 2016-09-11, 5:52

Does anyone actually pronounce "all right" (alright) as [ɔraɪ], or is that something I made up? I can't remember anymore. I feel like it comes from somewhere, but I'm not sure. (I haven't said it like that in years, by the way; I've fortunately reverted to [ɒɫ ɻʌɪt].)

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2016-09-11, 13:54

I've heard (and probably said) [ɒˈɹɐɪ̯ʔ], but I don't know anyone who elides the final consonant completely.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby hashi » 2016-09-13, 23:49

When speaking at a normal speed, it's usually [oɹɐeʔ] (with NZE vowels taken into account) for me.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2016-09-25, 4:18

Genghis Khan

(Particularly interested in the initial consonant.)
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-09-25, 6:43

I used to pronounce it with a hard g but switched to using a soft one after learning the original form was Chingis.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Michael » 2016-09-25, 23:25

[ˈgɛŋgɪs kʰaːn]. That's the only pronunciation I've ever heard, but I may switch to môdgethanc's pronunciation. Not that it's a word I frequently use in speech anyways, though. :P
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2016-09-27, 6:54

linguoboy wrote:Genghis Khan

/d͡ʒɛnd͡ʒisˈkan/ or /ʈ͡ʂʰəŋ˧˥t͡ɕi˧˥sɨ˥xan˥˩/ :twisted:

We err on the opposite side. We use the weird pronunciation /d͡ʒɛnd͡ʒisˈkan/ because the most common spelling in Italian is Gengis Khan. On the other hand, if the spelling Genghis were more common, we would pronounce it closer to the original pronunciation.
So was Genghis an Italian-based romanisation? :hmm:

I pronounce the first g as palatal because of Italian, and the Chinese /ʈ͡ʂəŋ/ also confirms it. /t͡ɕi/ is trickier, cause it can transliterate both /gi/ and /d͡ʒi/ (or their unvoiced counterparts) in foreign languages.
Last edited by OldBoring on 2016-10-10, 2:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Car » 2016-09-27, 11:00

It's Dschingis Khan in German and as such pronounced /d͡ʒɪŋgɪs'ka:n/. You can also hear it pronounced in this famous song :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEUrp2V4ss
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2016-09-27, 15:11

Dsch looks so awkward. At least I'm kinda accustomed to tsch.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2016-09-27, 16:51

OldBoring wrote:Dsch looks so awkward. At least I'm kinda accustomed to tsch.

I used to feel the same, but you can get accustomed to anything. Like tj for [ʤ] in Catalan was really off-putting the first time I saw it, but now I kind of like it.

Question for the L2 English-speakers: Does your native pronunciation of Genghis' name influence your English pronunciation of it and, if so, how?
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Car » 2016-09-27, 19:46

linguoboy wrote:Question for the L2 English-speakers: Does your native pronunciation of Genghis' name influence your English pronunciation of it and, if so, how?

Before I looked it up, I always assumed it was some kind of (pseudo) Italian spelling, so I pronounced it /d͡ʒɛŋgɪs'ka:n/, definitely influenced by its German pronunciation.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Osias » 2016-10-01, 12:31

[quote="Car"]It's Dschingis Khan in German and as such pronounced /d͡ʒɪŋgɪs'ka:n/. You can also hear it pronounced in this famous song :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEUrp2V4ss[/youtube]
WAT

I thought only my mother knew that song, she used to sing a Brazilian version of the lyrics she saw on tv on early eighties. I never found it online.

Now I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6eJN6grf2s
 (es)  (fr)  (ca)  (sv)  (en-us) (pt-BR) e  (de)

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OyVey » 2016-10-09, 17:41

On the Wikipedia article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan they give the IPA and the sound file. In the sound file I don't hear the [ŋ] at all, but they transcribe it with [ŋ].

I used to pronounce it with a hard g but switched to using a soft one after learning the original form was Chingis.
Why did they change the transcription? Isn't [t͡ʃʰ] exactly how "ch" is pronounced in English?
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