The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby ling » 2015-08-27, 8:26

Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce Always? Like "all weez" or "all wayz"?


"all wiz".

Do you pronounce the "day" ending like the word "day" or "dee"? I pronounce them ending like the word "day".

Like Monday, Tuesday, etc.?

"day". Ending it with "dee" sounds rednecky to me.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby ling » 2015-08-27, 8:31

Mars80 wrote:
Some dialects of American English avoid the sound AU, presumably because some people find it unpleasant. But without AU, "law" becomes a homophone for "la" as in "la-di-da". If you then add "-yer" to make "lawyer", you come up with LAH-yer, the same pronunciation as the word "liar". Though cynics would say that that is appropriate, "lawyer" is not remotely the only word so affected by the loss of a vowel from a language that has so many words as has English. Some years ago, a TV commercial for Mazola Corn Oil that was apparently produced in California employed an announcer whose dialect excised the vowel sound AU — which is part of both "corn" and "oil". The name of the product came out "Mazola Car Nile" (Ma.zóe.la Kor Níe.yal). That is not what he meant, and does not make sense. English is so filled with words that are close in pronunciation but radically different in meaning that it is vital we retain all the differentiation we can. The loss of a single vowel creates dozens, and perhaps even hundreds, of new homophones in a language already overloaded with homophones. We cannot afford more confusion.

That article is a pile of garbage. The lack of an "au" sound is just local dialect, and has nothing to do with perceptions of unpleasantness. And it has no bearing on the pronunciation of "lawyer" (which I, a cot-caught merger speaker, pronounce "loyer") or "cork", which I pronounce like most Americans do, but not like someone from County Cark in Ireland.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2015-08-28, 6:04

linguoboy wrote:Whatever you do, mōdge, don't look at the guy's website. The ad-hoc respelling he uses there will make you blow a gasket.
1) I've been blinded
2) This would make sense if I didn't have exactly the same fucking vowel there:
thus OR is as in "forest" (in Fanetik, "fórast"), never as in "nor" (which, phonetically, is spelled "naur");

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Koko » 2015-08-28, 20:40

mōdgethanc wrote:2) This would make sense if I didn't have exactly the same fucking vowel there:
thus OR is as in "forest" (in Fanetik, "fórast"), never as in "nor" (which, phonetically, is spelled "naur");

:shock: I'm confused too. Is he saying that forest isn't /ˈfɔːrɪst/? So… /ˈfɑr-/?? I'd assume that to be a mispronunciation of "farthest" or playing with far + -est = *farest.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-08-28, 20:43

Koko wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:2) This would make sense if I didn't have exactly the same fucking vowel there:
thus OR is as in "forest" (in Fanetik, "fórast"), never as in "nor" (which, phonetically, is spelled "naur");

:shock: I'm confused too. Is he saying that forest isn't /ˈfɔːrɪst/? So… /ˈfɑr-/?? I'd assume that to be a mispronunciation of "farthest."

I'm not sure what he's saying, since forest is one of the words I have the card (i.e. START) vowel in, but not nor.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-01, 12:31

Here's what the guy has to say about the distinction between "ferry" and "furry".

Quote-THIS is the famous "distinction without a difference", except that there are about 4 times as many -erry's as -urry's. And please note that Dictionary gives woor.ee, foor.ee, and hoor.ee (that's the sound that the U with a 'hat' (circumflex accent) shows: short-OO), which I have not heard so regard as bizarre. Either they heard wrong or they're on drugs.
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Dictionary, oddly, is sometimes just plain wrong. For instance, "water" is not shown there as ever being pronounced "wut.er", but I listened very carefully to reports of water-main breaks on TV stations in the New York Tristate Metropolitan Area (the broadcasting capital of North America), and wut.er is plainly the pronunciation educated people in this area give that word. The SSWD project, of course, cannot offer "water" precisely because it has more than one common pronunciation.
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If you put together the -erry's and the -ery's pronounced the same, you get a MASS of words with ER as the crucial spelling, but if you try to use -ury rather than -urry, you get a completely different sound. So I think we'll go with -erry. But I appreciate your views. Cheers.

Quote-UR, ER, OR, and AR may be pronounced with tiny differences by SOME speakers in SOME dialects as to SOME words. I went to your URL for the Cambridge dictionary, which offers TWO bizarre transliterations (which may or may not be rendered in standard IPA but is opaque to me -- IPA transliterations tend to proceed from the positions of vocal apparatus of the linguists who speak them in preparing to write them; SSWD is concerned about what people HEAR, and if they hear no difference between, for instance, vaann and venn for French "vin", it doesn't matter to them whether the person saying it forms the word one way, because the listener hears it the same no matter which way a speaker might articulate it). Most to the point, the Cambridge dictionary shows TWO pronunciations, British dialect and American standard.
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I then went to the Merriam-Webster URLs for the other words and clicked on the speaker icon to listen to the pronunciations rendered, in American English, and found no distinction worth making. All those words would rhyme PERFECTLY as most people regard things. Of course, we could avoid the problem altogether by saying that there are two different pronunciations for "worry", so the word can't be changed!
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For most ordinary , for whom the SSWD project is intended, not for linguistics specialists, there is between a great many word pairs or groups, no difference worth 'worrying' about. There are a lot of overeducated people who have bugaboos about tiny matters of no consequence, and will argue them endlessly, to everyone else's tedium. I'm not about to argue the linguistic equivalent of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, a subject that may have fascinated some medieval theologians but nobody else.
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The SSWD project is about NEEDED change, and preferably changes that people can readily apply to things they HEAR. One transliteration for a small range of actual sounds is convenient, and all spelling is convention. Few speakers of standard English distinguish in sound between "ferry" and "furry". Having a distinction in spelling for these two HOMONYMS is useful. As to which spelling you favor for a reform of "worry", I have noted that you favor "wurry".

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The problem may be only that a following-R tends to alter the quality of the vowel before it, for some speakers more than others. I have not yet offered this word (which you plainly render "wurd" and I render "werd") and might select "wurry", on the basis that some people might see it as parallel to "merry", which they pronounce like "Mary". Or I may not offer it at all, since, as some people regard things, it has two pronunciations so cannot be changed if a change would antagonize some significant body of speakers. I am asking for more comments. Cheers.

Quote- YES, I noted that in checking "merge", some dictionaries use the U with a hat as the vowel. But in any case, that is the ER sound, as shown plainly by the sample words in Dictionary.com's own pronunciation key: "urge, term, firm, word, heard".
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As for "ont", I suggested that because "ant" is a homophone we can eliminate from a language filled to overflowing with homophones, and seems to those of us who say "ont" -- meaning a large proportion of the best-educated people in the U.S. and almost everybody in Britain, Australia, New Zealand, the Caribbean, etc. -- that calling a person by a homophone for an insect is arguably disrespectful. I have no power to impose anything, and the SSWD site is designed mainly to make people think. As for "tord", too-waurd is a spelling pronunciation, and as with ev-er-y and other spelling pronunciations (which my Random House Unabridged labels so people know better than to use them), spelling reformers can properly advise people that tho they think they are being careful to be correct, they are actually being wrong.
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The distinction between "ferry" and "furry" is, I repeat, not "worth making. All those words would rhyme PERFECTLY as most people regard things." People who try to draw needless distinctions and force people to try to supply only one of essentially interchangeable spellings do spelling reform a disservice. This is not the distinction between "merry" rhyming with "berry" and "merry" rhyming with "Mary". It is TRIVIA that ordinary people do not waste time on and cannot justify wasting educational time and money on. If you see a poem in which one line ends with "ferry" and the next appropriate line ends in "furry" or "worry" or "cherry" or "very", will you be startled by an appalling lack of rhyme? If so, you are one in perhaps 15,000 people.
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Native speakers of English cannot and do not make the short-E as in "bed" and follow it with R in the same syllable and come out with anything like what most people say for "very", "berry", etc. Following-R changes the quality of many vowels in its same syllable.
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Make all the silly and PRETENTIOUS distinctions you want. Ordinary people concerned with communication rather than language as an arcane study to itself will not trouble to heed you.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-01, 12:45

Apparently he says the distinction between "cot" and "caught" is important and the distinction between "ferry" and "furry" is pretentious.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-09-01, 13:26

Why do you keep quoting someone who clearly knows so little about phonology?
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-02, 20:08

How do you pronounce "marshmallow"? I pronounce it ending like "mellow", as though it were "marshmellow".

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Koko » 2015-09-03, 10:18

Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce "marshmallow"? I pronounce it ending like "mellow", as though it were "marshmellow".

This is exactly the same way I pronounce it, and used to write it like that too before learning it was -mallow.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-21, 0:29

How do you pronounce the word "comfortable"? I pronounce it as "cumfterble".

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2015-09-21, 0:50

cumftbl

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-21, 1:16

Youngfun wrote:cumftbl


You don't pronounce a vowel between the "ft" and the "bl"?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby OldBoring » 2015-09-21, 14:52

Well I probably say that in fast speech. While in slow speech I may have 4 syllables: cum-fer-tuh-bl. :lol:
But I'm not a native English speaker, so my speech doesn't count as an idiolect. More like an idiotlect.

About the <ble>, isn't it usually transcribed as [b] + syllabic [l]?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-21, 16:28

Youngfun wrote:About the <ble>, isn't it usually transcribed as [b] + syllabic [l]?


Yes.

I pronounce "comfortable" as three syllables "kumf ter bl".

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby JasleenKaur » 2015-09-24, 8:10

How do you pronounce the word "Saturday"? I pronounce it as "sa-cherr-day".

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-09-24, 16:23

[ˈsæɾɚdeɪ] ~ [ˈsæɾɚdi]
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Mars80 » 2015-09-25, 3:56

How do you pronounce "towards"? As "tords" or "tuh-wards"?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-09-25, 13:10

Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce "towards"? As "tords" or "tuh-wards"?

[tʰwɒɚ̯dz] ~ [tʰɒɚ̯dz]

For serious, ppl, lern to IPA.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Koko » 2015-09-26, 21:56

JasleenKaur wrote:How do you pronounce the word "Saturday"? I pronounce it as "sa-cherr-day".

[ˈsæɾə˞deɪ̯]

Mars80 wrote:How do you pronounce "towards"? As "tords" or "tuh-wards"?

[tʰuˈwoə˞dz]

For serious, ppl, lern to IPA.

This!


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