Uzferry's questions

[uzferry]

Hello, I would like to perfect my English (or is it American English?) pronunciation/accent and would like to know prevailing mistakes, and dead giveaways that I'm a foreigner. Also, I don't even know what accent I'm aiming for, so I would like to know what it resembles the most.
I'm Lithuanian, and as far as I noticed, our English accent usually resembles that of Slavic, and that's what I really try to prevent - are there still any traces left of my Baltic/Slavic accent?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bCgF1h9MaD

Extract:

A policeman patrols in the distance; otherwise there is not a soul visible, and the whole harbour is hushed in quiet.
I count my belongings once more — half a penknife, a bunch of keys, but not a farthing. Suddenly I dive into my pocket and take the papers out again. It was a mechanical movement, an unconscious nervous twitch. I selected a white unwritten page, and — God knows where I got the notion from — but I made a cornet, closed it carefully, so that it looked as if it were filled with something, and threw it far out on to the pavement. The breeze blew it onward a little, and then it lay still.
By this time hunger had begun to assail me in earnest. I sat and looked at the white paper cornet, which seemed as if it might be bursting with shining silver pieces, and incited myself to believe that it really did contain something. I sat and coaxed myself quite audibly to guess the sum; if I guessed aright, it was to be mine.

(Knut Hamsun, "the Hunger")

EDIT: from now on, seeing as it's kinda popular, I'll also post questions here!

[linguoboy]

Hello, I would like to perfect my English (or is it American English?) pronunciation/accent and would like to know prevailing mistakes, and dead giveaways that I'm a foreigner. Also, I don't even know what accent I'm aiming for, so I would like to know what it resembles the most.

Honestly, the Balto-Slavic non-native elements are so pronounced, I can't say what you're going for other than that it is rhotic.

In general, not bad except that you need to work on your interdentals. I heard no distinction at all between /θ/ and /t/ or /ð/ and /d/.

Initial aspiration of stops seemed inconsistent at best. For instance, "keys" sounded like the clearly non-native [kiːz].

One particularly salient mispronunciation was "visible" with [w]. This form of hypercorrection is particularly common among Central and Eastern Europeans and is much mocked by native speakers. (A friend of mine used to tease Germans by saying, "A rampaging wampire is wiolating my willage.")

[uzferry]

Thank you very much!

[Levike]

Honestly, the Balto-Slavic non-native elements are so pronounced, I can't say what you're going for other than that it is rhotic.

But did you understand what he was saying?

I did, but then I'm not sure it was because he was speaking clearly or because I'm also from a Slavic-ish region.

In any case, congrats uzferry, I've also been thinking about uploading a similar one, but I'm anything but sure about my pronunciation.

[linguoboy]

Honestly, the Balto-Slavic non-native elements are so pronounced, I can't say what you're going for other than that it is rhotic.

But did you understand what he was saying?

I think there was one place where I had to replay a few seconds in order to make it out. Otherwise I had no trouble.

ETA: It was "threw it far out". A combination of [t] in the first word and an unexpected vowel in far. (Sounds more like "for" to me.)

[uzferry]

I've also been thinking about uploading a similar one, but I'm anything but sure about my pronunciation.

Isn't that the point of uploading, to find out the flaws and fix them?

[Levike]

Isn't that the point of uploading, to find out the flaws and fix them?

Of course.

I'm also planning on posting one... sometime... in the far-distant-distant-distant future.

[uzferry]

Hi. Thanks again for the responses, here is another short one:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1fgJaODEpgU

Now, I'm aware that my "th" game is still not quite on point, and I'm aware that I missed letter "d" in word "and understanding".

Also, please don't mind the unexpected cut and change in the pitch and sound before the end - that was the part that demanded the most effort so it took quite a few times to record (that's why I've read it more slowly)

So, besides these things I mentioned, anything else to consider?

Which elements in my speech are typical for Balto-Slavic people? I'm so used to them I can't hear anything, and I want to minimize my accent up to the point where it's barely noticeable.

The text:
Once again now I have the feeling of shame burning inside me. This
intelligence has driven a wedge between me and all the people I once knew
and loved. Before, they laughed at me and despised me for my ignorance and
dullness; now, they hate me for my knowledge and understanding.

What in God's name do they want of me? They've driven me out of the factory. Now I'm more alone than ever
before ...

[uzferry]

Sorry for double post (checked the rules, didn't find anything about double posting)

Anyways, what are the other ways of saying "to go with him/her/it"? For example:

Good comes and goes, and I go with it

Now I realize this doesn't sound very good in terms of style. And I feel that there are some better ways to say that phrase.

So what are the options? I go along? I go along with it? Follow it? Maybe something else? Thank you in advance.

(what was implied by that sentence is that the subject always follows around all the good things and events that occur, trying to avoid pain and despair. Or maybe something even more complex, no idea tbh)

[vijayjohn]

So, besides these things I mentioned, anything else to consider?

In this recording, your accent sounds non-rhotic, except in the word burning where you do pronounce the r. The t in intelligence is supposed to be aspirated, but I don't hear the aspiration in this recording. Also, I think the r is too long the first time you say driven. And the v in ever still sounds like [w].

I think the biggest issue I find this time, though, is not pronunciation of individual sounds but rather intonation. The way you're pronouncing it sounds roughly like this to me as far as intonation goes, where capitalized letters indicate a rise in pitch:

once Again now i HAVE the FEEling of shame burning inSIDE me. this inTELLigence has DRIVEN A WEDGE between ME and all the PEOple i once knew and LOVED. beFORE, they LAUGHED at me and deSPISED me for my IGnorance and DULLness; NOW, they HATE me for my KNOWledge and underSTANding. what in god's name do they WANT of me? they've DRIven me out of the FACtory. now i'm MORE Alone than ever beFORE...

But if this helps, I think it should be more like this:

ONCE Again now (a short pause here is acceptable but not required) i have the FEEling of SHAME BURning inside me. THIS inTELLigence has driven a WEDGE between ME and ALL the people i ONCE KNEW and LOVED. beFORE, they LAUGHED at me and deSPISED me for my IGnorance and DULLness; NOW, they hate me for my KNOWledge and underSTANding. WHAT in god's name do they WANT of me? they've DRIven me out of the FACtory. NOW i'm MORE aLONE than Ever beFORE.

I'd also read "what in God's name do they want of me?" a bit more dramatically. What in God's name do they want of me?!

Which elements in my speech are typical for Balto-Slavic people?

The lack of aspiration, the intonation, and, as linguoboy said before, the use of [w] instead of [v]

Anyways, what are the other ways of saying "to go with him/her/it"? For example:

Good comes and goes, and I go with it

Now I realize this doesn't sound very good in terms of style. And I feel that there are some better ways to say that phrase.

So what are the options? I go along? I go along with it? Follow it? Maybe something else? Thank you in advance.

(what was implied by that sentence is that the subject always follows around all the good things and events that occur, trying to avoid pain and despair. Or maybe something even more complex, no idea tbh)

I would actually say I come with it rather than ?I go with it. Alternatively, I'd suggest something like I accompany it, I go along with it, or I keep it company. I follow it is okay but suggests a slightly different meaning for me, i.e. something like after a good thing happens, you go to wherever the next good thing is about to happen.

[uzferry]

Wow thanks, didn't think anyone would actually even post here anymore

As for the intonation, I'm not gonna lie, I absolutely don't understand how to control it and what to base it on. I have the exact same problem in French. Not sure why this is happening from a linguistic point of view

Now ever since I'm paying attention to my v's and aspiration, I feel that I can deal with them rather easily (and also started noticing that amongst Lithuanians it's quite common to use w instead of v. Again, not sure why do we do this, since we actually have v in Lithuanian and no w). But intonation.. I have no idea what to do with it

And also I'm not sure which standard I should be targeting - British or American. American English is a bit easier for me (the only way I can decently pronounce "there are" is with a rhotic r) and the influence from movies etc. plays a big role too, but during the school and uni years I've been studying what's apparently British English, so... not sure which way I should go, especially because my pronunciation seems to be a mixture of both

[hashi]

To be honest, it'd be beneficial to have an understanding of both, particularly as you neither live in the UK nor the US. You could find yourself in situations where you need to be using one or the other, and it would save you time later down the track if you're competent in both. It sounds like you have a good start on both (with using British at school, but American in pop culture/movies/TV etc), and from reading this thread, it seems you are capable of both the rhotic and non-rhotic aspects of the two variants - which is one of the most immediately obvious differences (aside from written aspects like spelling and different vocabulary).

As someone who also lives neither in the UK or US, the big issue with knowing both variants is consistency. That is, if you start writing something using American spelling, the remainder of whatever it is should stay the same. If you're wanting to sound as native as possible, you'd also want to ensure whatever accent you start with in a conversation/whatever is maintained.

[Unknown]

As someone who also lives neither in the UK or US, the big issue with knowing both variants is consistency. That is, if you start writing something using American spelling, the remainder of whatever it is should stay the same. If you're wanting to sound as native as possible, you'd also want to ensure whatever accent you start with in a conversation/whatever is maintained.

Yeah, in my experience I would argue that the issue with consistency lies the most in accents and variants. Of course the biggest issue for me at times is understanding Scottish accents. Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJNjn6fEk4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_uNGdpa4c

(both from the Jeremy Kyle show)

[hashi]

Yeah, in my experience I would argue that the issue with consistency lies the most in accents and variants.

What? Are you suggesting that those that speak accents (which is everyone) are not consistent with their accents? I was talking more from the viewpoint of a non-native sticking to whatever accent they are using. On top of that, I'm also referring particularly to spelling differences between BrE and AmE (which is increasingly becoming an issue in New Zealand for example since traditionally we tend to use more BrE conventions, but with increasing Americanisms in media and such, staying consistent is becoming difficult for a lot of people).

[Unknown]

What? Are you suggesting that those that speak accents (which is everyone) are not consistent with their accents? I was talking more from the viewpoint of a non-native sticking to whatever accent they are using. On top of that, I'm also referring particularly to spelling differences between BrE and AmE (which is increasingly becoming an issue in New Zealand for example since traditionally we tend to use more BrE conventions, but with increasing Americanisms in media and such, staying consistent is becoming difficult for a lot of people).

No I was referring to comprehension of different accents in my case, and it seemed to me like you were referring to that as well so I do apologize for any sort of misunderstanding.

But you are definitely right in that consistency has become quite difficult for many people because of increasing Americanisms.

[vijayjohn]

As for the intonation, I'm not gonna lie, I absolutely don't understand how to control it and what to base it on. I have the exact same problem in French. Not sure why this is happening from a linguistic point of view

I find that totally understandable. Intonation is a difficult thing to describe in technical terms and perhaps easier to just pick up than it is to put into words. How often do you listen to people speaking English, e.g. on the radio, TV, movies/DVDs, YouTube, or generally online? Because maybe the most helpful thing for you would be to just listen to native speakers speaking English and starting to imitate their intonation patterns...unless you've already done this, in which case maybe it would help to pay more attention to that when you're listening, idk.

[uzferry]

Well, I do listen to some English speaking people once in a while, especially on Youtube, but never payed attention to the intonation. I think the reason why I can't hit the right intonation might be because I'm reading and can't focus on many things at once, maybe in spoken speech I'd do better

Anyway, I have an unrelated question: seeing that "son of a bitch" is kind of a fixed expression nowadays, what would be the plural? I swear I want to say "son of a bitch" and add "es" at the end, but I'm aware it's not correct at all. But "sons of bitches" doesn't really have the same "ring", at least to me..

[Dormouse559]

"Sons of bitches" is right.

Unrelated style note: "Speech" already implies spoken language, so "spoken speech" sounds redundant. You can just say "speech".

[uzferry]

"Speech" already implies spoken language

But then how do you call a speech that is yet to be spoken, still on paper? Wouldn't that just be "written speech"? That's why I made a distinction

[Dormouse559]

But then how what do you call a speech that is yet to be spoken, still on paper? Wouldn't that just be "written speech"? That's why I made a distinction

First, I'd like to point out that you're talking about two different things. There's "general oral communication" speech, which is normally uncountable and doesn't take articles; it's what you were talking about originally. And there's the "formal address" speech, which is countable and must have an article; it's what you were talking about in the post I've quoted.

That said, I think it's redundant to say "spoken speech" with either meaning. With no other context, people will assume that either kind of speech is spoken. For a "formal address" speech, it's only when it isn't spoken or there's something distinctive about how it's spoken that descriptors are justified. So "a written speech" is valid but "a spoken speech" is not.

"General oral communication" speech would follow similar guidelines, though by definition it's even less likely to not be spoken. Some examples of proper usage: "continuously spoken speech", "loudly spoken speech", though you could rephrase these as just "continuous speech" and "loud speech".

There are a few scenarios where I can imagine using "spoken speech", but they're not common. 1) To explicitly contrast with a written speech (A teacher says to the class, "Please turn in your written speeches. Remember, you will give your spoken speeches tomorrow.") 2) When "speech" has been used in reference to sign language, and you want to refer to "spoken speech".