Discussion Group

[linguoboy]

But what about after /r/? This guy pronounces /ʃt/ in words such as "first" or "worst" as well.

That honestly sounds like a speech defect to me. (Or a Scottish accent--which is a different way of saying the same thing.)

[Kekāne‘āhē]

In English? I don't think so. The diphthong [ɛʊ̯] is very familiar to me from Catalan, and it doesn't sound like this.

Do you have the Canadian shift in your speech? There seems to be some disagreement on whether /ɛ/ is being lowered or retracted in the speech of young Ontarians, but either way it is being brought closer to /ʌ/, which according to some accounts is being both lowered and fronted. So it could well be that the first element in your MOUTH diphthong sounds identical to your DRESS vowel, but your DRESS vowel isn't necessarily [ɛ].

I don't have any Canadian shifting as far as I can tell. (I don't merge PALM and THOUGHT, which is the triggering step of the Canadian shift). I think I'm just mishearing the vowel.

[Luís]

But what about after /r/? This guy pronounces /ʃt/ in words such as "first" or "worst" as well.

That honestly sounds like a speech defect to me. (Or a Scottish accent--which is a different way of saying the same thing.)

Yeah, it could be.

Meanwhile I found out he's originally from a small town in Long Island.

[linguoboy]

Meanwhile I found out he's originally from a small town in Long Island.

Lon Island or Lawn Guyland?

[Mars80]

I have no Canadian raising in my speech. For Americans who have Canadian raising, do you pronounce "hire" and "higher" the same or different, do you rhyme "rider" and "spider" or do they have different vowels? I've read that some Americans with Canadian raising have [aɪ] in "higher" and [ʌɪ] in "hire". And also have [aɪ] in "rider" and [ʌɪ] in "spider".

[Kekāne‘āhē]

I have no Canadian raising in my speech. For Americans who have Canadian raising, do you pronounce "hire" and "higher" the same or different, do you rhyme "rider" and "spider" or do they have different vowels? I've read that some Americans with Canadian raising have [aɪ] in "higher" and [ʌɪ] in "hire". And also have [aɪ] in "rider" and [ʌɪ] in "spider".

I'm an American (from New Hampshire) with Canadian raising (of both /aɪ/ and /au/). I don't have it in spider or hire (i.e., rider and spider rhyme, and hire = higher). I know someone from upstate New York (right near the Canadian border) who has it in both of these though. A few additional common variables:

Words like "knives" that are derived from a word with Canadian raising ("knife") may retain the raised diphthong for some people.
Some people use the raised diphthong when there's an N between the /aɪ/ or /au/ and the unvoiced consonant, as in "pint".
Common phrases such as "high school" may be treated as a single word, and thus have raising.

I don't know what the distribution of any of these variants is, but I don't have any of them.

Regarding spider and hire - I suspect that anyone who raises "hire" must also raise "spider". In dialects with spider raising, the general pattern (if I remember correctly) is that /aɪ/ is raised when whenever it is not in the last syllable of a morpheme. I think "fire" raising is a result of a combination of this rule, and the fact that "fire" is often pronounced as two syllables. This is just conjecture though.

Edit: I have another question for people who answer Mars80's question: Do you have Canadian raising in "tripod" and "bicycle"? For me, "tripod" doesn't have it because it consists of two morphemes ("tri"+"pod"), and in my speech, the voiceless consonant must be within not only the same word as the /aɪ/ or /au/, but within the same morpheme. And "bicycle" is an exception to this for some reason, and has the raised diphthong. I suspect this is just a peculiarity of my speech, but I wasn't sure.

[linguoboy]

I have no Canadian raising in my speech. For Americans who have Canadian raising, do you pronounce "hire" and "higher" the same or different, do you rhyme "rider" and "spider" or do they have different vowels? I've read that some Americans with Canadian raising have [aɪ] in "higher" and [ʌɪ] in "hire". And also have [aɪ] in "rider" and [ʌɪ] in "spider".

I don't technically have Canadian raising, but I do have a more central vowel in spider than in rider.

I don't think hire has a substantially more central vowel than higher in my speech, but it is susceptible to smoothing whereas higher, being bimorphemic, isn't.

On the other hand, quiet when pronounced in one syllable (which happens in rapid speech) contrasts with quite.

Edit: I have another question for people who answer Mars80's question: Do you have Canadian raising in "tripod" and "bicycle"? For me, "tripod" doesn't have it because it consists of two morphemes ("tri"+"pod"), and in my speech, the voiceless consonant must be within not only the same word as the /aɪ/ or /au/, but within the same morpheme. And "bicycle" is an exception to this for some reason, and has the raised diphthong. I suspect this is just a peculiarity of my speech, but I wasn't sure.

I have centralisation in bicycle. Isn't the most likely explanation influence from bike, which--being a closed syllable ending in an unvoiced segment--is quite regularly centralised?

[razlem]

I need an adverb.

If you hate to love something (i.e. a guilty pleasure), it is "______ly loveable".

Do we have a good word for this?

[Bubulus]

I'd say something like "awfully loveable", "disgustingly loveable", "shockingly loveable", or "unfortunately loveable".

Interestingly, Google Chrome says <loveable> is a misspelling, suggesting <lovable> instead. Dictionary.com has an entry for <loveable>, but it just points to <lovable>... Yet <loveable> feels more correct to me.

[Koko]

Interestingly, Google Chrome says <loveable> is a misspelling, suggesting <lovable> instead. Dictionary.com has an entry for <loveable>, but it just points to <lovable>... Yet <loveable> feels more correct to me.

<lovable> looks more like /loʊ̯vɐbl/ than /lʌvʌbl/

[razboinicfoc9]

Hey guys, I need help... can someone help or teach me English... I mean grammar, i'm very bad! And I will teach you Romanian. Thank you.

Skype : dulman.mihai1
Gmail : crazymen121@gmail.com

[Vegoria]

Hi everyone!

Could somebody, please, explain to me what "to resurrect a zombie" means? I came across it in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=30245

Thanks in advance.

[Dormouse559]

"Zombie" in this case means a forum thread that has been inactive for a long time. And the poster was "resurrecting" the thread by writing in it around two years after the last post. Another word for doing something like this is "necroposting".

[Vegoria]

Thanks for your detailed exlanation, I'll remember it for sure now

[Vegoria]

Hi again guys

I came up with another question for you: is there any difference in meaning or at least connotation between "muzak", "piped music" and "elevator music"?

[linguoboy]

I came up with another question for you: is there any difference in meaning or at least connotation between "muzak", "piped music" and "elevator music"?

"Muzak" is a brand name originating in the USA, so its use may be dialect-specific in the same way as, for instance, Autocue or Sellotape.

"Piped music" is ambiguous. It could mean "piped in" or it could be "played on pipes". (The latter would more commonly be "pipe music", but the difference in the two words is small and easily lost in speech.) I also wouldn't understand it as a particular style of instrumental-pop-with-a-smooth-jazz-makeover the way I do "Muzak" and "elevator music". After all, you could just as easily pipe in gangsta rap or humppa.

[Vegoria]

Thank you, linguoboy, you really are of great help

[Aashna farheen]

Hello everyone

[am888]

go to skype with me
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skype: am888.ua

[Koko]

The amount of e's in native English morphemes

"I see. Well tell me when then"

Only one other vowel graph!