Scots

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Rom
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Scots

Postby Rom » 2005-10-03, 0:48

I'm trying to learn Scots, but I'm having trouble finding resources. Does anyone know of any good websites?

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Postby Stan » 2005-10-03, 1:46

If you're a native English speaker, I don't think there would be any point in learning it because it's so similar I can read things in it with no problem
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Postby Travis B. » 2005-10-03, 6:03

Stan wrote:If you're a native English speaker, I don't think there would be any point in learning it because it's so similar I can read things in it with no problem


I am a native English-speaker, and yet to me most written Scots is generally only half-understandable. Furthermore, from what I have heard from some individuals who actually have had contact with spoken Scots, spoken Scots is far less understandable to most native English-speakers than written Scots is. And even in that case, I have heard from many other individuals who natively speak English that they generally have trouble understanding written Scots in the first place.
Last edited by Travis B. on 2005-10-03, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stan » 2005-10-03, 22:55

Well I had only seen very few things in Scots, so that's why I had that impression:

http://www.scots-online.org/

this says :

Howp ye enjoy whit we hae tae offer...

which I can immediately translate in my head as :

Hope you enjoy what we have to offer...

but now I realize it's not as similar as I had thought :P
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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-04, 18:38

Around how many people speak Scots?

Is there a standard dialect or dialect spoken by a majority of the speakers?

Is there a general location/region where Scots is spoken?

Does it co-exist alongside Gàidhlig (within the same community/ies)?

Is Scots an official language of the UK? I haven't seen it in any listings.

Is Scots taught/used in educational settings, such as in primary, highschool, and/or uni?

Is Scots also spoken by Gàidhlig speakers, and vice versa?

Are there Scots native speakers, or are they (generally) native speakers of another language?

Is there any media broadcasting in Scots?

And last bu not least, where could a person hear Scots online?

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-04, 19:15

That's ok! Thanks for all the info. :D

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Postby Oleksij » 2005-10-04, 19:45

It's a braw day...

"braw" looks like Gaelic influence- "breá" is the Gaelic (at least Irish Gaelic) for "fine".
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Postby Car » 2005-10-04, 20:11

Daniel wrote:
gigant26 wrote:
It's a braw day...

"braw" looks like Gaelic influence- "breá" is the Gaelic (at least Irish Gaelic) for "fine".


In Scottish Gaelic, it is "brèagha" (pronounced roughly 'bray-uh'. But I'm not sure if it's a Gaelic loanword or just a pure coincidence. :roll:


Norwegian has "bra" with that meaning, IIRC it was loaned from Old Norse, at least from one language within that subgroup.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Postby Car » 2005-10-04, 20:38

Daniel wrote:Or Scots may have taken this word from Old Norse directly...


What I heard is that it's a direct loan.

BTW, "bairn" is also a loan, just compare it to Norwegian "barn" with the same meaning!
Please correct my mistakes!

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Postby Kirk » 2005-10-04, 21:01

Awesome intro to Scots, Daniel!! As the closest language* to English it's truly fascinating to compare :) I know this might be a bit of work, but I was wondering if you could eventually get some IPA up for some of the words--that'd be even more interesting.

Thank ye ;)


*I don't think we need to get into a big debate about its status but linguistically (excluding politics) most people would consider it a separate language, and that's what I'm going by here. Just wanted to say I'm not making any political statement by saying such a thing. I'm so far removed from any politics in the region anyway I have no incentive to think of it as one or the other so I'm just going by linguistic classification.
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Postby Stan » 2005-10-04, 21:25

What does Scots sound like? :wink:
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Postby Kirk » 2005-10-04, 23:06

Daniel wrote:
svenska84 wrote:Awesome intro to Scots, Daniel!! As the closest language* to English it's truly fascinating to compare :) I know this might be a bit of work, but I was wondering if you could eventually get some IPA up for some of the words--that'd be even more interesting.

Thank ye ;)


Yeah, I'll be more than glad to try and add.. Oh, what about XSampa? Are you accustomed with XSampa, too? If not... :?


[j{ Ek"s{mp@ w3`ks faIn] ;)

Daniel wrote:Now I'm going to attempt to add the XSampa pronunciations besides the common Scots words above. 8)


Awesome. I just saw you put it up there! Thanks :)

Daniel wrote:
svenska84 wrote:*I don't think we need to get into a big debate about its status but linguistically (excluding politics) most people would consider it a separate language, and that's what I'm going by here. Just wanted to say I'm not making any political statement by saying such a thing. I'm so far removed from any politics in the region anyway I have no incentive to think of it as one or the other so I'm just going by linguistic classification.


Yeah, me too. some people (even native speakers) consider it simply a dialect, others a separate language. I respect their opinions. It's tiring to have a heated debate on whether it's dialect or language cos you're never going to reach a conclusion anyway. It's like politics - you can argue about it but can never reach a conclusion. :wink:


Exactly--I agree.
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Alcadras » 2005-10-05, 12:55

it really looks like english but i am afraid of pronunciation :D

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Postby skye » 2005-10-05, 15:25

What sounds do the weird y and @ stand for?

I'm sorry if there already is a topic where the phonetic symbols are explained, I just didn't know where to look.

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Postby skye » 2005-10-05, 16:03

Thank you, Daniel. I find this thread very interesting, but unfortunately I'm preoccupied with other things at the moment. It's good you made this thread a sticky, so it'll be easy to find when I have time to read it in more detail.

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Postby Karavinka » 2005-10-08, 14:44

Daniel, this is an interesting language. (Actually, I didn't even know there was difference between Scottish English and Scots..) Keep posting Scots things :)

I found this link helpful as well.. http://www.scotsgate.com/scotsgate01.pdf
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

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Postby Oleksij » 2005-10-08, 18:53

Fit lik ma laaddie o faan yer ae quinie, ma quinie? Aam jist tyaavin awa the noo. Ye ken, that is sic ae glaikit thing tae say an aa thenk aat yer ainlie actin it an that is no ae guid thing tae dae, ken. Aa dinna thenk aat abodie cud unnerstaun Scoats - maistlie faan spak.

Hoo caan ye reid Scoats faan abodie writes hit different oniefa acaus thonnas nane ae o common wey an sae monie speikweys? The grammair is gey different no ainlie in speikin bit awso in writin sae ilkane is differnt sae abodie canna gang an blether unnerstaunin ilkabodie.

Noo tell me faan ye hae unnerstuid it acaus ye hae said aat abodie maun hae kenshap o the leid. Och faan ye div then ye micht caan dae it.

Sae noo ye canna say aat ye caan unnerstaun Scoats faan ye hivnae gaun here afore. Here is faai aa thenk aat yer speikin ae muckle o skitter!

Aaricht the noo, aam awa!

I have to say that Scots is more different than I thought. From all above, I could hardly "unnerstaun" what it says. Though, I'd say, that the Scottish accent in which Scottish people speak, is, actually pretty much what you call "Scoats". But it doesn't mean I can understand it!! 8)
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Is this Scots?

Postby Gormur » 2005-11-10, 22:50

Is this Scots, rather than Scots Gaelic?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/ ... lsay.shtml

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Re: Is this Scots?

Postby Gormur » 2005-11-11, 20:20

Daniel wrote:
Gormur wrote:Is this Scots, rather than Scots Gaelic?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/ ... lsay.shtml


It's Scots.

Scots-Gaelic is not spoken in the Orkney or Shetland and have in fact never been spoken there before at all. :)

This is because these islands were originally Norse stronghold - it was part of Norway until about the 14th century! The present dialect still used in these islands is a various of Scots with distinct Norn vocabulary even though Norn (which is a close relative of Faroese) has been extinct since roughly the 16th century when the Scots language was imposed on the native Norn-speaking Orkney and Shetland islanders. The accent that you hear is actually the remnant of the Norn speech!


Yeah, I've heard about Norn, but I had thought everyone spoke only English on the Shetlands. And what about this term "Shetlandic"? Is this in reference to a dialect of sorts? Wow, Scots (at least this variety of it) sounds a bit like Icelandic and Faroese. I guess that would make sense though...

:)
Last edited by Gormur on 2005-11-11, 20:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gormur » 2005-11-11, 20:22

Can you understand this dialect of Scots? Are all dialects intelligible?


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