Scots

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Ken77
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Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Ken77 » 2010-02-07, 20:46

Hi,i'm hoping that someone on this forum can help me find the answer to something that i've been wanting to know for years...was Gaelic ever spoken in Dumbarton? The reason i'd like to know the true answer to this is to settle an argument.My girlfriend rants every now and then about the English stealing our identity and language,which she says was origionally Gaelic.I disagreed with her,saying that it was never spoken in this part of Scotland :nope: ,and that it was only in the North or on the Islands.I've never been able to get an educated answer from anyone,i've asked a few people and they either say yes or no,but i think they're just guessing.A few years ago,the sign at Dumbarton Central train station changed to one which had it written in English and Gaelic which maybe hints that it was,but i remember at the time some people(i was one of them)saying that it was a complete waste of time and money.My girlfriend says the clue as to why English wasn't the original language here is in the name! Fair point,but i still don't think it was Gaelic.Can anyone help please?Thanks,Kenny.

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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Sean of the Dead » 2010-02-07, 20:56

Wrong forum buddy. :ohwell: :P
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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Quevenois » 2010-02-07, 23:24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton

Looks like they spoke (once) a language close to Welsh, many centuries ago.
Now I dunno if that language (long dead) was replaced by Gaelic and then by Scots and English, or directly by Scots and English...
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Eoghan » 2010-02-07, 23:51

Quevenois wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbarton

Looks like they spoke (once) a language close to Welsh, many centuries ago.
Now I dunno if that language (long dead) was replaced by Gaelic and then by Scots and English, or directly by Scots and English...


The name is a Gaelic version of The Britons' Burgh, suggesting that the first language in Dumbarton was a Brythonic one. Gaelic however has been spoken in Dunbarton for ages, and the name is indeed Gaelic to begin with, from Dùn Breatainn.
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Albeit the Scot in me is of the Western stock and the red of the Cairngorms, the heather and the Lewissian gneiss, the Viking in me was there when you uttered the first word of your leid.

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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Quevenois » 2010-02-09, 0:39

Gaelic however has been spoken in Dunbarton for ages, and the name is indeed Gaelic to begin with, from Dùn Breatainn.


The element "dun-" existed in "pre-historical Celtic" (it's common in France, for instance, in placenames that derive from Gaulish), so it's not sure it's Gaelic rather than some "older" language.
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

Ken77
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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Ken77 » 2010-02-09, 22:13

Thanks you to everyone who has responded,i really appreciate it.That's very inetresting,that there could be a Welsh or French connection,i thought it was just a case of Gaelic or not Gaelic,but it seems it's not as black & white as that.I'm still not really sure what the conclusive answer is though,but thanks again to everyone who replied.Kenny.

P.S I'm sorry i thought the Scots forum was the Gaelic one too.I see though that there's a seperate Gaelic one,i might put my question on that.

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Re: Gaelic in Dumbarton area

Postby Quevenois » 2010-02-10, 0:26

That's very inetresting,that there could be a Welsh or French connection,i thought it was just a case of Gaelic or not Gaelic,


There's no Welsh or French connection, just a language close to the ancestor of Welsh. The "dun-" element did exist in Gaulish but it did exist in all the antique Celtic languages, probably. No relation to French, France didn't exist at that time, nor French.
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Pronouciation of the name Rankeillor

Postby KatiaB » 2010-02-24, 9:04

hello,
I'm translating a book which takes place in Edinburgh, and I'm having trouble transcripting the street name Rankeillor.
I would be grateful for your help!
Thanks in advance,
Katia

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Deep peace translaction to scottish gaelic

Postby sanhathaway » 2010-08-07, 14:17

Hello, I'm looking for the Scottish Gaelic translation for this poem. I have only found the Irish Gaelic translation. If anyone can help it would be greatly appriciated. Thank you Sandra

Deep peace of the running wave to you
Deep peace of the flowing air to you
Deep peace of the quiet earth to you
Deep peace of the shining stars to you
Deep peace of the gentle night to you
Moon and stars pour their healing light on you
Deep peace of Christ the light of the world to you
Deep peace of Christ to you

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Re: Small Scots Wordlist, with norse/germanic+English

Postby Aleco » 2010-11-11, 15:00

Scots - Norwegian - English (of Scots word) - English (of Norwegian word)

keek - kikke - look - look
ken - kjenne - know - know (a person)
dook - dukke - bathe/duck - duck/go underwater
plouk - plukke - pimple/spot - pick (v)/almost nothing (n)
puggled - ???
crabbit - ???
howff - hoff - haunt/meeting-place - a monarch's personal subjects (Norse: farm)
glieket - glikke - stupid/gormless - turn out the wrong way (v) / smt tech. coming to a standstill
muckle - mykje (Norse: mykill) - great/big - much/a lot
guff - guffe - crap or unpleasant smell - gross, often thick liquid
ben - ???
hoot - hore - whore - whore
midden - ???
naebuddy - ???
radge - rase - mad - to be furious / to fall apart
baffies - ???
hae - ha - have - have
napper - nappe/neppe - head - put together / to jerk
nicht - natt - night - night
feert - fælt - afraid - horrible
blaw - blåse - blow - blow
peenie - ???
gan - gå (Norse: ganga) - go - walk
een - øyne - eyes - eyes
dee - dø (Norse: dey(ja)) - die - die
erse - ???
foosty - ???
baith - både - both - both
craw - kråke - crow - crow
brae - brå - road on hill - sudden / steep
sook - suge - suck - suck
doon - ???
breeks - bukser - pants - pants
wifie - viv - (aging) woman - old wife (arch)
heid - ???
poke - pose - bag - (plastic, paper) bag
drookit - drukken - soaked - drunk / soaked (arch) (drukne = drown)
dicht - ???
heifer - fe - cow/big woman - cow/idiot
jobie - ???
bogie - buse - snot - firm snot
bairn - barn - child - child
braw - bra - fine - fine/great/good
kirk - kirke - church - church
seek - sjuk - sick - sick
Native (no) Fluent (en-us)
Understands (sv) Understands (dk) Studied (ja)
Mom's side of the family (fo) Study now and then (et) Curious about (cs) Playing with (ga)

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Re: Basic Scots that you need to know!

Postby Gibbermeister » 2011-02-08, 11:06

I'm from Lanarkshire, south-west Scotland. My first language is also Scots, although I speak a number of others too. Anyway, many years ago I worked with a 'loon' from Buchan (NE Scotland) and I swear it took me a month just to manage to understand HALF of what he was saying.

The thing about Scots is the archaic features it preserves.

Many of its vowel sounds are the same or similar to Middle English sounds. English has evolved away from Scots in that respect.

It has also absorbed a far higher proportion of Scandinavian loans - I took Scandinavian dictionaries once and found a whole host of my dialect words in them. (Brambles, tae sconse, tae scad, shirikin and the like.)

Then there's the higher frequency of continuous tenses under Gaelic influence.

I think Scots' greatest word though is 'scunnert'. :wink:

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Gaelg
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Re: Is anybody here actually a NATIVE speaker of Scots?

Postby Gaelg » 2011-06-06, 11:31

Ah um :D wee bit late tae post bit still =D

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Gaelg
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby Gaelg » 2011-06-06, 11:47

I know this thread is outdated but hey :D

The Scottish Government considers Lallands (central) and Doric (North-East) to be regional languages, and they are even considering putting up to 60 Scoats speakers into classrooms to help encourage the use of Scoats.

I personally think it's a dialect now, in the past definitely a language, but you only really see Glaswegians, and some Aberdonians with the strong proper accents and who use proper scots words rather than english words. I come from quite a Scots speaking area, but people here classify it as "ned speak" or "slang" something undeseriable. I think this is a common attitude in Scotland that needs to change.

I welcome the Scottish Governments attempts to bring Scots into the media, classroom and even into exam papers but unless they start teaching it without heavy influence from english, it's going to continue to become closer and closer to English. I think as well the decline of Scottish words is due to the fact many parents teach their children that "cannae, dinnae, wulnae, huvnae" are unacceptable and you must say "cannot, do not etc".

Anyhoo, a'v goat tae go fur the messages noo :)

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Translate in Scottish Gaelic

Postby Scottishkate » 2011-09-13, 21:59

I am getting a tattoo and wanted to have it translated into Scottish Gaelic

"half of a whole. Forever one soul."

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Re: Translate in Scottish Gaelic

Postby linguoboy » 2011-09-13, 22:04

Then perhaps you should post a request in the Scottish Gaelic forum. This is the forum for Scots, the Germanic language which originated in the Scottish Lowlands.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-01-01, 17:13

Linguistic diversity, whether you call it language or dialect variation, is an amazing phenomenon and if by calling it a language you can get people to take it more seriously, then you should.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Ciarán12
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Standardised Spelling?

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-01-03, 20:53

I was just curious, does Scots have a standardized spelling system? I have sometimes seen the same word spelled differently (in the same text, presumably by the same author). Or at least, I think it was the same word. From the context (something which I have to use a lot when reading Scots as I don't actually speak it) it seemed to be the same word. I wish I could give an example now of the kind of thing I mean. Anyway, just wondering.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: Standardised Spelling?

Postby DelBoy » 2012-02-10, 16:37

As far as I know, no there isn't.
What's more, I don't think there is even a standardised version of spoken Scots - it's different from place to place.
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

Labharfainn níos mó faoi, dá dtuigfinn an bhrí...

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Re: Basic Scots that you need to know!

Postby Midnight » 2012-03-16, 18:30

Nice. Is it possible to learn Scots if I'm not living around the area? :) I would like to know some more, but there are not too many native speakers and I don't know of any resources.

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Re: Scots

Postby Lauren » 2013-02-05, 10:43

My love for Scots is back. :mrgreen: I really need to learn it. If anyone has an interest in Scots, particularly the Doric dialect, I have a lot of resources for it, so contact me. :)
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