Plattdüütsch/ Nedersaksisch: Low Saxon discussion group

[frank74]

Hello all. This looks like a nice forum indeed! I hope to learn a lot here, being amongst other language-freaks (I thought I was the only one, *sniff*).

Coming from the Liemers, a part of the Netherlands (near the German border), I'm very interested in this forum about Lower Saxon. Until recently I thought Liemers' was a form of Lower Saxon too, but I discovered it was not. Though it is called 'platt' too, it's not a part of Lower Saxon but considered a form of Frankisch (how is it called in English?).

That's why I wanted to reply to this post:

In wikipedia there is map depicting the approximate language area:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieders%C3 ... he_Sprache
In the Netherlands the yellow should stretch a little further to the west, as it also includes a region called the "Veluwe".

I'm sorry, but Veluws is the same in that it isn't Saxon but Frankisch.

Well, other sources indicate that it is a Low Saxon dialect, for example http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veluws
Some say the border between Low Franconian and Low Saxon is the river IJssel, but the dialects on both sides of this river are very similar (Veluws is spoken to the west of it). But the more you move to the West, the more Low Franconian** ("Standard Dutch") it will become.
In Scholtmeijer 2002*, Veluws is also called a transitional dialect (overgangsdialect). The language 'border' consists of a series of isoglosses, i.e. borders of a part of the language, grammar and pronunciation. "... ter hoogte van de Utrechtse Heuvelrug en het Gooi eindigt het Nedersaksische taalgebied definitief".
So to conclude, we may be right both, the yellow stretches a little further to the west, but becomes lighter and lighter...
*Scholtmeijer, Harrie 2002, "Utrechts, Veluws en Flevolands", within series: van der Seijs, Nicoline (red.) "Taal in stad en land", Sdu uitgevers, Den Haag
**(Neder-)Frankisch is dus (Low) Franconian. Volgens eerder genoemd boek is die term aan het uitsterven, maar ik kom hem nog wel heel vaak tegen voor de verzameling Hollands, Utrechts, Brabants, Zuid-Gelders, Vlaams etc.

[frank74]

Seeing some of the posts in Plaatdüütsch, I can summarize that is (at least wroten) a mixture between German and Dutch, but, can anyone write a rough pronunciation of it?

Pronunciation varies from region to region, but for a rough idea you coud listen to the examples from the city of Bremen on this (German) site: http://www.radiobremen.de/online/platt/kurs/ (scroll down, and you will find the units ("Lektion") with texts and sound files).

[frank74]

Niedersachsen auf Platt:
The official website of the state of Lower Saxony is also available in Low Saxon (together with German, English, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, French, Dutch and Polish)! Have a look:
http://www.international.niedersachsen.de/pd/home.html
You can even download the a Platt version of the constition:
http://www.international.niedersachsen. ... rfaten.pdf

[wilsonsamm]

Ik skriev irjenwat hier, sodat ik meen Plattdüütsch üb. Hebb ik diet skriebt riktij?

Un wie is de Wortstellung op Platt?
Sünd de Geslekte vun de Nomen lijk op Hochdüütsk?

[Vertaler]

Ik kan blaus van 't mönsterlänske Platt vertellen, owwer düt het nog drie Geslekters.
De Woardestelling is jüst äs op Haukdüütsk.

[spriltar]

See http://plattdeutsch.hcjb.org/ for some info and a lot of audio in mennonite plattdeutch. The "wie äwa ons" program is a nice source to mennonite news and history in plattdeutch, and by far the least "religious" of the programs available on the site.

I recognize a lot of low saxon in my own mother tongue norwegian, so I really hope this forum can be revived...

By the way, can anyone with sufficient knowledge start a forum on the friesian dialects? Or recommend an audio-rich site in friesian?

[lyric]

Hello Plattdüütsch speakers,

Your help is needed to complete the list of words of encouragement: http://home.unilang.org/wiki3/index.php ... ouragement

i.e. words you say to yourself or others when trying to accomplish a hard task,
like for example learning a new language .

Examples: "You can make it.", "Go-ahead! ", "Go!"

How do you say in Plattdüütsch?

(When possible in original script and English transcript)

Thanks,
Lyric

[klabauter]

Moin leeve Lüü,
ik mark nu erst dat dat hier 'n Platt-Forum gifft. Ik bün sülms bi dat vun miene Mudder to lehrn un har woll Lust 'n beten wat över de Grammatik to schrieven, wenn ik de Tied finn. Is denn noch een daar?

Finally I realize that there is a Platt-Forum on this side (I've been lurking for a while). I'm not a native speaker but I'm learning it from my mother, so I think I could write something about the grammar, when I find some time. Is anybody still here?

Ik skriev irjenwat hier, sodat ik meen Plattdüütsch üb. Hebb ik diet skriebt riktij?

Ik schriev (jichtens)wat hier, (so)dat ik mien Platt öv. Hebb ik düt richtig schreben?

Nee
man wenn du wullt, denn maak maal wieder!
Dat weer al good, un verkehrt schrieben kannst du egentlich gaar nich, gifft ja keene Regeln to.

I recognize a lot of low saxon in my own mother tongue norwegian, so I really hope this forum can be revived...

Du meenst sowat as:
Ik snack Platt
Jeg snacker Norsk (?)
I speak English
Ich spreche deutsch

Wenn du Lust hest, denn schööt wi daar 'n egen' Stremel för opmaaken, dat kunn intressant ween.

If you like we should open an other thread for it – something like "Low Saxon and scandinavian languages" - it could be interesting.

[klabauter]

Off the top of my head there are:

Man to! - Go ahead! Keep going! Go on!
Do dat man! - Do it!
Laat den Kopp ne hangen! - Keep your head up! (lit. let the head not hang)
Dat kriegt wi torecht! - We can make it!
Wees ne bang! - Don't be afraid!
Loos! - Go!

[lyric]

Moin moin Klabauter-Man,

Off the top of my head there are:

Man to! - Go ahead! Keep going! Go on!
Do dat man! - Do it!
Laat den Kopp ne hangen! - Keep your head up! (lit. let the head not hang)
Dat kriegt wi torecht! - We can make it!
Wees ne bang! - Don't be afraid!
Loos! - Go!

I will add them to the wiki.

Schööndank!!
Lyric

[klabauter]

och, daar nich för

[stordragon]

http://www1.ndr.de/kultur/plattdeutsch/ ... ten30.html

http://myradio.de/index.html?channel=22 ... kat2=Radio

http://www1.ndr.de/kultur/plattdeutsch/ ... html?C=all

---------------------´n plattdüütsches wöörbook

(http://www1.ndr.de/kultur/plattdeutsch/woerterbuch/index.html?QUERY=Tohuussied&SUBMITQUERY=Suchen
"Tohuussied"="Tohuus"+"sied"="Zuhause"+"Seite"="Heimatseite"="Homepage")

Üm mehr info över de hütige spraaksituatschoon in de Nedderdüütschsprakige Regionen to höörn kriegen kunn man sick ok an de folgende websieden wennen:

http://www1.ndr.de/kultur/plattdeutsch/ ... hte34.html
"Plattdüütsch vundaag"

http://www1.ndr.de/kultur/plattdeutsch/ ... tt710.html
"..in Regionen, wo auch heute noch viel plattdeutsch gesprochen wird."

http://www.boote-forum.de/archive/index ... 30490.html
"Egentlich snackt de mehrsten Lüüd in Hamborg vundaag Hoochdüütsch, besünners de Lüüd, de richtig in de Stadt wahnen doot. Man op’t Land, wat to Hamborg höört, dor snackt se ok noch Platt, also in Veerlannen oder ok in’t Ole Land."

[stordragon]

Volkert Ipsen: "De Deerns vun 't Gigin"(Musikmaschine Records)

Quellseite: hier.

[kuneli]

Moin,moin beste friendn,
Ick snack so'n Dijalekt.Dat is de Spraack, watte miin Mamme un häre Mamme brückten,also miin Ooma.Oawer ick dacht et sii ien düütsk dijalekt. Is det egenlick iene Spraack?Is där ejn Spelling därför?
Nü, ick sriif det soas ick et snack. Ick woar sehr lockig to sien, dat där ien Eck is öwer Platt. Ick hüb et tofallick seen,as ick binnesurfte, nü dette woart is een Neologismus,he!!
Det sol een seer sköns Forum säjn,woar menske op Platt sriifen könnten.So könnten wii eenandern helepen om sriifn to leere
Ick bün half Griechin(?), so wohn ick in Griecknlan en förfolgens hüb ick nit de möjghlickheth min Platt to öwn.
So, ick muut nü goon. Veel grutn ut Griekenlan oan allelüüd, Danie

[dunkelwald]

Es ist immer die Frage:
Was ist eine eigene Sprache und was ist ein Dialekt einer bereits existierenden Sprache?
Ich bin der Meinung, dass das Konzept "Sprache" im Sinne von "Einzelsprache" völlig aufzugeben ist, es gibt Dialektkontinua und sonst nichts, zumindest wenn man die Dialekte im klassischen Sinne betrachtet und nicht die zunehmend verbreitete Standardsprache, die ich leider nur sprechen kann.
Es ist allerdings schön zu sehen, dass solche Dialekte auch Sprecher in anderen Teilen der Welt haben.

[Evenfall]

Yay, I've found this thread!
Today I found some material online and I decided to try to teach it to myself since I do understand almost everything in Low Saxon, but I don't speak it myself.
Any others here who'd like to try to write in Low Saxon?

[Lauren]

What did you find for learning it? Do you mean a course or what?

[Evenfall]

I found vocabulary and an overview on grammar. But it's written in German so it's only helpful if you understand that, I guess :/
http://www.plattschool.de/Material.htm

[Lauren]

Thanks. Too bad those aren't very comprehensive, though.

[linguoboy]

Wi sünd beid in't lieke Boot! Ik kann 't lesen sunner groter Probleem, awer dat Schrieven is 'n annere Saak!