Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

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linguanima
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Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-07-23, 12:04

I'm opening a thread here for this interesting but long-ignored Turkic language spoken by 10 million people living mainly in the Xinjiang Autonomous Region in West China (otherwise known as East Turkestan or Chinese Turkestan). Here I'll post links to Uyghur language websites, music and lyrics (if I can find any!), Uyghur-related issues and hopefully in the near future, organised Uyghur lessons!

I only know three universities in the world where Uyghur language courses are offered: University of Ankara, Indiana University and Harvard University. Indiana University has a Center for Languages of the Central Asian Region (CeLCAR) which has a very well written series of Uyghur textbooks, as well as textbooks for other Central Asian languages, namely Tajik, Uzbek and Pashto. The Tajik textbooks have recently been published by Georgetown University Press and they have told me the Uyghur textbooks, currently only designed for internal use, are going to be published by the same publishing house in late 2009/early 2010. I will inform you guys when they're out. As for now, their website has quite a lot of learning materials already: the preview of a good part of the textbook and some multimedia files.

Currently the best, and probably the only, Uyghur textbook in the English language is Spoken Uyghur, by Reinhard F. Hahn, published by University of Washington Press. Google Books allows you to look at almost the entire book, which is very well written, serving both academic and practical purposes. The extensive and erudite introduction describes the Uyghur language in the light of historical and comparative linguistics; I especially like the phonetics section which gives a detailed description of the pronunciation of each sound and its allophones. There are 15 units of dialgues to satisfy communicational needs. However, if you have never touched any Turkic language before, or you are unfamiliar with basic linguistic terms, this book can be a little daunting and esoteric. But it's the only one available before CeLCAR releases its Uyghur textbooks.

The website http://www.uighurlanguage.com is a good place to start learning the basics about the Uyghur language, culture and people. There is an alphabet section, a brief introduction to the grammar (although somewhat incomplete), comparison between Uyghur and Turkish and between Uyghur and Uzbek, a wide range of sample dialogues and short texts for practising reading the language, and a huge collection of Uyghur music videos.

Ok, here's all for the kick-off. I'll keep updating this thread.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-07-23, 13:05

First things first. The Alphabet. Omniglot has a very good introduction to the writing system(s) of Uyghur:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/uyghur.htm

Uyghur has adopted three alphabets in history: the traditional Perso-Arabic script, Cylliric, and Latin. Currently the Perso-Arabic script is the most common one and is the only script used in Xinjiang. The Latin alphabet sometimes acts as an auxiliary script. The most striking characteristic of the Uyghur script is that every sound is represented in writing, including vowels. As everyone knows that the Arabic writing system only represents consonants and long vowels. But Uyghur writes every single vowel. The only place where Uyghur doesn't make a written distinction is between the central high vowel ı (as in Turkish) and the front high vowel i. They are both represented by ى. However, since their occurrence is governed by vowel harmony rules, there's normally no confusion.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-07-24, 5:31

Last edited by linguanima on 2009-08-13, 7:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby lishaoxuan » 2009-07-24, 5:49

Cheers on the making of this thread!!!!!

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-07-30, 8:14

Another Uyghur song with nice beats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5DOlxRin8M
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby Myeong » 2009-08-04, 13:15

linguanima wrote:I only know three universities in the world where Uyghur language courses are offered: University of Ankara, Indiana University and Harvard University.


So this is not even taught at all in any university in China...
Don't you find that at least a little bit disturbing? :shock:

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby peterlin » 2009-08-04, 19:04

Myeong wrote:
linguanima wrote:I only know three universities in the world where Uyghur language courses are offered: University of Ankara, Indiana University and Harvard University.


So this is not even taught at all in any university in China...


How do you know? Linguanima only listed those places he's sure were offering Uyghur courses, I don't think his post was a survey of all the world's universities. But anyway, see this thread over at the Lonely Planet forum (basically a list of 3 unis in Xinjiang offering Uyghur instruction for foreigners).

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby Myeong » 2009-08-04, 19:55

peterlin wrote:How do you know? Linguanima only listed those places he's sure were offering Uyghur courses, I don't think his post was a survey of all the world's universities. But anyway, see this thread over at the Lonely Planet forum (basically a list of 3 unis in Xinjiang offering Uyghur instruction for foreigners).


I don't know, I assumed, since Linguanima seems to be quite knowledgeable about such matters and said "I only know three universities in the world", therefore also including China. From your link, it seems I assumed he knew more than he actually does. :mrgreen:

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-06, 8:49

Myeong wrote:
peterlin wrote:How do you know? Linguanima only listed those places he's sure were offering Uyghur courses, I don't think his post was a survey of all the world's universities. But anyway, see this thread over at the Lonely Planet forum (basically a list of 3 unis in Xinjiang offering Uyghur instruction for foreigners).


I don't know, I assumed, since Linguanima seems to be quite knowledgeable about such matters and said "I only know three universities in the world", therefore also including China. From your link, it seems I assumed he knew more than he actually does. :mrgreen:


Shame. I totally forgot about China. Surely Uyghur is offered at Minzu University of China in Xinjiang.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-13, 3:34

I'm going to repost this link:

http://tilachar.uyghurlar.biz/index.php?newlang=rus

Obviously not of much use to those who don't know Russian or care to learn it through Cyrillic, but a valuable resource nonetheless.

There's a fairly sizeable Uyghur diaspora living in the Central Asian republics, especially Kazakhstan. Here is one of their better-known representatives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp6XGaBR-0I

edit: and the lyrics:

«ҚАЛДИМ ЯЛҒУЗ» Мурат Насыров

Һәммини билмәй кәттиң сән
Қалдим ялғуз десәң.
Қалдим ялғуз йәнә
Муһәббәт маңа
Бу дунияда қалдим ялғуз…

Сөзлиримни кимгә дәймән
Асманға қарап.
Сөзлириңни унтимаймән
Жүригимдә сақлап.
Сөзлириңни тапалмаймән
Нахшамда ейтсам.
Сени ойлап чидимаймән
Жүригимни бәрсәм.

Юлтузум, кәчүргин мени
Йоруқ болсун түнүм.
Сәнсиз болмайду күн
Жүригим мениң
Билсәң сән үчүн —
Қалдим ялғуз.

Сөзлиримни кимгә дәймән
Асманға қарап.
Сөзлириңни унтимаймән
Жүригимдә сақлап.
Сөзлириңни тапалмаймән
Нахшамда ейтсам,
Сени ойлап чидимаймән,
Жүригимни бәрсәм.

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-13, 7:00

linguanima wrote:Some Uyghur songs I like:

Adargül


Beautiful song.

The lyrics:

ئادارگۈل

لاچىن سوققان توشقاننىڭ، دادەي ۋاي ئادارگۈل
جاڭگالدا ئۇۋاسى بار، دوست ئادارگۈل
بىزدەك غەرپ مۇساپىرنىڭ، دادەي ۋاي ئادارگۈل
بۇ يۇرتتا نېمەسى بار.

ئانامغا نېمە دەپ يىغلاي،
ئاتامغا نېمە دەپ يىغلاي،
ئېتىمنىڭ ئالدىدىن ئاشقان،
ساماندەك سارغىيىپ يىغلاي.

ئاتاسى بارمۇ توشقاننىڭ.
ئاناسى بارمۇ توشقاننىڭ،
بۇ يۇرتتا نېمەسى بار،
بىزدەك بەختى قاچقاننىڭ؟


I found this translation here but the Uyghur words don't quite match up:

Adargul

(Qeshqer kheliq nakhshisi)
[UYGHUR]

Atamgha neme dep yighlay, anamgha neme dep yighlay

Atning aldidin ashghan samandk sarghayip yighlay.

Lachin soqqan toshqaning janggalda uwas bar

Meningdek bir musapirning bu yurtta nemisi bar?

♥ ♥ ♥

Adargul

(Kashgar traditional song)
[ENGLISH]

What shall I cry to my father, what shall I cry to my mother

I cry like the yellowed straw left before your horse.

When the hawk goes hunting the rabbit has its lair in the desert

What does a wanderer like me have in this place?


but from this and uyghurdictionary.org we can attempt a translation:

The rabbit hunted by the hawk
Has its home in the forest (? janggal = forest according to uyghurdic)
A strange traveller like us
What does he have in this place?

What will I cry to my mother?
What will I cry to my father?
I cry like the yellowed
straw before my horse.

Does the rabbit have a father?
Does the rabbit have a mother?
What does he have in this place,
The one whose luck ran out like us?

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-13, 9:14

Oh wow :shock: thank you so much zhiguli for your contributions!!! You must be a connoisseur of Turkic languages!! :D Please help me make this informal Uyghur subforum better!!

I've started learning Uyghur seriously with a textbook. Before long, hopefully, I'll be able to organise my materials and post elementary lessons here so everyone can learn this beautiful language together with me!

Now one problem should be resolved before everything starts - the problem of transcription. There have been too many attempts to transcribe Uyghur with Latin letters and the idiosyncratic versions only lead to confusion. The Chinese even went so far as to suggest ‘x’ for the ‘sh’ sound and ‘q’ for the ‘ch’ sound, as if it was Mandarin pinyin! Here on Unilang I propose a single, standard transcription for Uyghur as discussed below. Criticisms are always welcome.

First of all, I propose that the principles of Latinising Uyghur should be 1. the transcription should be simple and aesthetically pleasing; and we should avoid digraphs as much as possible; 2. it should show its Turkic characteristics. So we should look to other Turkic languages which have succeeded in Latinising their writing systems for examples.

I suggest that we transcribe ‘sh’ ش as ş and ‘ch’ چ as ç, following the examples of Turkish. Letter ‘c’ should take the same value as in Turkish – voiced alveolar affricate while letter ‘j’ takes the value of voiced alveolar fricative (as in French ‘bonjour’).

As for the pair غ and خ (voiced and voiceless velar fricative), I suggest that we use the Turkish ğ and the Azeri x respectively. The Turkish ğ, although having no phonetic value in the modern language, is the remnant of an old sound that used to be found in the language and was lost in the history of language evolution. Since the sound is well alive in Modern Uyghur, ğ deserves to be reassigned its old value when it’s used in Uyghur. A good example is the word çağ (time) which exists in both Turkish and Uyghur; the ğ is silent in the former but clearly pronounced in the latter. Different from the Turkish ğ, the Uyghur ğ can start a word, as in ğam ‘sorrow’ (غام) (the Turkish cognate is ‘gam’). There’s nothing wrong with ‘kh’ representing the voiceless velar fricative, as many people do when transcribing Persian, but adopting the Azeri x follows the principle of avoiding digraphs. Moreover, letter ‘x’ is itself the traditional symbol for the voiceless velar fricative: it ‘cognate letters’ are used to represent this sound in Greek and Cyrillic alphabets. Since Azeri, a Turkic language, also uses it, we should follow the example.

I also suggest that we use the Azeri ‘upside down e’, ə, to represent the mid-open front vowel /æ/which occurs in both Azeri and Uyghur. Most transcription systems don’t distinguish between /æ/ and /e/ in Uyghur, which I find very misleading and irresponsible. They sound rather similar on their own but depending on the phonological context, one can sound more open and the other can sound more close. It is absolutely necessary to make a distinction in writing, as the Arabic system and the Cyrillic system both do. As I said, we look to Azeri because it is a Turkic language, and we need something simple and easy to write. If it was not for this reason, umlaut ä or æ would satisfy perfectly. Phoneticians would complain about the confusion with the IPA symbol for the schwa, but writing is different from IPA symbols that always have to stay in brackets. Since Azeri uses it for both its Latin and Cyrillic versions of writing, we can be confident about assigning this value to a letter that looks like an IPA symbol.

There is only one potential digraph left, ‘ng’, which is commonly used in many languages to represent the velar nasal stop. Since it’s a convention to use it in languages based on the Latin-alphabet we could well adopt it in transcribing Uyghur. However, confusion arises when it becomes ambisyllabic. In Uyghur, the velar nasal stop remains intact when it is in the coda position of the previous syllable while occupying simultaneously the onset position of the following syllable. It does not break up to n-g as the orthography would visually suggest. For example, the word yengi ‘new’ (cf. Turkish ‘yeni’) is read as ‘ye-ngi’ (the same pronunciation can also be broken down into two syllables as ‘yeng-i’ since it’s ambisyllabic, but no gap is heard), never ‘yen-gi’. However, since visual perception affects oral execution, learners of Uyghur or children would be confused about the pronunciation. Writing it as yeng’i would be worse, since it’d suggest a glottal stop between yeng and i. The Arabic writing system deals with it well, using only one single letter ڭ for this phoneme, and so does the Cyrillic alphabet which Uyghur briefly employed (unfortunately my keyboard doesn’t have this letter, but you can refer to the lyrics posted by zhiguli, where the velar nasal sound is represented by the Russian ‘n’ with a hook). So we should basically use the Latin letter ‘n’ and add a diacritic to it. The Spanish ñ is used by a lot of Native American languages to represent this sound, which I would not suggest that we do, since the Spanish ñ is too well known for its original value – palatal nasal and even though its value is not fixed, the use of it would remind people of Native American languages, whereas here we are dealing with a Turkic language. Turkmen uses ň to represent its velar nasal and it is a possible solution for Uyghur. However, I personally would hesitate to use it because the hacek is characteristic of Slavic languages written in Latin letters. I found in Latvian the letter ņ (n cedilla) which I’d personally prefer to use, because it harmonises well with the other cedillas – ş and ç and is aesthetically pleasing. It is also easier to write, since we write from top to bottom and it is more natural to mark the bottom part rather than going back to the top to add things there. Although the Latvian ņ is really used to represent the palatal nasal of the language, its value is less known outside the language community and consequently it is easier to assign a new value to it when it’s used in another language.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-13, 19:06

linguanima wrote:Oh wow :shock: thank you so much zhiguli for your contributions!!! You must be a connoisseur of Turkic languages!! :D Please help me make this informal Uyghur subforum better!!


A sometime student of them. I've been busy with other languages, unfortunately, but I'll do what I can

linguanima wrote:First of all, I propose that the principles of Latinising Uyghur should be 1. the transcription should be simple and aesthetically pleasing; and we should avoid digraphs as much as possible; 2. it should show its Turkic characteristics. So we should look to other Turkic languages which have succeeded in Latinising their writing systems for examples.


I have no objections, I think Uyghur (and Uzbek, for that matter) Latin would look better "Azeri" style.
The only thing is that "uyghurqe" is widely used on the internet, so you'd still need to know it to search for things or use online dictionaries etc

linguanima wrote:There is only one potential digraph left, ‘ng’, which is commonly used in many languages to represent the velar nasal stop.
...


Wouldn't 'ŋ' be a better choice? It dovetails with both IPA and the Cyrillic ң.

There's also the matter of i/ı, but since neither the Uyghurs nor the Uzbeks distinguish between them in writing there's no need for us to, either. I still find the rules for it a bit unclear.


So, taking that Cyrillic text, we get:

Qaldim yalğuz

Həmmini bilməy kəttiŋ sən
Qaldim yalğuz desəŋ
Qaldim yalğuz yənə
Muhəbbət maŋa
Bu duniyada qaldim yalğuz

Sözlirimni kimgə dəymən
Asmanğa qarap.
Sözliriŋni untimaymən
Jürigimdə saqlap.
Sözliriŋni tapalmaymən
Naxşamda eytsam.
Seni oylap çidimaymən
Jürigimni bərsəm.

Yultuzum, kəçürgin meni
Yoruq bolsun tünüm.
Sənsiz bolmaydu kün
Jürigim meniŋ
Bilsəŋ sən üçün
Qaldim yalğuz.

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-14, 4:22

An alphabet tutorial found on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... 9676671170

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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-14, 17:08

zhiguli wrote:Wouldn't 'ŋ' be a better choice? It dovetails with both IPA and the Cyrillic ң.


Mmm it'll do, but don't you think it'll make it looks like some obscure, newly-discovered language that doesn't have a writing system yet and can only rely on IPA transcription? ŋ is too famous for being an IPA symbol. And actually which keyboard should I use to enter it? With the Latvian ņ I can use Latvian keyboard...

zhiguli wrote:There's also the matter of i/ı, but since neither the Uyghurs nor the Uzbeks distinguish between them in writing there's no need for us to, either. I still find the rules for it a bit unclear.


Yes this troubles me as well. I don't think native speakers have actually realised there's this distinction. I think i and ı are used as allophones, at least in Uyghur. Because when people talk fast they don't care about their vowels and a lot of i's become ı's or even e's. But when singing, especially when singing slowly, people pronounce the i's clearly even in words like 'yarim' where vowel harmony rules obviously apply. So I think it's only a choice and the i -> ı change depends on many more things other than surrounding vowels - in suffix -iņ for example, no matter what the preceding vowel is, the i remains ı. And the word sizgə is almost always pronounced as 'sızgə' whereas 'siz' on its own sounds rather like 'sez'.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-14, 17:23

New videos! Real-life Uyghur dancing scenes with music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktcf5pr0Vsw (Aça aça, Dawançiņ qizi and Oynasun)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OjftANhmjM (Oynay dəp kəldim, Tağ sülər and Həmrayiņ bollay)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pCHRkHTAIk(Doppam başimda, Ayxan dəşuq oynayli and Mən köydüm sizgə)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmrhRkHWQ0 (Şax şax çinar, Way gülmiduq)
Last edited by linguanima on 2009-08-15, 3:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-14, 17:26

I'll post the lyrics of two of my favourite songs first:

Dawançıņ qızı

Dawançıņnıņ yeri qattaq, tawuzı bək tatlıq
Dawançıņnıņ yeri qattaq, tawuzı bək tatlıq
Dawançıņda bir yayrım bar, Qəmbərxan atlıq
Dawançıņda bir yayrım bar, Qəmbərxan atlıq

Qəmbərxanım, Qəmbərxanım, yəlpüp qoyaymu?
Qəmbərxanım, Qəmbərxanım, yəlpüp qoyaymu?
Yəlpügüçüniņ sayasida, taşlap qoyaymu?
Yəlpügüçüniņ sayasida, taşlap qoyaymu?

Dawançıņğa tawuz terisam, pələkliri tüz
Dawançıņğa tawuz terisam, pələkliri tüz
Yaņzımu yaņza tawuz çüşti özəņ tallap üz
Yaņzımu yaņza tawuz çüşti özəņ tallap üz

Sən yar üçün tayaq yidim, bir miņ altə yüz
Sən yar üçün tayaq yidim, bir miņ altə yüz
Yənə yisəm şünçə yərmən, canım qara köz
Yənə yisəm şünçə yərmən, canım qara köz

داۋانچىڭنىڭ يېرى قاتتىق، تاۋۇزى بەك تاتلىق
داۋانچىڭنىڭ يېرى قاتتىق، تاۋۇزى بەك تاتلىق
داۋانچىڭدا بىر يايرىم بار، قەمبەرخان ئاتلىق
داۋانچىڭدا بىر يايرىم بار، قەمبەرخان ئاتلىق

قەمبەرخانىم، قەمبەرخانىم، يەلپۈپ قويايمۇ؟
قەمبەرخانىم، قەمبەرخانىم، يەلپۈپ قويايمۇ؟
يەلپۈگۈچۈنىڭ ساياسىدا، تاشلاپ قويايمۇ؟
يەلپۈگۈچۈنىڭ ساياسىدا، تاشلاپ قويايمۇ؟

داۋانچىڭغا تاۋۇز تېرىسام، پەلەكلىرى تۈز
داۋانچىڭغا تاۋۇز تېرىسام، پەلەكلىرى تۈز
ياڭزىمۇ-ياڭزا تاۋۇز چۈشتى، ئۆزەڭ تاللاپ ئۈز
ياڭزىمۇ-ياڭزا تاۋۇز چۈشتى، ئۆزەڭ تاللاپ ئۈز

سەن يار ئۈچۈن تاياق يىدىم، بىر مىڭ ئالتە يۈز
سەن يار ئۈچۈن تاياق يىدىم، بىر مىڭ ئالتە يۈز
يەنە يىسەم شۈنچە يەرمەن، جانىم قارا كۆز
يەنە يىسەم شۈنچە يەرمەن، جانىم قارا كۆز

Oynasun

Uyanigə taşlap oynasun
Buyanigə taşlap oynasun
Uyanigə taşlap oynasun
Buyanigə taşlap oynasun

Saçigə asqan lentisni
Yanigə taşlap oynasun
Saçigə asqan lentisni
Yanigə taşlap oynasun

Kəliņlar dostlar oynayli
Heçkim çəttə qalmasun
Kəliņlar dostlar oynayli
Heçkim çəttə qalmasun

Kimniņ məyli kimgə bolsa
Qoyup beriņ oynasun
Kimniņ məyli kimgə bolsa
Qoyup beriņ oynasun

Uyanigə taşlap oynasun
Buyanigə taşlap oynasun
Uyanigə taşlap oynasun
Buyanigə taşlap oynasun

ئويناسۇن

ئۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
بۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
ئۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
بۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن

ساچىگە اسقان لېنتىسنى
يانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
ساچىگە اسقان لېنتىسنى
يانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن

كەلىڭلار دوستلار ئوينالى
ھېچكىم چەتتە قالماسۇن
كەلىڭلار دوستلار ئوينالى
ھېچكىم چەتتە قالماسۇن

كىمىڭ مەيلى كىمگە بولسا
قويۇپ بېرىن ئويناسۇن
كىمىڭ مەيلى كىمگە بولسا
قويۇپ بېرىن ئويناسۇن

ئۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
بۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
ئۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
بۇيانىگە تاشلاپ ئويناسۇن
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

zhiguli
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Real Name: zhiguli zhiguli
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-14, 18:57

linguanima wrote:
zhiguli wrote:Wouldn't 'ŋ' be a better choice? It dovetails with both IPA and the Cyrillic ң.


Mmm it'll do, but don't you think it'll make it looks like some obscure, newly-discovered language that doesn't have a writing system yet and can only rely on IPA transcription? ŋ is too famous for being an IPA symbol.


Maybe so, but it is used in the new Tatar Latin alphabet and was used in the old Unified Turkic Alphabet of the USSR, so it does have a historical precedent.
And it just looks better, IMHO, using ñ ň ņ which all represent palatalised sounds, just doesn't seem right somehow.

And actually which keyboard should I use to enter it? With the Latvian ņ I can use Latvian keyboard...

There are pan-Latin layouts like this one, though they can be a bit complicated to use.

linguanima wrote:So I think it's only a choice and the i -> ı change depends on many more things other than surrounding vowels - in suffix -iņ for example, no matter what the preceding vowel is, the i remains ı. And the word sizgə is almost always pronounced as 'sızgə' whereas 'siz' on its own sounds rather like 'sez'.


From what I gather from my Uyghur (and Uzbek) textbooks 'i' gets reduced when it comes between/after voiceless consonants. I'll have to check this again, though.

It's interesting to see both i/ı being used in these signs from Uzbekistan, though, it seems they did some experimenting with it:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZLPMPNbq7_A/S ... 09+051.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... e_hall.jpg

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linguanima
Posts: 886
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Real Name: Alexander Ding
Gender: male
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Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby linguanima » 2009-08-15, 3:27

zhiguli wrote:From what I gather from my Uyghur (and Uzbek) textbooks 'i' gets reduced when it comes between/after voiceless consonants. I'll have to check this again, though.


Which textbooks do you use?
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

zhiguli
Posts: 688
Joined: 2003-12-13, 8:36
Real Name: zhiguli zhiguli
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Uyghur ئۇيغۇرچە‎

Postby zhiguli » 2009-08-15, 4:44

I use a Russian textbook - Уйгурский язык - Касымова (The Uyghur Language - Kasymova)
and also the site I mentioned above, which has a short grammar.

Here's what it has to say about vowel reduction:

5. Reduction of narrow vowels /у/ (u), /ү/(ü), /и/ (i).
At the very beginning of a word before voiceless consonants narrow vowels practically lose their length and sonorance (?), when pronouncing them all that comes out is a puff of air:
У (u), ү (ü), и (i) before к (k), т (t), х (x), ч (ç), ш (ş), с (s), п (p), қ (q) are almost not pronounced - икки (ikki) /шки (şki)/, ишт (işt) /шт (şt)/, ука (uka) /фка (fka)/, үч (üç) /ш (ş)/, иппәк (ippək) /шпәк (şpək)/.
Narrow vowels undergo the same changes between two voiceless consonants in monosyllabic words:
Чиш (çiş) - чш (çş), миқ (miq) /мқ (mq)/, қуш (quş) /қш (qş)/, хиш (xiş) /хш (xş)/.

About i:

2. Vowel и (i) short, high, narrow. It can be very short, almost not pronounced between a sonorant (м m, н n, р r, л l, й y) and a voiceless consonant, and also between two voiceless consonants: тил (til) /тл (tl)/, пил (pil) /пл (pl)/, ис (is) /с (s)/, хиш (xiş) /хш (xş)/, чиш (çiş) /чш (çş)/, тит (tit) /тт (tt)/, тик /тк (tk)/.

Another song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNFIH2NlfVA
you can hear it very clearly in the title, "yaşisun", which sounds more like yaşsun.


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