Malayalam lessons

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vijayjohn
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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-19, 21:16

sshashwatt wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Nah, വന്നാടെ sounds more like an emphatic (and very informal) command. വന്നു vannu means 'came', but വന്നോ vannO means not only 'did (I/you/he/...) come?' but also can be an emphatic (but not necessarily impolite) command ('come!!'). വന്നാടെ means something like 'come on, man!!'

:) And I kept on thinking about relative participle and what not!!

Heh, well, to be fair, it is a pretty odd construction. :lol:
Translation exercise is really effective, I am learning vocabulary and also getting feel of grammar rules. Now many of the rules do not seem difficult as it felt earlier! :ohwell:

I'm impressed! :)
Today's questions:

1) Confused with “Kazhiyuka” and “Kazhikkuka”. I want your confirmation on usage…

Kazhiyuka = Can, End, Conclude, Die, Competent, Live
Ex. Aarogyam Kazhinju Padikkaruthu- Don’t study at the cost of health
Here verbal participle form of “Kazhiyuka” is used in the sense of “End”

Kazhikkuka = Finish, Kill, Eat, Get on, Conduct, Manage, Perform
Ex. Bhakshanam Nannayi Chavachu Kazhikku
Here imperative form of “Kazhikkuka” is used in the sense of “Finish (meal)”

Is that right?

Hmm, I guess that makes sense. I usually think of kazhiyuka as meaning 'to end' and kazhikkuka as meaning 'to eat a meal', but now that I think about it, 'end' vs. 'finish' might be a good way to think about it, too. -ikk is often used as a causative suffix in Malayalam, so maybe kazhikkuka literally means 'to cause to end'.

Btw, kazhikkuka is also the verb that we use for marriage. KalyaaNam is the word for a wedding or marriage; kalyaaNam kazhikkuka means 'to get married'. Maybe that's because a wedding involves giving a lot of food to guests. :lol:
2) Switch on the Fan = Faninte SwichiDuka | Switch on the Light = Lightinte SwitchiDuka

Please explain “Inte” suffix in “Faninte” and “Lightinte”, is it Fan/ Light + Genetive suffix?

Yep! "Put (i.e. turn on) the switch of the fan/light."
Can we say Fan switchiDuka/ Fan switch cheyyu?

Yeah, probably. Malayalees often treat English loanwords in slightly weird ways like that. :lol:
3) What is the meaning of verb “Viittupovuka”? Is it “To fail” or “To depart”?

Ex. Don't fail to Inform Me = Enne Ariyikkan Vittupok-aruthu

Well, viTuka literally means 'to let go'. For example, in the first clip here, the female character Prabha says, "ente kaiyyiinn(u) viTuu. ente kaiyyiinn(u) viTaanaa parranjnjath(u)!" which means (basically): 'Let go of my hand. I said let go of my hand!' So viTTupOvuka literally means 'to let go and go (away)', i.e. 'to abandon', and enne arriyikkaan viTTupOkaruth(u) literally means 'don't abandon to inform me', but that doesn't make much sense in English. :lol: So we say "don't fail to inform me."
4) Usage of “Patti” and “Kurichu”. Are these suffixes interchangeable or have any specific meaning?

Ennepatti- about me, Ningalepatti- about you; Ningalepatti Njan Dharalam Kettitundu
Ningalekurichu- about you, athe kurichu- about it; Ningalekurichu Enikku Abhimanam-undu

I've never really been sure. -Kurrichch(u) seems to be the one that people use a lot more often, IME. But yeah, they're definitely very similar in meaning.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-29, 19:52

Hi! I am back after a long holiday!! :) How are things at your side?

Couple of questions today!
1) He understood- Avan manassilaayi. Somewhere I read "manassilaakki", is that the Transitive form (made to understand)?

2) He talks a lot- Avan dhaaraalam samsaarikkunnu. Please explain "സംസാരിക്കാറുണ്ട്". Is that "Samsaarikunnu+unTu" or something else?

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby TeneReef » 2014-12-29, 23:54

When do you use -kkuka and when -kjkjuka?
Is it like -ti and -ći in Croatian? :hmm:
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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-30, 21:52

sshashwatt wrote:Hi! I am back after a long holiday!! :)

Welcome back! :)
How are things at your side?

I'm okay, thanks. How are you? How was your holiday?
Couple of questions today!
1) He understood- Avan manassilaayi. Somewhere I read "manassilaakki", is that the Transitive form (made to understand)?

I think I'd say causative, but yes. :) (It should be avan(u) manassilaayi, though ;)).
2) He talks a lot- Avan dhaaraalam samsaarikkunnu. Please explain "സംസാരിക്കാറുണ്ട്". Is that "Samsaarikunnu+unTu" or something else?

No, that's different. സംസാരിക്കുന്നു samsaarikkunnu means 'is talking' (usually, but I think it can also mean 'talks'). സംസാരിക്കാറുണ്ട്" samsaarikkaarruNT(u) means 'talks' - like, it can only mean that he talks habitually, not that he's doing it right now.
TeneReef wrote:When do you use -kkuka and when -kjkjuka?
Is it like -ti and -ći in Croatian? :hmm:

No, I don't think so. Basically, you use the palatalized one after /i/ and /aj/, where /aj/ is phonetically realized as [ɛ].

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2015-01-14, 8:38

Hi Vijay,

You must be wondering if I have stopped learning Malayalam! I haven't!!
I came across a book "A Course in Colloquial Malayalam", (http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED030093.pdf) instantly liked it and started reading it on a daily basis. Its a book with grammar lessons along with translation exercise, vocabulary, pronunciation tips etc.

I have covered half of the book, so far so good. Once I finish the whole book (hopefully in 2 weeks or so) I will be back here!

Malayalam understanding is improving day by day and I am loving it :yep:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-14, 8:39

sshashwatt wrote:Hi,

You must be wondering if I have stopped learning Malayalam! I haven't!!

Nah, I figured you'd be back. :D
I came across a book "A Course in Colloquial Malayalam", (http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED030093.pdf) instantly liked it and started reading it on a daily basis. Its a book with grammar lessons along with translation exercise, vocabulary, pronunciation tips etc.

I have covered half of the book, so far so good.

Malayalam understanding is improving day by day and I am loving it :yep:

That's great to hear! :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby TeneReef » 2015-01-14, 17:39

Namaskaram,
what does word minnaminni mean? :hmm:
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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-15, 6:34

Glowworm (i.e. firefly larva)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-28, 4:14

All right, so as promised, I am finally going to (try to :P) explain how to negate future tense verbs! What I really mean by "future tense verbs" is verbs that end in -ഉം -um. Also, I had said that I would say something about the verb മിണ്ടുക miNTuka, which we saw in that dialog from Chemmeen I had posted earlier on Meera's TAC a couple years back. :P

So, the way I personally negate verbs that end in -ഉം -um is by changing that suffix to -അത്തില്ല -aththilla. For example, കാണും kaaNum means 'will see' (or 'habitually see(s)'), but if I wanted to say 'will not see', I would say കാണത്തില്ല kaaNaththilla.

I think another way that you can negate verbs is simply by adding -യില്ല -yilla to the infinitive form. So for example, 'to see' is കാണുക kaaNuka, and 'will not see' (formed through this approach) would be കാണുകയില്ല kaaNukayilla. It's also possible to shorten the ayil part to just E, so you could also say കാണുകേല kaaNukEla.

Finally, I think yet another way to do it is to first take off the -uka suffix from the verb and then, if the stem ends with a consonant, replace the suffix with either -ഇല്ല illa or -ഊല്ല uulla. So you could also say കാണില്ല kaaNilla or കാണൂല്ല kaaNuulla.

Now, in that movie clip I posted, Pareekutty says, "മിണ്ടൂല്ലേ?" (miNTuullE? 'Won't you talk?'). That's just the question form of മിണ്ടൂല്ല miNTuulla 'won't talk'. I think I'd say മിണ്ടത്തില്ല miNTaththilla or മിണ്ടത്തില്ലേ? miNTaththillE? So, that comes from the verb മിണ്ടുക miNTuka, which means something like 'to talk'. Usually, we use it with a negative word like ഇല്ല illa to mean 'to not talk' (or 'to be quiet' or 'to remain silent'), just like Pareekutty does there.

I think next time I'll talk about another verb form that you might use to talk about the future, too. Or maybe I'll talk about verbs like പോകട്ടെ pOkaTTe and what they mean or how to use them. Or maybe neither. Or both. We'll see. :lol:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-01-04, 6:41

Uh-oh. OK, this part is going to be hard for me, because I'm going to talk about another verb form used for talking about the future...but I myself never fully grasped the difference between this and the other ones! :lol:

We already talked about one way of talking about the future, in particular when implying that something is certain to happen in the future. For example, if I say ഞാൻ വരും njaan varum 'I will come', that means I will definitely come (to wherever I say I will). But what if I want to say something more like 'I will come, but don't hold your breath or anything! I mean, there's some chance that I won't, but I expect to make it'?

The way you do that is to replace the -ഉം -um at the end with -ആം -aam. So instead of saying ഞാൻ വരും njaan varum, you say ഞാൻ വരാം njaan varaam.

...Well, that was a short lesson. :lol: I need to cover something else! Maybe this time, I'll finally talk about words like വള്ളത്തിലെ vaLLaththile. Remember way back when I posted this dialog from the movie Chemmeen, where Pareekkutty opens by saying "കറുത്തമ്മ...വള്ളത്തിലെ മീനെല്ലാം എനിക്കല്ലേ? karruththamma...vaLLaththile miinellaam enikkallE?" 'Karuthamma, aren't all the fish in the boat for me?' We've covered everything in that sentence before in this thread except for one little detail: the -e at the end of vaLLaththile. What's with that? വള്ളത്തിൽ vaLLaththil already means 'in the boat'. So why do we need that -e, too?

Well, it tells us that വള്ളത്തിലെ vaLLaththile modifies the noun or the noun phrase that comes after it: in this case, മീന്‍ miin 'fish'. In other words, it tells us that it's referring to a certain thing in the boat. What's Pareekkutty asking about? He's asking about fish. Which fish? The fish in the boat - വള്ളത്തിലെ മീന്‍ vaLLaththile miin. If we didn't have that -e at the end, then I imagine വള്ളത്തിൽ മീനെല്ലാം എനിക്കല്ലേ? vaLLaththil miinellaam enikkallE? would probably mean something like 'aren't all the fish for me on the boat?'. As in, "if I was on the boat, wouldn't all the fish that were caught(?) be for me?" But of course, that's not what Pareekkutty means. He means the fish that are already in the boat.

So basically, you add that -e suffix to a noun in locative case to show that the next noun is something in it. വള്ളത്തിൽ vaLLaththil 'in the boat' is in locative case, but if I add -e to it and then put another noun after that as in വള്ളത്തിലെ മീന്‍ vaLLaththile miin, that means the fish (മീന്‍) that are in the boat (വള്ളത്തിലെ). :)

Next time, I think I'll start talking about verbs that can take dative subjects, since that also includes verbs with the suffix that I described in the first part of this post.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-28, 4:52

In Malayalam, the subject of a sentence is usually in nominative case (which is also the citation form and the default form, i.e. the one that doesn't take any special endings). However, with certain verbs, especially verbs that have to do with emotions, the subject is instead in dative case.

For example, if you wanted to say 'I want (cooked) rice', you would say:

എനിക്ക് ചോറ് വേണം. enikku chOrr(u) vENam.

This can also mean (by implication) 'I want a meal'. Notice that instead of saying ഞാൻ njaan for 'I', you say എനിക്ക്, which is the dative case form. This is because you always use the dative case form for the subject when the verb is some form of 'to want'.

Other verbs that require the subject to be in dative case include:
തോന്നുക thOnnuka 'to feel, think' (but NOT വിചാരിക്കുക vichaarikkuka 'to think'!)
വിശക്കുക viSakkuka 'to be hungry'
ദാഹിക്കുക daahikkuka 'to be thirsty'
ക്ഷീണിക്കുക kshiiNikkuka 'to get tired'
ഒക്കുക/കഴിയുക/സാധിക്കുക okkuka/kazhiyuka/saadhikkuka 'to be able (to do something)'
വയ്യാതാവുക vayyaathaavuka meaning either 'to be unable (to do something)' or 'to be sick'

വിശക്കുക viSakkuka 'to be hungry' and ദാഹിക്കുക daahikkuka 'to be thirsty' can be used in the present progressive form:

നിനക്ക് വിശക്കുന്നോ? ninakk(u) viSakkunnO? 'Are you hungry?'
ഞങ്ങൾക്ക് ദാഹിക്കുന്നു. njangngaLkk(u) daahikkunnu. 'We're thirsty.'

തോന്നുക thOnnuka 'to feel, think' can also be used this way, but it's also very often used in the past tense form for expressing an opinion or sharing a thought where in English, we would say 'I think'. For example:

അതൊരു ആനയാണെന്ന് എനിക്ക് തോന്നി. athoru aanayaaNenn enikk(u) thOnni. 'I think that's an elephant.'

Here, തോന്നി thOnni is in the past tense. You could perhaps say the reason for this is that the person saying this had already formulated their thought earlier and it's just that they're putting it into words now.

The verbs ഒക്കുക okkuka, കഴിയുക kazhiyuka, and സാധിക്കുക saadhikkuka, all meaning 'to be able', are more often used in the habitual form:

എനിക്ക് അത് ചെയ്യാൻ ഒക്കും. enikk ath(u) cheyyaan okkum. 'I can do that'.

ക്ഷീണിക്കുക kshiiNikkuka 'to get tired' can be used in the present tense, but to talk about being tired, i.e. having already gotten tired, you'd use the past tense:

നിങ്ങൾക്ക് ക്ഷീണിച്ചില്ലേ? ningngaLkk(u) kshiiNichchillE? 'Aren't you tired?'

Okay, that was a lot right there! There's a lot more to say about verbs that have subjects in the dative case because some verbs can take subjects in the nominative case OR the dative case, but then the meaning is different. I think I'll save that for next time, though, or maybe even split it up into a few lessons. Then I better talk about using -കൊണ്ട് -koNT(u) for forming the instrumental case, because it's a lesson I just realized is long overdue! (Maybe I'll even combine both of those into one lesson). After that, I might talk about causatives in Malayalam, and then I think I'll talk about how to say things like 'may I go!' and some ways of saying 'goodbye', then about how to talk about accidentally doing something. Maybe after that, I could repost that clip from Manjil Virinja Pookkal I posted once in this thread and start going through that.


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