Malayalam lessons

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vijayjohn
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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-04, 19:24

sshashwatt wrote:Hi, I had started learning Malayalam 1.5 years back but lost interest due to non-availability of good books/ courses.

Trust me, I can relate. :lol:
Earlier I had referred one of the grammar e-book which was essentially a comparison b/w Hindi and Malayalam. Here is the link http://www.languageinindia.com/sep2002/chap1.html
But, mETikkukayaaN>mETikkuaaN>mETikya
I did’nt quite understand this? :cry: Why “Y” used here? Is there a pattern? Or different people say it differently?

Yes, I think there is a pattern: -ikkukayaaN(u) > -ikkuaa > -ikyaa. :)
Am I going too fast and I should concentrate on grammar mainly?

Well, to be honest, I've found from experience that native speakers of Malayalam tend to encourage learners to produce the full forms, at least in the early stages. You'll probably hear them using these shorter forms a lot, but I doubt they would expect you to use them, too. So you don't have to worry about them for now, but I think it's good to know that they exist so you can understand what they mean when you hear them. ;)
2) Perfective aspect: They have/ had/ Will have Studied. I am confused here. One of the e-books had suggested to use a) and b) listed below

a) Avar Padichu-irikkunnu/ padichu-irunnu/ padichu-irrikkum Is this right? Past form of verb + irikkunnu/ irunnu/ irrikkum

b) Padichu-iTTuNT/ padichu-iTTuNTaayirunnu/ padichu-iTTuNTaakkum Or this is the right way? Past form + iTTuNT/ iTTuNTaayirunnu/ iTTuNTaakkum

They're both right, but I use and hear the forms in (b) more often. I think there are some subtle differences between them, though. To me, at least, (a) sounds like perhaps some time has elapsed between the time the person finished the action and now (or had elapsed or will have elapsed between the time the person finished the action and some other time), whereas (b) suggests that the person has had (or had had or will have had :P) the experience of doing the action before.
c) Or in a way you had suggested in one of your posts earlier
cheythu + aayirunnu > cheythaayirunnu (Past tense verb + aayirunnu)

padichu + aaN(u)> padichuaaN> padichuaa
padichu+aayirunnu> padichaayirunnu
padichu+aayirikkum> padichaayirikkum

No, neither *paThichchuaa nor *paThichchaayirikkum is a word, as far as I know. :hmm: Cheythaayirunnu and paThichchaayirunnu are, though, and mean 'had done' and 'had studied/learned', or more specifically, 'did in the distant past' and 'studied/learned in the distant past'.
3) In one of posts you had suggested the way to make past continuous sentences using –koNTirikkukayaayirunnu.
Thinnu+koNTirikkukayaayirunnu > thinnONTirikkukayaayirunnu

Can we also use - koNT-irunnu here.
Thinnu+koNTirunnu> thinnoNTirunnu

Yeah, i think you can, but again, I think I hear –koNTirikkukayaayirunnu more often.
4) This much/ That much/ How much (For Amount)
Itna/ Utna/ Kitna? (Hindi) and, Ivvalvu/ Avvalvu/ Evvalvu? (Tamil)
Similarly, This much/ That much/ How much (For Number)
Itna/ Utna/ Kitna? (Hindi) and Ittanai/ Attanai/ Ettanai? (Tamil)
What are the similar words in Malayalam?

ഇത്ര ithra/അത്ര athra/എത്ര? ethra? :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-05, 19:54

Thanks a ton! My doubts are getting sorted out and I am loving it! :lol:

Few more queries:
1) Are “paTHikunnuNT” and “paTHikk(uka)yaaN(u)>paTHikyaa” are interchangeable and denote same meaning or, there is subtle difference?

2) Do you pronounce “kkunnu” as “kyunnu”? Like, “paTHikunnu- paTHikYunnu” I heard it somewhere, but I am not sure whether it was the same word.

3) Difference b/w "avan", "ayaal" and "addheham".-
Last one is used for people like Travancore king. But what is the diff in usage of "avan" and "ayaal"?
Ayalum Njanum Thammil (Prithviraj’s Movie) :yep: , Avanum Njanum Thammil- will it convey the same meaning- between him and me?
4) Usage of “tanne”- :cry:
“Avan tanne snehikunnu”. This I understand is used for him/her/myself. (taan + e –accusative marker)
I get confused when I see “Enikku Valare Sukham Thanne”. I guess this “thane” is different than the one used above. Can this sentence be made this way “Enikk valare sukham/ enikk valare sukhamaaN”?

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-05, 23:07

sshashwatt wrote:Thanks a ton! My doubts are getting sorted out and I am loving it! :lol:

Haha no problem 8-)
Few more queries:
1) Are “paTHikunnuNT” and “paTHikk(uka)yaaN(u)>paTHikyaa” are interchangeable and denote same meaning or, there is subtle difference?

Hmm...good question. :lol: Yeah, they're basically the same thing. There may be a difference between them, but it's really subtle. I think of paThikkunnuNT(u) as being something you would say if you were reporting to somebody that someone was studying or learning something. For example, if you were at a party, and somebody asked you what you were doing these days or what you were studying in school, then you might use paThikkunnuNT(u) in your reply; you probably wouldn't use it to talk about something you were doing right at that moment. But I think you can use “paTHikk(uka)yaaN(u)>paTHikyaa” for both situations (I'm sure I'd do that :lol:), and I use that a lot more often.
2) Do you pronounce “kkunnu” as “kyunnu”? Like, “paTHikunnu- paTHikYunnu” I heard it somewhere, but I am not sure whether it was the same word.

Only after i and ay (which is pronounced like e :P And not after ai! :lol:).
3) Difference b/w "avan", "ayaal" and "addheham".-
Last one is used for people like Travancore king.

Well, not only for him. :lol: I mean, you use it to refer to anybody respectfully in the third person.
But what is the diff in usage of "avan" and "ayaal"?

Well, basically, ayaaL is a gender-neutral alternative to avan. Avan can only mean 'he', and avaL can only mean 'she', but ayaaL can mean either. See this post for more information on third-person (and second-person) pronouns. :)
Ayalum Njanum Thammil (Prithviraj’s Movie) :yep: , Avanum Njanum Thammil- will it convey the same meaning- between him and me?

Yeah. Tbh, though, ayaaL sounds a little more rude/informal than avan does to me, but that could just be me lol.
4) Usage of “tanne”- :cry:

Heheh, yeah, that word is pretty tricky!
“Avan tanne snehikunnu”. This I understand is used for him/her/myself. (taan + e –accusative marker)
I get confused when I see “Enikku Valare Sukham Thanne”. I guess this “thane” is different than the one used above. Can this sentence be made this way “Enikk valare sukham/ enikk valare sukhamaaN”?

Yes, it can, and yes, that thanne is different in meaning. It's the Malayalam equivalent of the word hi in Hindi (as in vahi or door ki cheez hi :P). In this particular example, it's used for emphasis ("I'm doing very well!"). I see it being used in that sense much more often than I see it being used to mean 'self'.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-06, 20:15

Thanks to your help i have covered most of the tense rules for making basic sentences. As next step i have started studying Aspects, Moods, Adjective, Adverb etc. I will compile queries/ discussion points and will share with you. :D

By the way, any basic rule you follow to memorize vocabulary? What i do is to read words along with meaning repeatedly on daily basis.

My second attempt to learn a language and i must say it is a fascinating experience :yep:. My respect towards Malayalam increasing day by day and i am more determined to be an able communicator by this year's end. :hmm:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-06, 20:45

sshashwatt wrote:Thanks to your help i have covered most of the tense rules for making basic sentences. As next step i have started studying Aspects, Moods, Adjective, Adverb etc. I will compile queries/ discussion points and will share with you. :D

Great, I'm looking forward to it! :)
By the way, any basic rule you follow to memorize vocabulary? What i do is to read words along with meaning repeatedly on daily basis.

Hmm...not really. I love learning languages, but I'm so bad at trying to give out language-learning tips. :lol: I don't really remember what I did earlier, but lately, what I've been doing is to notice words I wasn't familiar with before, ask my parents about what they mean, look them up in a dictionary (if possible), and add it to this thread. I don't do it on a daily basis or anything, just every now and then when I happen to get the opportunity. :)
My second attempt to learn a language and i must say it is a fascinating experience :yep:. My respect towards Malayalam increasing day by day and i am more determined to be an able communicator by this year's end. :hmm:

Wow, really? Good for you! It sounds like you're learning really fast. :D

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-08, 19:37

Hi, Currently i am studying to make command/ permissive sentences. :para: As always ready with queries :ohwell:

1) I wanted your confirmation on usage of couple of malayalam words,

A) How- kaise in Malayalam is Engane. Aise/ waise/ kaise (hindi) = In this manner/ in that manner/ in which manner = ippadi/ appadi/ eppadi (Tamil). Similarly, can we say Ingane/ angane/ engane in Malayalam?

B) Those things/ these things/ which things = Avai/ ivai/ evai in Tamil. Can we say Ava/ Iva/ Eva in Malayalam?

2) How to make negative permissive/command sentences? Can we use “arute” suffix?

She may go- Avalkku pookaam/ aval pookatte/ aval pooyikute
She may not go- Aval pokarute? :para:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-08, 20:04

sshashwatt wrote:Hi, Currently i am studying to make command/ permissive sentences. :para: As always ready with queries :ohwell:

OK, great.
1) I wanted your confirmation on usage of couple of malayalam words,

A) How- kaise in Malayalam is Engane. Aise/ waise/ kaise (hindi) = In this manner/ in that manner/ in which manner = ippadi/ appadi/ eppadi (Tamil). Similarly, can we say Ingane/ angane/ engane in Malayalam?

Yes.
B) Those things/ these things/ which things = Avai/ ivai/ evai in Tamil. Can we say Ava/ Iva/ Eva in Malayalam?

Yes, although I don't hear those words being used very often. :lol:
2) How to make negative permissive/command sentences? Can we use “arute” suffix?

She may go- Avalkku pookaam/ aval pookatte/ aval pooyikute
She may not go- Aval pokarute? :para:

Well, -aruthe means 'don't'. So pOkaruthe! means 'don't go!'

avaLkk(u) pOkaam means, as you said, 'she may go' (or 'she can go').

avaL pOkaTTe means something a little different; it's more like 'may she go!' I think you can also use it to mean 'allow her to go!' (By the way, this particular expression can also be used idiomatically to mean 'forget (about) her!').

avaL pOyikkuuTe is something I've never heard before, to be honest. :hmm: Maybe it does exist, though. It might be worth asking my dad about, lol.

If you want to say 'she may not go' or 'she cannot go', you could say:
അവൾക്ക് പോകാൻ കഴിയുകയില്ല avaLkk(u) pOkaan kazhiyukayilla (or, more informally, you could say കഴിയത്തില്ല kazhiyaththilla or കഴിയില്ല kazhiyilla)
or അവൾക്ക് പോകാൻ സാധിക്കുകയില്ല avaLkk(u) pOkaan saadhikkukayilla (or സാധിക്കത്തില്ല saadhikkaththilla or സാധിക്കില്ല saadhikkilla).

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-09, 18:52

Hi, I have been watching Malayalam tv channels regularly (at least half an hour a day) but it's not helping much :(. Somehow i feel i understand Tamil words much easier than Malayalam :para: might be due to presence of sandhi rules or the flow in which a native speaker speaks. Can you suggest any alternate way, you tube video links etc. where a beginner would be at ease. You had earlier posted "Chemmeen" movie scene, that was much easier!.

Please help me understand word "ariyaam".
Njaan ariyaam- I know.
Is this "ariyuka+aam > ariy+aam= ariyaam (promissive mood).
I know (for sure) > njaan ariyum. Is that right?

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-09, 21:50

sshashwatt wrote:Hi, I have been watching Malayalam tv channels regularly (at least half an hour a day) but it's not helping much :(. Somehow i feel i understand Tamil words much easier than Malayalam :para: might be due to presence of sandhi rules or the flow in which a native speaker speaks. Can you suggest any alternate way, you tube video links etc. where a beginner would be at ease. You had earlier posted "Chemmeen" movie scene, that was much easier!

Sure! In fact, there were some other clips on YouTube that I was thinking of posting eventually, but I haven't posted them yet just because they have a bit too much new vocabulary. :lol: Or at least there was this one, which is kind of a creepy scene from another old movie (although it's much newer than Chemmeen :lol:) and also has a lot of English in it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_1KKXofSSU
There are also videos like this one, where they teach how to write the Malayalam letters and don't use super-complicated sentences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMQ7MVkkhgA
And videos for kids, like this one, where they also teach Malayalam letters and have a fairly simple song after each letter (with subtitles in Malayalam):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_K5P4DMnSs
And...well, the dialog in this clip is actually pretty fast, but it's also short, and it's just for you since you're learning both Malayalam and Tamil ;) :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAOLr13-IpM
I also thought of this and this, but I listened to some examples from both of them, and those sound like they might be a little too hard to deal with right now. If I find any other listening resources for Malayalam that might be useful for beginners, I'll post them here. :)
EDIT: There's also this video on how to make vegetable fried rice, but it might be a little too advanced as well. I'll add it anyway, though, just in case it turns out to be helpful :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVHsQKxNgn8

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-10, 20:16

Thanks a ton! For the time being I have decided to watch YouTube videos only, here I have option to rewind and listen till the time I hear dialogues right 8-) Couple of links provided by you are very useful, I can see number of preliminary lessons. I guess I should stick with these options, and gradually migrate to TV channels.

A) Now one technical question on usage of Verbal participle. "Having seen/ Having Come" is formed by adding “U” suffix to verb stem. I find it unpredictable.

Having come- var+u= somehow it becomes “vannu!!” Incidentally this is also Past form of verb “varuka”.
Having seen- kaaN+u= kaNdu!! This is also Past form of verb “KaaNuka”.

Can we safely assume past form of verb=verbal participle?

B) I am confused with suffix “eenta”, I learnt that it is used in making “Obligative infinitive” sentences to display “Must/need to” mood. Infinitive form I understand is made like “pokaan” nadakkan”. Now consider couple of sentences below (From ravisankar Malayalam grammar)

kuttikal ivide var-eenta-ayirunnu > The children should have come here
kollattinu pook-eenta aalukal ivide kaattunilkkuka > Those who need to go to Kollam may wait here

Can’t we make above sentences using “aNam”?
Kuttikal ivide varaNamaayirunnu
Kollattinu pokaNam aalukal ivide kaattunilkkuka > Those who must go to Kollam may wait here

I also understand that Infinitive verb “kaattunilkkuka” used above is used for “Command” in a formal way.

C) This I had asked yesterday, guess you missed it while posting links of numerous Youtube videos :wink:

Please help me understand word "ariyaam".
Njaan/ enikk(u) ariyaam- I know.
Is this "ariyuka+aam > ariy+aam= ariyaam (promissive mood)?
I know (for sure) > njaan ariyum. Is that right?

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-11, 2:15

sshashwatt wrote:Thanks a ton! For the time being I have decided to watch YouTube videos only, here I have option to rewind and listen till the time I hear dialogues right 8-) Couple of links provided by you are very useful, I can see number of preliminary lessons. I guess I should stick with these options, and gradually migrate to TV channels.

Great! Good luck! :)
A) Now one technical question on usage of Verbal participle. "Having seen/ Having Come" is formed by adding “U” suffix to verb stem. I find it unpredictable.

Having come- var+u= somehow it becomes “vannu!!” Incidentally this is also Past form of verb “varuka”.
Having seen- kaaN+u= kaNdu!! This is also Past form of verb “KaaNuka”.

Can we safely assume past form of verb=verbal participle?

Yes. The only difference between the past participle and the simple past tense is that the u at the end of the verb is pronounced like "(u)" instead. kaNTu, by the way, is irregular, but any verb that ends in -rika will have the past tense/participial form ending in -nnu.
B) I am confused with suffix “eenta”, I learnt that it is used in making “Obligative infinitive” sentences to display “Must/need to” mood. Infinitive form I understand is made like “pokaan” nadakkan”. Now consider couple of sentences below (From ravisankar Malayalam grammar)

kuttikal ivide var-eenta-ayirunnu > The children should have come here
kollattinu pook-eenta aalukal ivide kaattunilkkuka > Those who need to go to Kollam may wait here

Can’t we make above sentences using “aNam”?
Kuttikal ivide varaNamaayirunnu
Kollattinu pokaNam aalukal ivide kaattunilkkuka > Those who must go to Kollam may wait here

I think you can say kuTTikaL iviTe varaNamaayirunnu; usually we would just say kuTTikaL iviTe varaNaayirunnu without the am. It's two sounds shorter. :lol: However, *Kollaththin(u) pOkaNam aaLukaL sounds odd.

The thing is, here, we're getting into how to form relative clauses in Malayalam and saying things like 'those who must go'. This is kind of complicated, but I'll explain it anyway just in case you want to know now. :) To form a relative clause in Malayalam, you take the part that in English would begin with "who," "that," etc. and put it before whatever it's modifying. Then, generally, you just change the last vowel of the verb at the end of the relative clause to a.

Here's an example. How would I say "I am catching fish?" The word for 'to catch' is piTikkuka. We've already seen that the word for 'I' is njaan, the word for 'fish' is miin, and since we know the word for 'to catch', 'am catching' would be piTikkunnu. So we'd say njaan miin piTikkunnu.

Now, how would we say 'the fish that I am catching'? We take the "that I am catching" part and put it at the beginning, leaving "(the) fish" at the end, and we change the last vowel in the verb piTikkunnu to an a and get piTikkunna. So 'the fish that I am catching' is njaan piTikkunna miin.

Similarly, if we wanted to say 'the fish that I caught', we would say njaan piTichcha miin, because the past tense form of the verb is piTichchu, and once again, we have to replace the last vowel in that verb with a.

However, if we wanted to say 'the fish that I have to catch', we have to do something a little more complicated. 'I have to catch' in Malayalam would be enikk(u) piTikkaNam, but 'that I have to catch' would be enikk(u) piTikkENTa (I think you can also say enikk(u) piTikkENTiya). So 'the fish that I have to catch' is enikk(u) piTikkENT(iy)a miin. kuTTikaL iviTe varENTathaayirunnu emphasizes the idea that they should have come here; perhaps a more literal translation might be 'the children were the ones who should have come here' (but again, the emphasis is on the 'should have come here' part, not on the children). I would translate Kollaththin(u) pOkENTa aaLukaL iviTe kaaththunilkkuka as 'people who need to/must go to Kollam, (please) wait here'.
I also understand that Infinitive verb “kaattunilkkuka” used above is used for “Command” in a formal way.

Hmm, you're right about it being a command, but I wouldn't say "formal." Maybe more like impersonal. It's something that I usually see only in writing, usually when addressing a large audience. There are specific ways of making commands, depending on how much respect you want to show to the speaker and how strong the command is. But when you make a road sign, write a magazine article, etc., you don't know who will read it; therefore, you don't know how much respect you have to show them. I think that's when you would use this form. :)
C) This I had asked yesterday, guess you missed it while posting links of numerous Youtube videos :wink:

OMG, I did miss it! Sorry! :lol:
Please help me understand word "ariyaam".
Njaan/ enikk(u) ariyaam- I know.
Is this "ariyuka+aam > ariy+aam= ariyaam (promissive mood)?

Pretty much, yes. We usually say enikk(u) arriyaam to mean 'I know'.
I know (for sure) > njaan ariyum. Is that right?

I'm not sure, to be honest. :lol: I've never been sure what the difference was between njaan arriyum and enikk(u) arriyaam, but I think of njaan arriyum as meaning 'I will know for sure'. In any case, at least in my experience (and probably in real life), people seem to use enikk(u) arriyaam more often than njaan arriyum anyway.

Hope this helps! :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-11, 20:30

Hey Thanks! How did you know i had to study Relative participle today? :D I closed Conditional, Concessive, Irrealis and Relative participle suffix. Tomorrow i will study Transitive, Causative & Passive voice. This will conclude grammar part after that i will go for English-Malayalam translation, which should improve grammar understanding and Vocabulary. So far so good :wink:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-11, 20:32

sshashwatt wrote:Hey Thanks!

No problem. :)
How did you know i had to study Relative participle today? :D

Haha I had no idea! :lol: It's nice to know that I helped you with something you were going to study today anyway. :D
I closed Conditional, Concessive, Irrealis and Relative participle suffix. Tomorrow i will study Transitive, Causative & Passive voice. This will conclude grammar part after that i will go for English-Malayalam translation, which should improve grammar understanding and Vocabulary. So far so good :wink:

Great! Good luck! :woohoo:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-12, 19:36

vijayjohn wrote:However, if we wanted to say 'the fish that I have to catch', we have to do something a little more complicated. 'I have to catch' in Malayalam would be enikk(u) piTikkaNam, but 'that I have to catch' would be enikk(u) piTikkENTa (I think you can also say enikk(u) piTikkENTiya). So 'the fish that I have to catch' is enikk(u) piTikkENT(iy)a miin.

Now, how to make negative relative participle sentences? Can we say,
"The fish that i don't have to catch" = "enikk(u) piTikkENTa-atta miinam"?
Same way, "Matter which need not be said"= "Paray-eNTa-atta kaaryam"?

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-12, 19:54

sshashwatt wrote:Now, how to make negative relative participle sentences? Can we say,
"The fish that i don't have to catch" = "enikk(u) piTikkENTa-atta miinam"?
Same way, "Matter which need not be said"= "Paray-eNTa-atta kaaryam"?

Yes, I think that's right, except of course that 'fish' is miin, not *miinam. ;)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-16, 19:08

vijayjohn wrote:Yes, I think that's right, except of course that 'fish' is miin, not *miinam. ;)

O Yes :lol:

I have started translating English sentences in Malayalam, I guess this is the right way to learn vocabulary and at the same time I can also identify weak links in my understanding of grammar. BTW I watched couple of Mohanlal’s movies on weekends (Vandanam and Thoovanathumbikal) , and I can see understanding improving day by day :)

Now few questions: :yep:

1) How Sweet = Enthu Bumghi.
Is “Bumghi” right word? Or it is “Bhamgi” which means “Beauty”

2) My God = Ente Daivame.
Genetive form of "Njaan" is "Enre", what is “Ente” then. Is it "En+uTe" (genitive suffix)?

3) How Dare You Say That = Ninakith engine Parayan Thonni.
Ninakith= Ninakku+ithu? What is the usage of “Thonni” here, is it the verb stem of “Thonnikkuka” which means “suggest”?

4) Quiet Please = Sabdhikathirikku. Could not find in dictionary.

5) You Are Right = Ningal Paranjathu Sariy-aNu. Please explain the meaning and usage of “Paranjathu”, it sounds similar to past form of verb “parayuka”

6) I Have No Objection = Enikku Yathoru Ethirppu/ pratishedham-illa. I have no clue on “Yathoru”

7) It's Rather A Matter Of Pleasure = Aere Kure Santhoshakaramaya Oru Vishayam-aNu.
Please explain “Aere” and “Kure”. Is this the same “kure” which means “some”?

8) Why Not? = Enthukondalla.
I understand that “En” means “why”. And “Enthu kondu” is also “Why”; “Enthukondu+alla=why not”. However I do not understand the rationale behind “Enthu kondu”. “Kondu” is used for “With/ within/By / Due to” meaning. What is relevance of using it with “Enthu”?

9) Yes. By All Means = Sari. Ella Urththilum. No clue on “Urthithilum”

10) Not The Least = Theereyilla. Didn’t find “Theerey” in dictionary.

11) Nothing Special = Visheshichu Onnumilla. Visheshichum or Vishesham?

12) Anything Else = Mattenth-enkilum. Please explain word “Mattenth”

13) Nothing More= Ithrayeyyullu. No clue about this!!

14) Stop Worrying = Vishamikk-athirikku. Again, no clue about “Athirikku”


I know I have asked too many questions, :para: reply at your convenience.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-17, 4:24

sshashwatt wrote:I have started translating English sentences in Malayalam, I guess this is the right way to learn vocabulary and at the same time I can also identify weak links in my understanding of grammar. BTW I watched couple of Mohanlal’s movies on weekends (Vandanam and Thoovanathumbikal) , and I can see understanding improving day by day :)

Great! :)
Now few questions: :yep:

1) How Sweet = Enthu Bumghi.
Is “Bumghi” right word? Or it is “Bhamgi” which means “Beauty”

Yeah, bhanggi (which is written in Malayalam script as if it should be pronounced like bhamgi) means 'beauty'. The way you'd translate 'how sweet' depends on what exactly you mean by 'sweet' - there's one word if you mean literally sweet, another if you mean 'beautiful' (as in this case), another if you mean 'kind' (like, if you're saying a person is sweet because they're a nice person :)), another if you mean 'fun', and I think another if you mean 'cute' (in particular, if you're saying a child is cute).
2) My God = Ente Daivame.
Genetive form of "Njaan" is "Enre", what is “Ente” then. Is it "En+uTe" (genitive suffix)?

enre and ente are just different spellings for the exact same word. :lol: enre is closer to how it's written; ente is a little more like how it actually sounds. In reality, it's pronounced almost exactly like "N-day" or "yen day." :lol:
3) How Dare You Say That = Ninakith engine Parayan Thonni.
Ninakith= Ninakku+ithu?

Yep! Good job! :)
What is the usage of “Thonni” here, is it the verb stem of “Thonnikkuka” which means “suggest”?

No, it's the past tense of the verb thOnnuka 'to feel'. Literally it means 'how (engngane) did you (ninakk(u)) feel (thOnni) to say (parrayaan) this (ith(u))?' You could also translate this sentence into English as 'how did you think of saying this?'.
4) Quiet Please = Sabdhikathirikku. Could not find in dictionary.

14) Stop Worrying = Vishamikk-athirikku. Again, no clue about “Athirikku”

I'm grouping these two together because they both end the same way. They literally mean something like 'stay (there) without making a sound' and 'remain without worrying'. It probably won't come as a surprise to you that Sabdam means 'sound', since that word comes from Sanskrit. :) But you can also make a verb out of it: Sabdikkuka 'to make a sound'. Then Sabdikkaathe means 'without making a sound'; when you take off the -uka from the infinitive form and add -aathe, that means 'without (doing something)'. And irikk(u) means 'sit!', 'stay!', or 'remain!'.
5) You Are Right = Ningal Paranjathu Sariy-aNu. Please explain the meaning and usage of “Paranjathu”, it sounds similar to past form of verb “parayuka”

Yeah, ningngaL parranjnjath(u) means 'what you said' or 'that which you said', so this sentence literally means 'what you said is correct'. Remember how if you take the past tense form of the verb and change final u to a, you get the "adjectival" form (e.g. parranjnja 'the _____ that I/you/he/she/it/we/they said')? If you change it to ath(u) instead, that means 'that which I/you/he/she/it/we/they said' (or 'what ___ said').
6) I Have No Objection = Enikku Yathoru Ethirppu/ pratishedham-illa. I have no clue on “Yathoru”

Yaathoru...illa means 'there is no...at all'. I've only ever seen yaathoru in a negative context meaning something like 'not at all'.
7) It's Rather A Matter Of Pleasure = Aere Kure Santhoshakaramaya Oru Vishayam-aNu.
Please explain “Aere” and “Kure”. Is this the same “kure” which means “some”?

Yes, but here, both of those words are being used as adverbs. I decided to look Erre up in my dictionary to see what translations it has, and it says, "much, many, very much, much more." Kurre as an adverb means something like 'somewhat'. So a more literal translation would be "(it) is very much a somewhat pleasing subject." :lol:
I understand that “En” means “why”.

No, that's in Tamil. :)
And “Enthu kondu” is also “Why”; “Enthukondu+alla=why not”. However I do not understand the rationale behind “Enthu kondu”. “Kondu” is used for “With/ within/By / Due to” meaning. What is relevance of using it with “Enthu”?

Well, "due to what" means pretty much the same as "why," doesn't it? ;)
9) Yes. By All Means = Sari. Ella Urththilum. No clue on “Urthithilum”

Hmm, yeah, I have no clue what that's supposed to mean either. I can't even find it in my dictionary. :? I would translate that differently. Sari. theerchchayaayum might make more sense (that means something like 'all right, certainly').
10) Not The Least = Theereyilla. Didn’t find “Theerey” in dictionary.

I know this expression, but I wasn't sure how to translate thiire. I was hoping it was in my dictionary, but it's not. :lol: I guess you could say it means something like 'completely' or 'absolutely' (but you can't use it all by itself, as far as I know).
11) Nothing Special = Visheshichu Onnumilla. Visheshichum or Vishesham?

Hmm, I think you can say either viSEshichchonnumilla or viSEsham onnumilla.
12) Anything Else = Mattenth-enkilum. Please explain word “Mattenth”

Mattenth(u) means 'what else'. enth(u) means 'what'; enthengkilum means 'something' or 'anything'. Matte means '(the) other', so mattenthengkilum means 'something else' or 'anything else'.
13) Nothing More= Ithrayeyyullu. No clue about this!!

Ithra means 'this much', and -E is the emphatic suffix, which always has to come before -uLLuu meaning 'only'. So it literally means 'only this much'. You could also translate this expression as "this is all."
I know I have asked too many questions, :para: reply at your convenience.

No, it's okay. :) It just took me a while to write out my reply this time because I had other things to do, too. :lol:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-18, 19:41

Thanks a lot!! :)

Got few more questions:-

1) Don't Trouble = Salliam Cheyaruthu
I could find “shalyappeTuttuka” for "Trouble", what I do not understand is how “shalliam” is derived from “shalyappeTuttuka”. Or is this a different word altogether.

2) Don't Move = Anang-aruthu
I could find “Anangatha” for stationary, unmoving. But Anang-aruthu would mean don’t be stationary, exactly opposite!

3) Wait Out Side = Purathu Kaathu Nilku

Purathu (Outside) Kaathu (Wait) Nilku (Stand), I guess Purathu Kaathu” should be sufficient here!

4) Get Off = Irangi Poku

Please explain usage of “Irangi”

5) Clean Properly = Sarikku Vrthiyakku

“Vrthiyakku” is imperative form of verb “vrthiyakkuka” (To clean), “Sari” is derived from “Sariyayi” (properly), please explain usage of “kku” with “sari” i.e. “Sarikku”

6) Heard one word “poNam പോണം” today in a movie, it means “should go” (pokaNam പോകണം)” or something different? Which one is correct, “pokaNam” or “PoNam”. I guess grammatically “pokaNam” sounds correct, Verb stem + aNam.

7) Another word in couple of Malayalam songs, “vannaTe”വന്നാടെ!! Does this mean “might come?” In this case it should be “VaraaTe വരാടെ” and not “VannaTe വന്നാടെ”.
Or is it the relative participle form “Who did not come”, but in that case it should be “vannatta” വന്നാതത്.
Confused! :lol:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-19, 5:17

sshashwatt wrote:Thanks a lot!! :)

No problem. :)
Got few more questions:-

1) Don't Trouble = Salliam Cheyaruthu
I could find “shalyappeTuttuka” for "Trouble", what I do not understand is how “shalliam” is derived from “shalyappeTuttuka”. Or is this a different word altogether.

Salyam is a noun meaning 'nuisance', basically, and SalyappeTuka is a verb derived from that.
2) Don't Move = Anang-aruthu
I could find “Anangatha” for stationary, unmoving. But Anang-aruthu would mean don’t be stationary, exactly opposite!

No, anangngaruth(u) means 'don't move', because it's the negative imperative/command form of the verb anangnguka 'to move'. Anangngaaththa means 'that/which does not move', i.e. stationary/unmoving.
3) Wait Out Side = Purathu Kaathu Nilku

Purathu (Outside) Kaathu (Wait) Nilku (Stand), I guess Purathu Kaathu” should be sufficient here!

Well, kaathth(u) means 'waited' and usually goes with another verb like nilkkuka 'to stand' or irikkuka 'to sit'. So no, you have to have nilkk(u) (or nilkkuu) there.
4) Get Off = Irangi Poku

Please explain usage of “Irangi”

Irangnguka means 'to get out'. Irrangngi is the past tense form, so irrangngi pOkuu means 'get out' (or, more precisely, 'get out and go').
5) Clean Properly = Sarikku Vrthiyakku

“Vrthiyakku” is imperative form of verb “vrthiyakkuka” (To clean), “Sari” is derived from “Sariyayi” (properly), please explain usage of “kku” with “sari” i.e. “Sarikku”

No, Sariyaayi is the adverbial form of Sari, so it's actually Sariyaayi that's derived from Sari 'correct, right'. But I think we say Sariykk(u) a lot more often than Sariyaayi. I'm not sure why we use the -kk(u) suffix there. We just do, I guess. :lol: Also, Sariykkum means 'really'.
6) Heard one word “poNam പോണം” today in a movie, it means “should go” (pokaNam പോകണം)” or something different?

Yes, പോണം is just the short form of പോകണം. പോകണം is what we usually write, but പോണം is what we actually say most of the time.
Which one is correct, “pokaNam” or “PoNam”. I guess grammatically “pokaNam” sounds correct, Verb stem + aNam.

Both are. :)
7) Another word in couple of Malayalam songs, “vannaTe”വന്നാടെ!! Does this mean “might come?” In this case it should be “VaraaTe വരാടെ” and not “VannaTe വന്നാടെ”.
Or is it the relative participle form “Who did not come”, but in that case it should be “vannatta” വന്നാതത്.
Confused! :lol:

Nah, വന്നാടെ sounds more like an emphatic (and very informal) command. വന്നു vannu means 'came', but വന്നോ vannO means not only 'did (I/you/he/...) come?' but also can be an emphatic (but not necessarily impolite) command ('come!!'). വന്നാടെ means something like 'come on, man!!'

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby sshashwatt » 2014-12-19, 19:57

vijayjohn wrote:Nah, വന്നാടെ sounds more like an emphatic (and very informal) command. വന്നു vannu means 'came', but വന്നോ vannO means not only 'did (I/you/he/...) come?' but also can be an emphatic (but not necessarily impolite) command ('come!!'). വന്നാടെ means something like 'come on, man!!'

:) And I kept on thinking about relative participle and what not!!

Translation exercise is really effective, I am learning vocabulary and also getting feel of grammar rules. Now many of the rules do not seem difficult as it felt earlier! :ohwell:

Today's questions:

1) Confused with “Kazhiyuka” and “Kazhikkuka”. I want your confirmation on usage…

Kazhiyuka = Can, End, Conclude, Die, Competent, Live
Ex. Aarogyam Kazhinju Padikkaruthu- Don’t study at the cost of health
Here verbal participle form of “Kazhiyuka” is used in the sense of “End”

Kazhikkuka = Finish, Kill, Eat, Get on, Conduct, Manage, Perform
Ex. Bhakshanam Nannayi Chavachu Kazhikku
Here imperative form of “Kazhikkuka” is used in the sense of “Finish (meal)”

Is that right?


2) Switch on the Fan = Faninte SwichiDuka | Switch on the Light = Lightinte SwitchiDuka

Please explain “Inte” suffix in “Faninte” and “Lightinte”, is it Fan/ Light + Genetive suffix?

Can we say Fan switchiDuka/ Fan switch cheyyu?


3) What is the meaning of verb “Viittupovuka”? Is it “To fail” or “To depart”?

Ex. Don't fail to Inform Me = Enne Ariyikkan Vittupok-aruthu


4) Usage of “Patti” and “Kurichu”. Are these suffixes interchangeable or have any specific meaning?

Ennepatti- about me, Ningalepatti- about you; Ningalepatti Njan Dharalam Kettitundu
Ningalekurichu- about you, athe kurichu- about it; Ningalekurichu Enikku Abhimanam-undu


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