General Discussion

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Re: General Discussion

Postby hippopotame » 2014-04-27, 17:28

Would anyone want Telugu lessons?

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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-04-27, 21:19

hippopotame wrote:Would anyone want Telugu lessons?

I would! I love Telugu! I have always wanted to learn it!!
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Re: General Discussion

Postby TeneReef » 2014-04-30, 23:51

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Re: General Discussion

Postby 1991sudarshan » 2014-05-03, 9:47

Why Tulu language is not available in the list of languages ? Tulu is a Dravidian language spoken in the Canara Coast above the Malabar Coast.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby Saim » 2014-05-03, 9:58

You can request it here.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-07-02, 15:15

Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby TeneReef » 2014-07-02, 15:23

Bengali used by Muslims and Hindus:
1) same script
2) same vocabulary except for greetings

In Bengali, the difference is more about Indian Bengali vs Bangladeshi Bengali,
than between ''Hindu'' and ''Muslim'' vocabulary,
and the difference between In.Bg. and Ba.Bg is mostly in pronunciation,
for example in Bangladesh s is used instead of sh, more often than not,
and some vowels may be different,
(but Muslim, Hindu and Christian Bengali speakers in India
have the same accent, and use the same vocabulary (except for greetings),
of course Christian Bengalis are more likely to use Christian religious
terminology, and Muslim Bengalis are more likely to use Muslim religious terminology,
while Hindu Bengalis use Hindu religious terminology when discussing their
respective religions).
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Re: General Discussion

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-02, 16:23

Lazar Taxon wrote:Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.

In the Panjabi case, the Muslim variant is almost completely unwritten nowadays due to Pakistan's regressive language policy. Standard Panjabi is also extremely close to Hindustani and most speakers are bilingual, so there's a great deal of influence from the respective national varieties which--as in the Bengali case--probably outweighs any purely sectarian differences.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Saim » 2014-07-03, 8:55

Linguoboy's right. Pakistan doesn't have a "national variant" (i.e. standardised formal register) of Punjabi, there is Punjabi-Urdu diglossia so any attempt to use a formal register of Punjabi (which in itself is rare) would mostly be achieved through calquing Urdu. In the case of Eastern Punjab the subordination of Punjabi to Hindustani isn't as pronounced but often Punjabi does end up borrowing the same Sanskrit neologisms that are first developed in Hindi.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-03, 19:39

Lazar Taxon wrote:Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.
Western Punjabi may be called "Seraiki", but I don't think that's accurate. I wasn't aware there were different varieties (religiolects?) of Bengali. Anyway, I don't think they differ much because, like with Hindi, the spoken language is probably way more Persified and less Sanskritized than the government Brahmins want.

Oh yeah, and Hindi and Urdu are the same fucking language, and so are the nine billion names of The Language Formerly Known As Serbo-Croatian. You heard it here first.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-07-04, 0:59

Lazar Taxon wrote:Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.


I can't really answer for Punjabi. Bengali spoken in both West Bengal and Bangladesh is a lot more Sanskritic than Hindi and probably Punjabi. The only real differences is the type of greetings and religious words. The script is the same. Although the Bangladeshi and Indian accent are different from each other. But you will find both variations are quite sanskritic.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Saim » 2014-07-04, 11:53

mōdgethanc wrote:Western Punjabi may be called "Seraiki", but I don't think that's accurate.


Those are different things, despite Ethnologue's conflation of them. In Western Punjab, there are a couple of languages spoken:

1. "Eastern Punjabi" or just "Punjabi"

a). Majhi in the northeastern, much more populous area (including Lahore)

2. "Western Punjabi" or "Lahnda"

a) Saraiki in the southern plains, i.e. Multan and Bahawalpur

b). Potohari-Pahari
b.i) Potohari around Rawalpindi
b.ii) Pahari in Pakistan-administered Kashmir

c). Hindko
c.i) Northern Hindko around Peshawar (Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa)
c.ii) Southern Hindko or Chhachi around Attock (Punjab province)

However, this division is defunct. Nowadays in Pakistan people talk about "Punjabi" (=Eastern Punjabi or Majhi, often subsuming Potohari and Southern Hindko as well), "Hindko", "Saraiki" and "Potohari". The alleged genetic relationship between the three "Western Punjabi" dialect groups has not been established; furthermore the "Western Punjabi" speakers do not consider themselves to belong to the same ethnic group, and if they ever do or did it was as Punjabis not as Western Punjabis.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-07-31, 22:02

I kind of doubt the reliability of this, but TY Bengali at least suggests that there are a number of differences in vocabulary between what Muslims say and what Hindus say. It lists the "Muslim/Bangladesh" terms in one column and their "Hindu/West Bengal" equivalents in the other. Almost all of the words they list are kinship terms (since that's what they chose to focus on, for whatever reason).

Most of the "Muslim/Bangladesh" terms are probably either borrowed from or calqued on Urdu. However, there are a few that are not and look pretty interesting, since both of the items in each of these pairs are of Indo-Aryan origin:

husband's sister- "Muslim/Bangladesh" ননদ [nɔ̃ˈnod̪] vs. "Hindu/West Bengal" ঠাকুরঝি [ˈʈʰakuɾdʒʱi]
with [postposition]- সাথে [ˈsat̪ʰe] vs. সঙ্গে [ˈʃɔ̃ŋge] (for this particular example, they say "the difference is more geographical than religious")
water- পানি [ˈpãni] vs. জল [dʒɔl]
salt- লবন [lɔˈbõn] vs. নুন [nũn]

That last pair (for salt) looks particularly interesting, because those words actually come from the same ancestor! It's just that লবন [lɔˈbõn] is borrowed from Sanskrit whereas নুন [nũn] is inherited. :)

As for Punjabi, even the definition of some the terms mentioned here (like Hindko and Saraiki) is highly problematic. For example, Masica says that the term "Hindko" is "applied not only to several forms of 'Northern Lahnda' but also to the Siraiki dialects of Dera Ghazi Khan and Mianwali Districts...and of Dera Ismail Khan" (18-19).

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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-08-01, 5:33

Most of the different words are kinship terms. But honestly it's not a Bangladeshi/West Bengal thing because Muslims in Calcutta will use the same words. And sometimes in both dialects they use different ones. For example I was listening to a Bengali radio station based in Dhaka and a caller said "amar ma" instead of "ammi" so I think it really depends on the person. Bengali in general in both regions has more Sanskrit loans than Hindi/Urdu. In my experience it's really just accent and some vocabulary that are different especially from Dhaka and Calcutta. In rural areas it gets harder to understand it but I guess that's with any language. The main difference between them in vocabulary just seems to be greetings, kinship and religious terms. Everything else seems to be accent.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby TeneReef » 2014-08-19, 3:53

Meera wrote:
Lazar Taxon wrote:Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.


I can't really answer for Punjabi. Bengali spoken in both West Bengal and Bangladesh is a lot more Sanskritic than Hindi and probably Punjabi. The only real differences is the type of greetings and religious words. The script is the same. Although the Bangladeshi and Indian accent are different from each other. But you will find both variations are quite sanskritic.


Bangladeshis are more readily to call their language Bangla,
those from West Bengal prefer the name Bengali/Bengoli (not all of them, but the majority)...
As for the accent, in Bangladesh, Bengali nasal vowels are often denasalized,
in West Bengal they're always nasal. :)

Furthermore, in West Bengal, Shadhubhasha is still held in high esteem although it is rarely used,
and in situations which would call for its use (for example legislature, science) English is normally used instead ( in West Bengal),
and not dated high register of 19th century Bengali.
In Bangladesh, in legislature and science, people wouldn't write in either English or Shadhubhasha, but in Cholitobhasha (general Bengali, and the former lower register of Bengali, until the beginning of the 20th century when Shadhubhasha/Cholitobhasha diglossia was strong, but now you see other type of diglossia in Bangladesh: Cholitobhasha (high register) vs local dialect (low register)).
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-08-27, 6:24

TeneReef wrote:
Meera wrote:
Lazar Taxon wrote:Is the level of differentiation (Sanskritic vs. Persiante) between the national varieties of Punjabi and Bengali comparable to that between Hindi and Urdu? I'm curious because people often consider Hindi-Urdu to be two languages, but Punjabi and Bengali don't seem to receive the same treatment.


I can't really answer for Punjabi. Bengali spoken in both West Bengal and Bangladesh is a lot more Sanskritic than Hindi and probably Punjabi. The only real differences is the type of greetings and religious words. The script is the same. Although the Bangladeshi and Indian accent are different from each other. But you will find both variations are quite sanskritic.


Bangladeshis are more readily to call their language Bangla,
those from West Bengal prefer the name Bengali/Bengoli (not all of them, but the majority)...
As for the accent, in Bangladesh, Bengali nasal vowels are often denasalized,
in West Bengal they're always nasal. :)

Furthermore, in West Bengal, Shadhubhasha is still held in high esteem although it is rarely used,
and in situations which would call for its use (for example legislature, science) English is normally used instead ( in West Bengal),
and not dated high register of 19th century Bengali.
In Bangladesh, in legislature and science, people wouldn't write in either English or Shadhubhasha, but in Cholitobhasha (general Bengali, and the former lower register of Bengali, until the beginning of the 20th century when Shadhubhasha/Cholitobhasha diglossia was strong, but now you see other type of diglossia in Bangladesh: Cholitobhasha (high register) vs local dialect (low register)).



Teenreef, all Bengali's call their language Bangla in Bengali. Bengali is the "ethnic" group and Bangla is the language.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby TeneReef » 2014-08-28, 16:31

But, Bipasha does not. :mrgreen:
(What I was trying to say: Bengali-speakers in India prefer using Bengali for the English name of their language,
those from Bangladesh like calling it Bangla even when they speak English :P )
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-09-04, 5:51

A lot of them don't though, even in English. Maybe if they are only talking to other Bangladeshi's or South Asians in English but deffintly not to foriegners.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Meera » 2014-10-27, 3:36

Hey Everyone I'm not sure if we have a general SA media/radio thread but I'll guess I will post it here. The BBC Asain network launched a South Indian and Sri Lanka radio show that comes on Sundays, but you can listen to it anytime:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04mv0ht

It's great so far! Enjoy :mrgreen:
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Re: General Discussion

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-29, 11:17

No, we don't, so thanks! :)

Of course, the BBC has long had some language-specific pages, but you already know that (not counting Hindi/Urdu here). :mrgreen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bengali
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nepali
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pashto
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sinhala
http://www.bbc.co.uk/tamil


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