Kannada (ಕನ್ನಡ)

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Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-01-16, 22:27

I've always wanted to learn something of a Dravidian language and recently (tenatively) decided on Kannada.

My method of choosing was to eliminate Tamil (which I had some experience with but the diglossia scares me) and then give each of the three remaining major languages a shot and see which one 'took'.

Unfortunately, while Kannada seems to be the Dravidian language I have the greatest affinity for, the recources aren't so great (this is pretty typical, I'm halfway convinced the relative lack of materials is a draw for me).

And since there doesn't seem to a thread for Kannada I decided it's high time to start one.

I'll mention a couple of resources here and add more as I find them.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/plc/kannada/

This has six lessons (but nb, the Kannada script doesn't always match the transcription)

It also has links to two downloadable grammars. So far one of those (A Reference Grammar of Spoken Kannada by H. Schiffman, 1979) has been my main source).

My other favorite so far is

http://www.kannadaaudio.com/home/index.php

which has playable files of lots of spoken materials including audio dramas and condensed dramatizations of movies.

This site http://www.ciil-learnkannada.net/index.htm has a potentially interest but I can't get the ancient font to work.

I also have font problems with this potentiall good dictionary site:

http://www.kannadakasturi.com/kasturiEn ... /start.asp

I'll add more resources as I find them and will welcome info from others.

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby Meera » 2011-01-17, 23:52

Thanks for these links. im interested in Kannada.
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-18, 5:22

Kannada diglossia is just as bad as the Tamil one.
Malayalam has been the only Dravidian language without diglossia, but Telugu too has been ''modifying'' its grammar so it's becoming more like Malayalam (you use the same language for writing and speaking).


The problem with Kannada is
1. its speakers have very low esteem, so even in Bangalore you can live fine on English, Hindu and Tamil, most people don't except from you to learn Kannada (Lara Dutta likes calling herself ''a Bangalore girl'' but she didn't learn Kannada at all during her 20year stay there).
2. there is virtually no movie industry in Kannada (unlike Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam) which I think has too do with the fact that the language is not regarded highly by its speakers; so fewer movies means fewer songs and automatically less learning material :(
3. on the Karnataka's coast [Mangalore] people don't even learn (or like) Kannada: the languages spoken there are Tulu (Ashwarya Ray's native tongue) and Konkani (Deepika Padukone's native tongue), Ashwarya does not even speak Kannada, and Deepika's Kannada has been overly criticized (''she speaks it all wrong'') by the Kannadiga's media. :hmm:
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-01-18, 21:03

I was under the impression that Tamil was the most diglossic Dravidian language (of the big 4) and Malayalam the least with Kannada and Telegu somehwere between. So far the main thing I've noticed is vowel dropping and some syllable collapse that comes from that. Not too hard to deal with.

I've already figured out the low self esteem thing. That doesn't put me off, if anything it makes me more curious. Often the low self-esteem is a cover for intent interest in and protective feelings about a language. The coast situation sucks but can't

I've noticed there are fewer Kannada movies but there are enough for my purposes (already downloaded some) for the time being.

On the other hand, literature in Kannada is apparently among the best in India. I've enjoyed the little modern Kannada literature I've found translated into English more than Malayalam or Tamil (didn't find anything from Telugu). I kind of doubt I'll get that far but you never know.....

The biggest obstacle is just a general lack of materials. On the other hand I'm not really looking to to speak the language, right now I'm just more looking into the grammar as much as possible and building vocabulary.

On the other languages:

Tamil : Already mentioned diglossia and some materials problems. Also my first exposure was in the context of a field methods class where I had two consultants (husband and wife) who were using very different phonologies (with disastrous consequences for my phonology write up).

Malayalam : I really had assumed that I would end up with Malayalam. Simpler orthography, less diglossia, high literacy, I liked the music (my favorite modern movie song is Kilichundan Mambazham) Pretty scenary (I'm a coastal person at heart)
But the materials I found just didn't ..... take. Working through them was a chore. One promising course with audio only used old orthography. Also the pronunciation is kind of off-putting especially the dental alveolar distinction (especially since it's apparently not written). How important is it anyway? I may come back to it, but I'm not sure.

Telegu : So so online materials but I have a very good dead tree grammar. Lots o' movies and I was thinking of it too. One thing I didn't know about (but which doesn't make me enthusiastic) is the conflict over Telangana vs the rest of the state and people pushing 'Telangana language' as ??? what an alternate standard? a separate language?

So my current plan is to see how far I can get with Kannada and if I can't get far enough I might go with Telugu or give Malayalam another try (especially if I can use a spelling pronunciation with the different t's and n's).

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-19, 9:47

I agree that Malayalam learning sources are bad, but most of them can be found on Google books (big grammar, learn M. in 30 days, progressive grammar of M., and more things)...As for the audio resources I have a Germany-made phrasbook with an audio CD (which features native speakers) and a basic vocabulary CDRom both of which I bought from the Amazon. As for the orthography, the older is more beautiful and there's a revival of it (now that type machines with limited characters are obsolete, and PCs with all characters possible are plentiful)...In reality, both spellings are used (and often mixed)...It can be even font depending, my browser used to give me only traditional spellings (but I changed it in the system to another font, and now it's modern :mrgreen: ).

I would love to learn Telugu, but the script is off putting (it looks like many small cows :mrgreen: ), and Kannada script is almost the same. I think Malayalam script is the most elegant (in a modern way), and Tamil is nice, but in an oldfashioned/quaint way. Even in the most traditional spelling, Malayalam conjuncts are easy to decrypt unlike Dev'naag'ri. :yep:
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-21, 12:28

I have a copy of An Intensive Course in Kannada by the Central Institute of Indian Languages and it seems to be one the the best textbook in a series of bad textbook.

It's not an awesome textbook, but it works well. The only thing is, you need to already know either the Kannada script or the Devanagari script. :?

I actually just found a site that sells quite a few of the books in the series as well as the audio (which I've been searching for) here:
http://www.dkagencies.com/Result.aspx?F ... =0.5883385

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby Michael » 2011-01-24, 4:02

I'm having to wait until WAC 2012 to resume Tamil..ஏனென்றால் நான் தமிழ் பல காதலிப்பேன் :( Kannada script almost totally resembles Telugu script :o Malayalam script though just looks like a genetic mutation of Tamil gone wrong :D
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-24, 10:32

Nah, Malayalam script is a derivative of the ancient Tulu script, different than Tamil. :wink:
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-03-02, 18:12

:?
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-03-09, 21:42

From another thread

Meera: "I think that Kannada is the most unappealing Indian langauge ... Kannada is not nice sounding at all, it sounds very harsh to me ... It also doesn't have that sing-songy thing that most Indian langauges have. "

Again, like pāmbu (TeneReef) the things you don't like about Kannada make it the most accessible Dravidian language for me. Malayalam and Telugu (both of which I'm still very interested in) too easily melt into a rapid fire, sing-songy blur of indistinguishable syllables (can the human tongue really negotiate the difference between dental, alveolar and retroflex consonants that rapidly?). The harsher, slightly slower sound of Kannada gives me more to grab onto and keeps me from falling into the nalamaḷapalaṭala abyss.

I also find myself interested lately in Oriya but have been strongly resisting (that has to be the worst script in India, besides non-Indian Arabic of course).

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-03-09, 21:49

"What professors in Bangalore think of teaching Kannada"

Hāvu (pāmbu in Kannada),

That might make more of an impression if you couldn't find native speakers of every single Indian language saying the same kind of thing. I found a story on an NZ person living in Kerala who says (basically) that he can't be bothered with learning such a pissant unimportant language as Malayalam (with presumed Malayalam speakers congratulating him on this).

Remember, I live in Poland, whose residents go out of their way to convince the outside world they don't care about their language (when nothing could be further from the truth).

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-03-10, 18:41

But,
Kerala has the highest percentage of official language speakers of any Indian state: 97% people in Kerala speak Malayalam.

In Karnataka, only 60 % of population speak Kannada.
On the coast, languages spoken are Tulu and Konkani; close to the Maharashtra border, it's Marathi, eastern Karnataka speaks Telugu. In neighborhoods of Bengaluru, Tamil has always been the predominant language, because that part of the state is next to Tamil Nadu.

In the city of Bangalore, Kannada is neglected, because 1. Bangalore is a city of commerce, business, technology and immigration; 2. English and Hindi/Urdu have the ''global'' preference, and Tamil and Telugu are spoken too (A Tamilian would never bother to learn Kannada; and there are many Tamils there).

So, I'd say that Kannada in the Dravidian family is just like Marathi in IndoAryan family: it has low appeal, low prestige, and therefore, very limited movie industry. Only 40 % of people in Mumbai can speak Marathi, similar to 45% of people in Bangalore who can speak Kannada. In Mumbai and Bengaluru, English and Hindi/Urdu seem to be preferred because both are ''panIndian cities'' with many people born in other parts of India, and they don't want to bother with the official language of the state (Marathi in the case of Maharashtra, and Kannada in the case of Karnataka). On the other hand, Marathi and Kannada seem to be strong in the central parts of the states: in Pune and Mysore the official languages of their states are not endangered.
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-03-10, 18:50

mafke wrote:"What professors in Bangalore think of teaching Kannada"

Hāvu (pāmbu in Kannada),

That might make more of an impression if you couldn't find native speakers of every single Indian language saying the same kind of thing. I found a story on an NZ person living in Kerala who says (basically) that he can't be bothered with learning such a pissant unimportant language as Malayalam (with presumed Malayalam speakers congratulating him on this).

Remember, I live in Poland, whose residents go out of their way to convince the outside world they don't care about their language (when nothing could be further from the truth).


To my ear, Malayalam sounds much more pleasant than Kiwi English. :rotfl:
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-03-11, 16:21

Who should I ask to have a flag icon added for Kannada?

Also, instead of the national Indian flag, it should be the unofficial but common Karnataka flag as seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada_flag

or here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01BIdMgtdDs


It should be easy to do, it's just like the Polish flag but yellow on top instead of white.

I think a Tamil flag would be nice too but I'm not sure if the red and black one is apolitical enough...

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby TeneReef » 2011-03-11, 20:22

For Indian languages, only Indian flag is provided.
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby mafke » 2011-03-11, 21:14

I know. I'm saying that's wrong and the Karnataka/Kannada flag should be provided too.

Lots of minority non-state languages have flags already, so there's no reason to not provide one when there is one in use (even if it's unofficial).

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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby Meera » 2011-03-15, 16:57

It would be nice if the all Indian languages had their own flag. My siggie would look prettier then :P
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Re: Kannada - ಕನ್ನಡ

Postby rmanoj » 2011-05-02, 8:33

I realise this is quite an old post but I just thought I'd clarify this

mafke wrote:Malayalam : I really had assumed that I would end up with Malayalam. Simpler orthography, less diglossia, high literacy, I liked the music (my favorite modern movie song is Kilichundan Mambazham) Pretty scenary (I'm a coastal person at heart)
But the materials I found just didn't ..... take. Working through them was a chore. One promising course with audio only used old orthography. Also the pronunciation is kind of off-putting especially the dental alveolar distinction (especially since it's apparently not written). How important is it anyway? I may come back to it, but I'm not sure.


The dental/ alveolar distinction isn't that important for the "n"s as they're mostly allophones (they do contrast in geminate form in a few words, although I can't think of any off the top of my head). You'll sound foreign, but still understandable (even Tamils who learn Malayalam don't seem to be able to do it properly, even though that contrast used to exist in their language and still does in writing). However, it's pretty important to distinguish the "t"s - it'll sound extremely strange if you don't.

And the old orthography is so much better than the new one, which I consider a bit soulless.

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Kannada (ಕನ್ನಡ)

Postby jignasi » 2012-06-07, 14:26

Ellarigoo namaskara,

Hello folks, I am vinay and I would like to help those who want to learn 'kannada'. I think there are very limited resources on the internet about this language, however if anybody has any specific question about kannada, I am here to help you. And I take this opportunity to make friends and learn other languages as well.

Just to give some introduction to kannada , it is the language spoken by around 55 million people in the state of karnataka in India. It is the oldest language of India after Sanskrit and Tamil with rich heritage of literature. It belongs to Dravidian language family. It is a highly phonetic language, I mean you can write exactly what you say and you will not be in an ambiguity as to whether what you have written also be pronounced in a different way or not. If you plan to visit Bangalore (Bengaluru) also called as silicon city of India, IT hub etc, then knowing at least a bit of kannada will be of some help. It has 49 alphabets, 15 are vowels called swaragaLu and 34 consonants called vyanjanagaLu.

As any other language has kannada also has many dialects, the standard kannada is the kannada spoken in the districts of Bangalore, Tumkur, Kolar, Mysore, Hassan, Shimoga and is called rajagannada. One interesting fact about kannada dialect is people of this region (southern and south eastern part of karnataka) struggle to understand the kannada spoken in the districts of Hubli, Haveri, Raichur, Gulbarga, Bijapur, Bidar, Belgaum and Bagalkote (which is influenced by Marathi langauge), however people living in these areas can understand southern kannada because the education syllabus of state government is in the standard kannada spoken in Bangalore.

Ok let me stop here and continue with learning kannada.

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Re: Kannada (ಕನ್ನಡ)

Postby Meera » 2012-06-09, 17:14

Hello Vinay! It would be great to learn some Kannada, its one of the Dravdivian I never studdied due to lack of resources! It would be great to learn some of it :mrgreen:
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